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Greenskins Suggestions Skills and Tech

NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
New greenskin technologies that apply to goblins do not affect night goblins. I can understand they do not act on wolf riders, spiders and squiggles this is cavalry, although still it does not make sense given their stats. But the night goblins? With an upgrade of +7 armor and a bonus from the Shaman for +15 + improvement for scrap, we have 72 armor goblins versus 15 armor night goblins. In the compartment that goblins have 10% more replenishment from technologies that, again, do not work on night ones, it makes no sense to take night ones at all. They lose in stats, they lose in replenishment, attack and defense. They cannot be upgraded for scrap. Perhaps you will make sure that goblin technology is applied to all goblin squads and not just to spears and arrows.

The second problem. Skarsnik and Goblin Lord. They had a skill that increased by +12 attack for goblins and night goblins, you replaced it with +6 attack and + 20% charge for night goblins! 20% charge for goblins? You are masters of jokes. Moreover, the Shaman now has +6 attacks and +15 armor skill. Perhaps to all goblin Lords, like Shaman, Skarsnik and Goblin Lord, will you give 1 skill that gives ALL GOBLINS +6 attack and 15 armor?

After all, 20% of the charge gives a total of 16 charge bonus, which is terribly small, especially for goblins which are used as a meat shield, and not the unit that cuts into the enemy from the charge. It just doesn't make sense. A meat shield needs survival, not a charge. And I hope you reconsider the attitude to the technologies and skills of the Lords so that they increase the efficiency of all goblin infantry, and not spend time studying heaps of technologies that, as a result, give a bonus to 2 units, making their higher tier counterparts useless.

Comments

  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081
    Grom brought a normal goblins power creep that's all, now other greenskins need more updates.
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    Im not talking about Grom at all. Im talking about TECH tree and Shaman Skill update vs Skarsnik and Gobos Warbos nerfed skill. Yes, of course it’s **** that only Thunder can buff an army. And in technology there is only 1 improvement by +2 to attack the orcs, which is generally perceived as a joke. But this post is not dedicated to this topic. Although the greenskins really need a little more buffs. Than 1 to +2 for orcs and 7 pieces for goblins which in total give the same stat stats as much 1 improvement in other races, or even less.
  • goremandgoremand Registered Users Posts: 108
    I think the point is to make low-tier goblins relevant later in the game. If all bonuses apply equally why would ever use regular goblins over night goblins?
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    edited May 29
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    The problem is that you won’t recruit night goblins in the late stages of the game, especially if you play at high difficulty levels. On L / VH, the AI ​​has such bonuses to stats that your armies in the late game consist of black orcs, and catap + spider moms.
    Now there is no reason at all to take night goblins, absolutely not what. They wildly lose stats to ordinary goblins. You can drag a maximum of 1 squad of fanatics for spinning loons.
    Regular goblins are replaced faster, and stats are higher. Why take the night goblins? They may not be a meat shield, but they do not have enough defense and damage to be an attacking unit. As a result, in any case you will use nasty skulkers for running raids, but as goblin meat.

    https://screenshare.ru/O1K7zulK
    https://screenshare.ru/AFSNr3GV
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    The problem is that you won’t recruit night goblins in the late stages of the game, especially if you play at high difficulty levels. On L / VH, the AI ​​has such bonuses to stats that your armies in the late game consist of black orcs, and catap + spider moms.
    Now there is no reason at all to take night goblins, absolutely not what. They wildly lose stats to ordinary goblins. You can drag a maximum of 1 squad of fanatics for spinning loons.
    Regular goblins are replaced faster, and stats are higher. Why take the night goblins? They may not be a meat shield, but they do not have enough defense and damage to be an attacking unit. As a result, in any case you will use nasty skulkers for running raids, but as goblin meat.

    https://screenshare.ru/O1K7zulK
    https://screenshare.ru/AFSNr3GV

    Check screenshots. Full tech goblins and nightgoblins + goblin shaman skills. Just why do you pick night goblins?
  • goremandgoremand Registered Users Posts: 108
    Nirgalo said:

    The problem is that you won’t recruit night goblins in the late stages of the game, especially if you play at high difficulty levels. On L / VH, the AI ​​has such bonuses to stats that your armies in the late game consist of black orcs, and catap + spider moms.
    Now there is no reason at all to take night goblins, absolutely not what. They wildly lose stats to ordinary goblins. You can drag a maximum of 1 squad of fanatics for spinning loons.
    Regular goblins are replaced faster, and stats are higher. Why take the night goblins? They may not be a meat shield, but they do not have enough defense and damage to be an attacking unit. As a result, in any case you will use nasty skulkers for running raids, but as goblin meat.

    https://screenshare.ru/O1K7zulK
    https://screenshare.ru/AFSNr3GV

    Check screenshots. Full tech goblins and nightgoblins + goblin shaman skills. Just why do you pick night goblins?

    I have to agree those goblins are overtuned, especially the armor. I think that scrap upgrade should be be replaced with something else, and the armor skills nerfed. But other than that it's not so bad, night goblins still have poison and spinning loons.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081
    edited May 29
    Nirgalo said:

    The problem is that you won’t recruit night goblins in the late stages of the game, especially if you play at high difficulty levels. On L / VH, the AI ​​has such bonuses to stats that your armies in the late game consist of black orcs, and catap + spider moms.
    Now there is no reason at all to take night goblins, absolutely not what. They wildly lose stats to ordinary goblins. You can drag a maximum of 1 squad of fanatics for spinning loons.
    Regular goblins are replaced faster, and stats are higher. Why take the night goblins? They may not be a meat shield, but they do not have enough defense and damage to be an attacking unit. As a result, in any case you will use nasty skulkers for running raids, but as goblin meat.

    https://screenshare.ru/O1K7zulK
    https://screenshare.ru/AFSNr3GV

    Check screenshots. Full tech goblins and nightgoblins + goblin shaman skills. Just why do you pick night goblins?

    That Power Creep has come with the Grom DLC, it's not a coincidence, it's make sense for Grom to buff Normal Goblins more, Grom is not a Night Goblin, but it don't make sense when even in Night Goblin Lords Armies the Night Goblin Units are inferior. By the way in your pictures the Lord is a Normal Goblin Great Shaman, a Night Goblin Great Shaman was not yet added to the game, to really Showcase the Absurd you should use a Night Goblin Warboss, Generic Night Goblin Warboss or Skarsnik.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerCreep
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    edited May 29
    Tayvar said:

    Nirgalo said:

    The problem is that you won’t recruit night goblins in the late stages of the game, especially if you play at high difficulty levels. On L / VH, the AI ​​has such bonuses to stats that your armies in the late game consist of black orcs, and catap + spider moms.
    Now there is no reason at all to take night goblins, absolutely not what. They wildly lose stats to ordinary goblins. You can drag a maximum of 1 squad of fanatics for spinning loons.
    Regular goblins are replaced faster, and stats are higher. Why take the night goblins? They may not be a meat shield, but they do not have enough defense and damage to be an attacking unit. As a result, in any case you will use nasty skulkers for running raids, but as goblin meat.

    https://screenshare.ru/O1K7zulK
    https://screenshare.ru/AFSNr3GV

    Check screenshots. Full tech goblins and nightgoblins + goblin shaman skills. Just why do you pick night goblins?

    That Power Creep has come with the Grom DLC, it's not a coincidence, it's make sense for Grom to buff Normal Goblins more, Grom is not a Night Goblin, but it don't make sense when even in Night Goblin Lords Armies the Night Goblin Units are inferior. By the way in your pictures the Lord is a Normal Goblin Shaman, a Night Goblin Shaman was not yet added to the game, to really Showcase the Absurd you should use a Night Goblin Warboss, Generic Night Goblin Warboss or Skarsnik.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerCreep
    Yes! The only reason you see in the screenshot of the Goblin shaman is that he has a skill of +15 armor and +6 attack versus +6 attack and a useless + 20% charge for Night Goblin Warboss and Scarsnick. And one of the topics of this post is precisely that the Goblin shaman is much more effective in buffing the army than the Leader of the night goblins and Skarsnik. Which does not make sense.

    The poison is cool, of course, but it does not cover such a wild difference in stats, and given that you use goblins as meat in any case, and that the nasty skulkers fight better, there is no reason to take night goblins in principle. 1 unit is enough to clean the line of contact with spinning loons.

    Gobos Archers have armor pearcing upgrade vs Range or Reload Night Gobos Archers = 14 dmg + 5 ap vs 14 and 1 = Common Gobos Win too. + Dont forget that Common Gobos have lower upkeep, +10% more replacement, more moral and reg ANY buildings at all. which at high difficulty levels is of paramount importance.

    No point at night gobos at all. If technologies were applied to both goblins and night goblins, both would have a place in the roster. The stats weren’t so much higher and the poison would have covered this difference. Then it would make sense to take night goblins. But since the same shaman gives far more buffs to ordinary goblins, and other lords cannot give the same night goblins, this simply kills them. At the same time, upgrades for scrap are much more useful for ordinary goblins than for night ones.

    PS: Same army. Same turn. Same units. Replaced Gobos Shaman to Night Gobos Warboss (Same skill as Skarsnick). We have +6 attack to night gobos (WOW) and lose -15 armor to Nasty Skulkers, Gobos Archers, Gobos with spears AND it still does not make the night goblins any acceptable.
    https://screenshare.ru/lspBPuFE
    https://screenshare.ru/pGx3EaVh
    https://screenshare.ru/rHNxj7nE
    Post edited by Nirgalo on
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 606
    edited May 30
    Nirgalo said:

    PS: Same army. Same turn. Same units. Replaced Gobos Shaman to Night Gobos Warboss (Same skill as Skarsnick). We have +6 attack to night gobos (WOW) and lose -15 armor to Nasty Skulkers, Gobos Archers, Gobos with spears AND it still does not make the night goblins any acceptable.
    https://screenshare.ru/lspBPuFE
    https://screenshare.ru/pGx3EaVh
    https://screenshare.ru/rHNxj7nE

    Your MA went up by 6 on the Night Goblins.

    Honestly, I think CA needs to make sure Grom can use Night Goblins if he wants to by providing both unique +6 MA attack bonuses to Night Goblins. I am a little less on the armor or the +10AL.

    I also agree that the tech bonuses should impact both units. If anything the Orc tech is the opposite and all the variation orcs have extra tech the Orc unit isn't benefiting from like 'Eavy Clubs.
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    edited May 30
    forum bugged as game... when editing, the post is deleted. And does not appear until the publication of a new one.
    Post edited by Nirgalo on
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    Bastilean said:

    Nirgalo said:

    PS: Same army. Same turn. Same units. Replaced Gobos Shaman to Night Gobos Warboss (Same skill as Skarsnick). We have +6 attack to night gobos (WOW) and lose -15 armor to Nasty Skulkers, Gobos Archers, Gobos with spears AND it still does not make the night goblins any acceptable.
    https://screenshare.ru/lspBPuFE
    https://screenshare.ru/pGx3EaVh
    https://screenshare.ru/rHNxj7nE

    Your MA went up by 6 on the Night Goblins.

    Honestly, I think CA needs to make sure Grom can use Night Goblins if he wants to by providing both unique +6 MA attack bonuses to Night Goblins. I am a little less on the armor or the +10AL.

    I also agree that the tech bonuses should impact both units. If anything the Orc tech is the opposite and all the variation orcs have extra tech the Orc unit isn't benefiting from like 'Eavy Clubs.
    As I wrote above, this is not about Grom. Grom has huge buffs from his cauldron, he is completely okay. 10 AL is his unique feature, let him stay.

    Yes, night goblins received +6 MA when changing lords. But it was precisely about the fact that after the DLC and the rework of the greenskins, they nerfed the Night Gobos Warboss and Scarsnik uniq skill. Previously, their unique buff gave +12 MA for goblins and night goblins, which made them quite playable even in the later stages of the game, replacing it with +6 ma and useless + 20% charge that goblins do not need. All this against the background of the fact that the Goblin Shaman (the new lord) himself can give out +6 MA to goblins and +15 armor makes him the only acceptable option among NOT legendary lords. Since this buff is much stronger than +6 MA and + 20% charge.

    The proposal was to give all the GOBLIN Lords (Night Goblin Boss and Skarsnik) as well as the Goblin Shaman skill +6 MA and +15 armor to ALL GOBLINS and NIGHT GOBLINS. Or leave them unique and return the old skill that gave +12 MA for night goblins! As well as greenskin technology should be applied to all goblins.

    The main problem is that we compare T3-T4 units with Non-T units that do not even require buildings. And they, under the influence of technology and the Shaman Goblin, are far superior to the Night Goblins. At the same time, the Night Goblin Boss and Skarsnik who are supposed to buff the Night Goblins now do not have any really useful or powerful buffs for them.

    Yes, I completely agree that the Orcs were simply destroyed. One, one! One technology that gives +2 MA and 3 morale is just ridiculous. Even imperial swordsmen with their technological tree surpass the Orc infantry in all respects, which makes no sense at all. Prior to the technological tree’s revolution, they had at least +5 MA and +20 armor, and now they don’t. All orcs have extremely nightmarish stats. Horrible melee defense, horrible attack, horrible armor indicator. This is just a piece of meat. Diluted goblin is stronger than orc infantry. And oh yes, how could I forget about the Orc of the Lord, which is some kind of generated slag, which does not even have a single unique buff for the army. Which makes him the worst lord in the game.

    Even ElichTV who never entered into controversy wrote a post about this on Redit. Link to the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/gpp7ki/make_orc_boyz_great_for_the_first_time/

    It seems to me that the СAs simply hate this race and there are no other reasons to mock it.
  • ferundalferundal Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 77
    edited May 31
    First of all - change Skarsnik/Goblin boss +20% charge into +20 charge
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  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    edited May 31
    ferundal said:

    First of all - change Skarsnik/Goblin boss +20% charge into +20 charge

    oh yee... gobos really need charge.... And of course, after that, the night goblins will become useful. Lol
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 2,875
    I do find that the tech tree doesn t buff orc boys enough. They lose to clan rats in campaign.
  • NirgaloNirgalo Registered Users Posts: 60
    TeNoSkill said:

    I do find that the tech tree doesn t buff orc boys enough. They lose to clan rats in campaign.

    yep. Orc boyz now trash tier units. Like a big uns and black orcs... lol. I dont undestand why CA do it. 28 mdef black ork.
    The СA is trying to tell us that the orcs do not know how to defend themselves at all, which is extremely stupid. Indeed, this does not work in the campaign. Playing on L / VH where the AI ​​has significant buffs for battle stats, the Black Orcs with their small MA and MD are just meat for most anti-infantry units. And you, as a player, do not like how you can break them down to sane efficiency. Yes, someone can say: Man, they have 80 dmg. But who cares how much dmg they have if their little MA is completely covered by the MD even of imperial swordsmen! Which means the chance to hit the target is minimal (that is, 10%, there can be less). And at 28 MD, ALL UNITS IN THE GAME easy hit them. This is if you ever wondered why the orcs, having such a high Damage, are fighting so darn badly. Yes, everything just doesn’t hit the target, but everything hits them.

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