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New ideas to nerf skavens (MUCH NEEDED)

EquixEquix Registered Users Posts: 792
Everyone knows skaven have been the most pampered and overpowered race in warhammer 2 and they need some large nerfs, but I dont want skaven players to get sad so I will purpose here small fixes and loreful little nerfs:

-When rats are charged by chivalry or flying units, skaven should lose a temporary -4 to leadership and make a morale check or enter in a special panic stance, when skaven are on special panic stance they cant shoot or fight back for three minutes but they gain +2 to melee defense because they try madly to evade.

-Skaven need to change food mechancs for a warpstone mining and searching mechanics, it would be a lot more fun and lorewise, then with warpstone they would pay an high rent every month to keep all machines and ranged weapons 100% effective, and when they lack in warpstone their effectivity drops slowly by -10 each turn until it drops to 20% max. No more infinite warpstone for skaven.

-When a LL is low in warpstone, he will receive assasination attemps with a low probability to kill him by their own troops.



My heart is for Nagash.
My dreams are made of Elves..
And my soul always sides with ogres, goblins and beastmen.

Amazons and Cathay are coming!
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Comments

  • misterZmisterZ Registered Users Posts: 353
    Everyone knows skaven have been the most pampered and overpowered race in warhammer 2

    If forget about HE... and like all ordertide factions... and rite of the primal glory... and undead in hands of players...
    I bet it's one more "IMRIK IS SO HARD" case
  • SchwarzhelmSchwarzhelm Registered Users Posts: 1,217
    The only thing I think Skaven need to have changed is the ambush.
    On open field OK but it makes no sense that they can ambush a sieging army, this is annoying as hell.

  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 2,443
    Skaven op hhhhhhhwat.
  • sieahsieah Registered Users Posts: 967
    All horrible ideas.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,746
    Everyone knows Skaven have been treated the worse.

    No rat tank, no warp dragon, not enough RoR infantry, poor mechanics for the warlord clans..
  • redknight83redknight83 Registered Users Posts: 181
    No to skaven nerfs, no, no
  • VildvargVildvarg Registered Users Posts: 401
  • EquixEquix Registered Users Posts: 792
    I love goblins, they still feel right as they should be, thats not the case of skaven, they seem chaos furry elves, they arent fun to play because they have everyt toy, everything and everything without drawbacks, they feel to much powerfull to be hidden, its ilogical, overpowered and unreasonable as skaven have been portrayed from tt

    makes no sense to play a hidden race with all units at the top of all races in power ranks


    My heart is for Nagash.
    My dreams are made of Elves..
    And my soul always sides with ogres, goblins and beastmen.

    Amazons and Cathay are coming!
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 3,391
    Everyone know that the travesty that is "No Skaven content this YEAR" is a real thing and we all as sensible beings should rally around rectifying that issue.....


    Even beings of the "Estalian Angelic persuasion" should join the rightful furry crusade.
  • EquixEquix Registered Users Posts: 792
    edited May 27
    Equix said:

    I love goblins, they still feel right as they should be, thats not the case of skaven, they seem chaos furry elves, they arent fun to play because they have everyt toy, everything and everything without drawbacks, they feel to much powerfull to be hidden, its ilogical, overpowered and unreasonable as skaven have been portrayed from tt

    makes no sense to play a hidden race with all units at the top of all races in power ranks

    very much this, try change my mind

    What are the drawbacks of playing skaven? they got the most overpowered mechanics and the most overpowered machines I have seen in warhammer series. Try tomake any rank of warhammer unit types without mentioning skaven on the first, second or third rank of power for everything


    My heart is for Nagash.
    My dreams are made of Elves..
    And my soul always sides with ogres, goblins and beastmen.

    Amazons and Cathay are coming!
  • OspreyOsprey Registered Users Posts: 510
    It seems like you never played tabletop, Skavens were always OP. Long range Jezzails killing cavalry or rattling guns obliterating any infantry. Skavens are OK right now.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 3,391
    After podering about it though i think the real incoming nerf have to be for the Wood Elves, it can´t be right that they shall have the tankiest multiple entity unit AND the best archer unit in game.....


    #NerfWoodElves2020

    #WoodElvesAreTooGood

    #WoodElvesShouldNotBeTheMasterRace
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 3,391
    #SkavenDeserveJustice
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 2,501
    ROMOBOY said:

    Okay guys. He doesn’t deserve to be banned just because we feel he has a bad opinion. Let’s stop with all the personal remarks and just rebut his ideas.

    Having a bad opinion is one thing; but spamming constantly with against-the-grain ideas incessantly is another. It'd be like if the mods allowed people to make "When is Halo factions getting into the game" topics.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,376
    Are Skaven good? Absolutely they are. Are they OP? Eh, no, I would say not. I wouldn't even say they're one of the best and most powerful factions.
    I know in campaign I've run into the issue of them being able to crank out stack faster than I couple kill.
    But that's more a product of them having super cheap stuff and the AI getting stupid economy buffs.

    Coming at it from a MP perspective (to use as an example, hold onto your butts), I usually play Lizardmen and Skaven are a hell of a faction to beat. It's still doable though, and Lizardmen generally struggle against ranged-heavy factions with lots of AP, like Dark Elves and Vampire Coast. Other factions get absolutely crumped by Lizardmen most of the time, especially Bretonnia. And other factions will completely trash the Skaven. I usually do well with the High Elves, for example.

    The nerfs you propose are also unreasonable. Losing control of your units for three minutes if charged by cavalry or flying units would be flat out broken and would make the Skaven completely useless. Bring a bunch of cav because the Skaven can't shoot all of them, cycle charge until all units are disable for three minutes, and that's the game. If you thought even for a minute that rampage wasn't a fun mechanic, this blows that way out of the water. So yes, if you want to make Skaven the unquestionably worst faction in the game this would be a good idea. I dunno what issue you have with the Skaven but they just aren't as OP as these nerfs would suggest.

    For the second suggestion you're basically talking about the income system that already exists. Just it's called gold instead of warpstone. Losing your LL for five turns just because you went in the red also is not a very fun mechanic or one that makes sense.
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 2,817
    Equix said:

    I love goblins, they still feel right as they should be, thats not the case of skaven, they seem chaos furry elves

    Skaven are "Chaos furry elves"?????
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed, Shadow King
    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
    "Draconic murder ferret attack dog." - Ben1990 describing Shard Dragons.
  • EquixEquix Registered Users Posts: 792

    Are Skaven good? Absolutely they are. Are they OP? Eh, no, I would say not. I wouldn't even say they're one of the best and most powerful factions.
    I know in campaign I've run into the issue of them being able to crank out stack faster than I couple kill.
    But that's more a product of them having super cheap stuff and the AI getting stupid economy buffs.

    Coming at it from a MP perspective (to use as an example, hold onto your butts), I usually play Lizardmen and Skaven are a hell of a faction to beat. It's still doable though, and Lizardmen generally struggle against ranged-heavy factions with lots of AP, like Dark Elves and Vampire Coast. Other factions get absolutely crumped by Lizardmen most of the time, especially Bretonnia. And other factions will completely trash the Skaven. I usually do well with the High Elves, for example.

    The nerfs you propose are also unreasonable. Losing control of your units for three minutes if charged by cavalry or flying units would be flat out broken and would make the Skaven completely useless. Bring a bunch of cav because the Skaven can't shoot all of them, cycle charge until all units are disable for three minutes, and that's the game. If you thought even for a minute that rampage wasn't a fun mechanic, this blows that way out of the water. So yes, if you want to make Skaven the unquestionably worst faction in the game this would be a good idea. I dunno what issue you have with the Skaven but they just aren't as OP as these nerfs would suggest.

    For the second suggestion you're basically talking about the income system that already exists. Just it's called gold instead of warpstone. Losing your LL for five turns just because you went in the red also is not a very fun mechanic or one that makes sense.

    Are Skaven good? Absolutely they are. Are they OP? Eh, no, I would say not. I wouldn't even say they're one of the best and most powerful factions.
    I know in campaign I've run into the issue of them being able to crank out stack faster than I couple kill.
    But that's more a product of them having super cheap stuff and the AI getting stupid economy buffs.

    Coming at it from a MP perspective (to use as an example, hold onto your butts), I usually play Lizardmen and Skaven are a hell of a faction to beat. It's still doable though, and Lizardmen generally struggle against ranged-heavy factions with lots of AP, like Dark Elves and Vampire Coast. Other factions get absolutely crumped by Lizardmen most of the time, especially Bretonnia. And other factions will completely trash the Skaven. I usually do well with the High Elves, for example.

    The nerfs you propose are also unreasonable. Losing control of your units for three minutes if charged by cavalry or flying units would be flat out broken and would make the Skaven completely useless. Bring a bunch of cav because the Skaven can't shoot all of them, cycle charge until all units are disable for three minutes, and that's the game. If you thought even for a minute that rampage wasn't a fun mechanic, this blows that way out of the water. So yes, if you want to make Skaven the unquestionably worst faction in the game this would be a good idea. I dunno what issue you have with the Skaven but they just aren't as OP as these nerfs would suggest.

    For the second suggestion you're basically talking about the income system that already exists. Just it's called gold instead of warpstone. Losing your LL for five turns just because you went in the red also is not a very fun mechanic or one that makes sense.

    I dont agree but I respect your arguements. How could be fun and feel skaven really need to be usually hidden? Actually makes no sense they are even stronger than HE and also outnumbering with higher quality than VC, how thats not overpowered?


    My heart is for Nagash.
    My dreams are made of Elves..
    And my soul always sides with ogres, goblins and beastmen.

    Amazons and Cathay are coming!
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,376
    Equix said:

    Are Skaven good? Absolutely they are. Are they OP? Eh, no, I would say not. I wouldn't even say they're one of the best and most powerful factions.
    I know in campaign I've run into the issue of them being able to crank out stack faster than I couple kill.
    But that's more a product of them having super cheap stuff and the AI getting stupid economy buffs.

    Coming at it from a MP perspective (to use as an example, hold onto your butts), I usually play Lizardmen and Skaven are a hell of a faction to beat. It's still doable though, and Lizardmen generally struggle against ranged-heavy factions with lots of AP, like Dark Elves and Vampire Coast. Other factions get absolutely crumped by Lizardmen most of the time, especially Bretonnia. And other factions will completely trash the Skaven. I usually do well with the High Elves, for example.

    The nerfs you propose are also unreasonable. Losing control of your units for three minutes if charged by cavalry or flying units would be flat out broken and would make the Skaven completely useless. Bring a bunch of cav because the Skaven can't shoot all of them, cycle charge until all units are disable for three minutes, and that's the game. If you thought even for a minute that rampage wasn't a fun mechanic, this blows that way out of the water. So yes, if you want to make Skaven the unquestionably worst faction in the game this would be a good idea. I dunno what issue you have with the Skaven but they just aren't as OP as these nerfs would suggest.

    For the second suggestion you're basically talking about the income system that already exists. Just it's called gold instead of warpstone. Losing your LL for five turns just because you went in the red also is not a very fun mechanic or one that makes sense.

    I dont agree but I respect your arguements. How could be fun and feel skaven really need to be usually hidden? Actually makes no sense they are even stronger than HE and also outnumbering with higher quality than VC, how thats not overpowered?
    Stronger than the HE in what way? I'm not sure I follow.

    Skaven are supposed to outnumber VC. They're the most numerous race, and there are simply more Skaven than most all necromancers or vampire could manage to raise in undead. Vampire Count (or Vampire Coast) also have worse units than everyone. It's part of them having good healing and never breaking. That stat different can easily be offset with a Necromancer hero, any Lord, Corpse Cart, or Mortis Engine as well, essentially turning them into unbreakable versions of whatever equivalent you're facing. In my experience, the two Vampire factions are superior to the Skaven, probably two of the best if not the best in the game, but they're harder to use correctly.

    I guess a good question would be whether you're referring to campaign, MP, or both in general as that might change a few things.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,905
    Knew whom posted it before I even walked in.

    Always think it's trolling given the nature ofnthenreplies but sometimes I wonder..
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,153
    Late game they can roll over pretty much everything.

    The ambush attack is just that powerful and they are the only faction that can rely leverage it against anyone. Beastmen are just there to die while Alith anar gets assimilated.

    Offensive ambush rely shouldn't work on encamped armies.

    The most annoying thing is to fight them late game as dwarfs. You do not have the tools to deal well with them at all. A line of Rattlinguns is pretty much your worst nightmare and while your arty holds up decently it can not compensate for the skaven power, especially if they get an ambush off.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 3,391
    Oh how the sweet tears of Skaven haters are sweet as honey......

    Almost as sweet as the Mono hater tears.....

    Almost.....
  • TheRealIronJazZTheRealIronJazZ Registered Users Posts: 178
    Equix said:

    Everyone knows skaven have been the most pampered and overpowered race in warhammer 2 and they need some large nerfs, but I dont want skaven players to get sad so I will purpose here small fixes and loreful little nerfs





    "Another year has passed in exile, another debt of blood for the usurpers in Ulthuan.
    We do not forgive, and we do not forget.
    We are the people of ice and darkness, sustained by our hate."
  • manpersalmanpersal Registered Users Posts: 648
    Equix said:

    Everyone knows skaven have been the most pampered and overpowered race in warhammer 2 and they need some large nerfs, but I dont want skaven players to get sad so I will purpose here small fixes and loreful little nerfs:

    -When rats are charged by chivalry or flying units, skaven should lose a temporary -4 to leadership and make a morale check or enter in a special panic stance, when skaven are on special panic stance they cant shoot or fight back for three minutes but they gain +2 to melee defense because they try madly to evade.

    -Skaven need to change food mechancs for a warpstone mining and searching mechanics, it would be a lot more fun and lorewise, then with warpstone they would pay an high rent every month to keep all machines and ranged weapons 100% effective, and when they lack in warpstone their effectivity drops slowly by -10 each turn until it drops to 20% max. No more infinite warpstone for skaven.

    -When a LL is low in warpstone, he will receive assasination attemps with a low probability to kill him by their own troops.

    Just no. Skaven can be very annoying but what you're proposing make less enjoyable.

    If anything, nerf the dammage of their of their gimmicks, but I'd rather keep them as they are. They're very manageable, especially on open fields.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,616
    Is there something like a hardware ban for forums, so equix can never return?
  • TheRealIronJazZTheRealIronJazZ Registered Users Posts: 178

    Skaven and Grenskins are two of the easiest battle experiences I have had in Total War. Some of their units and abilities are so cartoonishly overpowered that they feel like exploits.

    Looking at the comments here, it seems that Skaven players are just bad at strategy games. Not really surprising, as being an obsessive "fan" of sub-human rat creatures that live in caves and constantly repeat themselves, is not a sign of intelligence.

    Talkin' about intelligence... Ratppl. is technically the most most advanced faction in the whole setting you worm-maggot yes yes. o.O

    "Another year has passed in exile, another debt of blood for the usurpers in Ulthuan.
    We do not forgive, and we do not forget.
    We are the people of ice and darkness, sustained by our hate."
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 4,541

    Skaven and Grenskins are two of the easiest battle experiences I have had in Total War. Some of their units and abilities are so cartoonishly overpowered that they feel like exploits.

    Looking at the comments here, it seems that Skaven players are just bad at strategy games. Not really surprising, as being an obsessive "fan" of sub-human rat creatures that live in caves and constantly repeat themselves, is not a sign of intelligence.

    Ah yes, because no other race has extremely powerful unit they can field that make the game a joke when deployed en masse. Star Dragons and/or Sisters of Avalorn, Black Dragons Doomfires and high tier DE infantry, Chosen and Shaggoths, Carnosaurs and Ancient Stegadons, Sphynxes, Necrofex, Mammoths; all of these units are pretty tame really and cannot compare to what the Skaven can field.

    And as to abilities when used against the AI at least nothing compares to Vortexes (and Wind of Death) for kills - spellcasters reliably can rack up more kills than Ikkits nuke in many situations.
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered Users Posts: 1,079
    Imagine actually getting annoyed at good ole' Equix.

    Believe in humanity!
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 3,913
    I do agree that skaven are overpowered, but so are high elves and maybe now Greenskins. It’s a general power creep that ruins the game and makes late game Arcady
  • DaruwindDaruwind Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 541
    Equix = Samuel88 ? O.o
  • IndefatigableIndefatigable Registered Users Posts: 35
    I'll just say "No" and leave it at that.

    I find food management annoying enough in some campaigns without adding other rules to the Skaven. Why should Skaven be the only faction affected in these ways?
This discussion has been closed.