Confederation - Breakaway Regions

Ephraim_Dalton · June 26

Confederation speeds up the snowballing and steamrolling in this game which is already a huge problem on its own, but what if confederating factions only guaranteed you the core regions of whatever faction you absorb? So let's say you're Malekith and want to take over Har Ganeth, who have expanded to the eastern tip of Naggarond. You confederate them but only Har Ganeth's core province is guaranteed to join your empire, the former lands of the other two factions have a 33% chance (75% if the former lands were from another race) of breaking away and declaring independence. You then get the choice of pressing your claim and be immediately at war with them or leave them be which restores the former factions and gives you a small diplomacy boost.

And yes, that should go for the AI too.

Selakah · June 26

In general, I'd rather each race have a confederation mechanic that makes sense.

I really like how the handled the Empire confederation mechanics, for example. It takes a while to absorb the full Empire, and there is a real downside to confederating too fast. The Norscan mechanic also makes sense, but I'm not too happy with the way it was directly copy pasted for the Greenskins - it makes it too easy to absorb large swaths of land by sniping a Legendary Lord.

Typhenirwolf · June 27

If they build up the rebellion mechanic more, it's basically the opposite of confederation. The problem right now is that Rebel factions cannot do diplomacy of any kind. If would be neat if Rebels could somehow achieve diplomatic status, should they be left to their own devices long enough.

Thomassini · June 27

What if said faction lost it's "core" territory? It happens a lot inside the Empire, minors lose a lot of their original territory and then Reikland confederates them.

While thinking about it, they should also change Plunge into Anarchy in the same vein. So instead of banishing the whole faction into Nether-realm, and spawning millions of generic rebels, the "core" of that faction should be untouchable, while all the other territories should either outright secede forming real factions (not rebels for God's sake!) or there should be very strong factionalized rebels spawning in each non-core city / province.

daelin4 · June 27

I'd rather we get new confederation methods. The old style of diplomatic "hey join my faction here's a billion gold" if the real problem- it's universal, it's often an annoying AI stunt when a neutral takes over a city you're besieging, and most of the time done for completionist sake; Dwarfs of any faction you play will only really confederate mid-late game when you're tired of steamrolling and just trying to finish the campaign bucket list.

Different races should at least utilize the newer defeat-legendarylord-dilemma confederation event: you can only confederate if certain conditions are met (and this time, it's not a vague amount of gold).

Dark Elfs can confederate by a large amount of slaves and gold for a normal transition; the loyalty system however means the Legendary Lords are still liable to rebel, so you gotta make them happy and hopefully confederate them earlier in the campaign so their high levels won't be an impediment.

Dwarfs can get special Grudge Dilemma events that spawn missions of more moderate difficulty that, once removed, trigger an event for the host faction to confederate; you can opt out of the events when they first trigger and they can spawn again, but the grudge effect will serve as a way to (dis)incentivize confederating with those small easier factions. It also means you gotta go around earning them instead of just sitting around accumulating gold.
Some additional requirements include Oathgold cost and some workarounds can exist as well; for instance, Zhufbar can have some of the requriements removed if you build an Engineer's Guild structure, which requires a tier 4 settlement.

The Lizardmen player can confederate when they have defeated a VC, Chaos, Norsca, Dark Elf or Skaven Legendary Lord, or destroyed a faction belonging to these races, that the target faction was at war with. Owning home regions of these factions (in the event they are suffering defeats and are losing territories by enemies other than you) also make it easier to confederate.
If you destroy one of each of the above mentioned races, you can unlock the ability to confederate with Nakai.

Some more universal changes to confederation, is that the faction is more likely to confederate through diplomacy; this allows players a chance to save a faction and its LL character while its in dire straits.

Tayvar · June 27

It's called "confederation" but it's actually annexation, as CA acknowledged in Total War: Three Kingdoms.

Arthas_Menethil · June 27

Selakah said:
In general, I'd rather each race have a confederation mechanic that makes sense.

I really like how the handled the Empire confederation mechanics, for example. It takes a while to absorb the full Empire, and there is a real downside to confederating too fast. The Norscan mechanic also makes sense, but I'm not too happy with the way it was directly copy pasted for the Greenskins - it makes it too easy to absorb large swaths of land by sniping a Legendary Lord.

"The Norscan mechanic also makes sense, but I'm not too happy with the way it was directly copy pasted for the Greenskins"
TBF that's because the Norscan Mechanic was very very fitting for the Greenskins.

Ethorin · June 27

daelin4 said:

Dark Elfs can confederate by a large amount of slaves and gold for a normal transition; the loyalty system however means the Legendary Lords are still liable to rebel, so you gotta make them happy and hopefully confederate them earlier in the campaign so their high levels won't be an impediment.

A. LL's never have loyalty mechanics
B. When the hell do AI lords get higher level than yours?

Nazjax · June 27

Selakah said:
In general, I'd rather each race have a confederation mechanic that makes sense.

I really like how the handled the Empire confederation mechanics, for example. It takes a while to absorb the full Empire, and there is a real downside to confederating too fast. The Norscan mechanic also makes sense, but I'm not too happy with the way it was directly copy pasted for the Greenskins - it makes it too easy to absorb large swaths of land by sniping a Legendary Lord.

Agree with you. Confederations need more special mechanics.

And GS faction should be capable to confederate only if your faction is stronger. Norsca dosent expend like GS can. It's dumb to confederate rank 1 Grimgor if you play Skarsnik and just win because AI is dumb. Would only work if GS factions were all managed with players.

Tayvar · June 27

Selakah said:
In general, I'd rather each race have a confederation mechanic that makes sense.

I really like how the handled the Empire confederation mechanics, for example. It takes a while to absorb the full Empire, and there is a real downside to confederating too fast. The Norscan mechanic also makes sense, but I'm not too happy with the way it was directly copy pasted for the Greenskins - it makes it too easy to absorb large swaths of land by sniping a Legendary Lord.

The mechanic make more sense for Greenskins than for Norscans, just because CA gave it to Norsca first not means that it fits Norsca more, if CA remove it from Greenskins then it should be removed from Norsca too.

Jman5 · June 27

I think at the very least for Norsca/Greenskins Legendary Lord factions should break away and declare war after their boss gets krumped. So if Grimgor confederates Wurzhag, then later Azhag comes along and krumps Grimgor, Azhag's starting province should break free and declare war on Azhag. The army led by Azhag joins him and any army that was stationed in Azhag's starting province at the time join him.

This would make the confederation mechanic feel like a real power struggle after a power vacuum is created by you taking out the top guy. In my mind it makes sense that some of the lieutenants underneath the boss have ambitions of their own.

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