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Do you reckon a lord (sisters of twilight) can be a multiple-model unit?

MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 942
edited June 2020 in General Discussion
So there's been a lot of debate about the sisters of twilight lately, and one of the things that keeps coming up is how to inplement them. The two main proposed methods are:
-a single-rigged model like Skarsnik&Gobbla
-a lord-hero team like Gortrek and Felix

But since the sisters would probably have the same rig, it should tehnically be posssible to make a 2-model unit out of them. That is, if it is possible to give a multiple-model unit a skill tree with xp progression. Since I have no modding experience for this game, I do not know whether this is feasible or whether there is a way to ensure the one elf lady has dark hair and the other white hair.

Do you think lords&heroes are hardcoded to be single-entity units, or would my idea be possible?
Post edited by Magicspook on

Comments

  • KillTheWorldKillTheWorld Registered Users Posts: 423
    It can be done, obviously, since we have one already.
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 5,332
    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 37,570
    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    That’s basically the G&F approach.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 5,332
    ArneSo said:

    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    That’s basically the G&F approach.
    No, that's a Lord&Hero approach. I'm talking Lord&Lord. Meaning both can lead armies in a pinch but are way stronger when leading the same army.
  • #902441#902441 Registered Users Posts: 7,489
    If I remember right the issue with The Sisters was that the Great Eagle and Dragon mounts were too problematic.

    I've no idea if that's still the case, considering they've got multiple Skinks on howdahs riding dinosaurs.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 942
    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    That's probably hardcoded to not be possible. Unless they cannibalise the waaagh mechanic somehow...
  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 942
    edited June 2020
    subsphinx said:

    It can be done, obviously, since we have one already.

    We don't :smiley:

    EDIT:

    I just realised that the two-entity approach could also provide a way to represent their rebirth mechanic. Just give them regeneration if they are below 60% or so health, and allow the regeneration to resurrect models like the lore of vamps does.
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,083
    The topic title confused me for a quick moment.

    Reckon, not recon. XD
    ò_ó
  • Artjuh90Artjuh90 Registered Users Posts: 1,697
    Fossoway said:

    ArneSo said:

    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    That’s basically the G&F approach.
    No, that's a Lord&Hero approach. I'm talking Lord&Lord. Meaning both can lead armies in a pinch but are way stronger when leading the same army.
    so the isabella vlad version?
  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 942
    Warlocke said:

    The topic title confused me for a quick moment.

    Reckon, not recon. XD

    Whoops. Fixed, thank you!
  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 37,570
    Fossoway said:

    ArneSo said:

    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    That’s basically the G&F approach.
    No, that's a Lord&Hero approach. I'm talking Lord&Lord. Meaning both can lead armies in a pinch but are way stronger when leading the same army.
    I‘m not sure if that would work in TWWH
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • WalrusWalrus Senior Member BrazilRegistered Users Posts: 1,104
    Skarsnik and Gobbla
  • darkgaia01#1228darkgaia01#1228 Registered Users Posts: 462
    this is why the 3 kingdoms army system would work in warhammer now as we have alot of character's that can fight together but can't without have been in reinforcement range of each other like i would love to be able have isabella and vlad in the same army or tyrion and teclis.
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,333
    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    This would be the worst possible implementation, assuming it's even possible. Naestra and Arahan should never be apart. Their whole theme is "two bodies sharing one soul"; for all intents and purposes, they are one person who's been split into two bodies. If you can put them in separate armies, then what's the point in even adding them to the game? There's a reason they shared a model on tabletop.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 2,074
    edited June 2020
    I don't see why it would be an issue just have two characters that stick together similar to skarsnik and gobbla sharing a life bar but it could be one off there benefits having much more hp than most lords. They could have skills for special shots with there arrows and skill for each individualy on there shared skill tree.

    Once a mount is unlocked they then just saddle up on that, I don't see a problem.

    They could even have a mechanic if people wish were you can switch between light and dark twins for different abilities in campaign to strengthen their advantage against certain armies.

    If they aren't one model it completely takes away what makes them them as inseparable twins




  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 5,332

    Fossoway said:

    Wouldn't it be even easier to make them as two lord units that can be placed in the same army? Like, individually both are weaker and cheaper than than the average LL, but once paired together they would get way stronger.

    This would be the worst possible implementation, assuming it's even possible. Naestra and Arahan should never be apart. Their whole theme is "two bodies sharing one soul"; for all intents and purposes, they are one person who's been split into two bodies. If you can put them in separate armies, then what's the point in even adding them to the game? There's a reason they shared a model on tabletop.
    That's why I mentioned that they should be individually weaker than a regular LL, and only when paired together they reach their max potential.

    The main issue from this comes from the mounts, though. From what I understand, they ride the same dragon at the same time. Hard to do this if they are two separate units.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    The real issue is the eagle mount. Conceivably you could have two elf models on a dragon, but balancing two on an eagle? One rider with that bulky throne/saddle already looks unwieldy and top heavy.
  • Mogwai_Man#4978Mogwai_Man#4978 Registered Users Posts: 6,059
    See Skarsnik.
  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,518
    edited June 2020
    I actually think these should just be the Wood Elf (that is, Orion)'s unique faction mechanic.

    The top bar features two opposing power meters:

    -Pure Starlight (the "good paragon"); generated by doing "good stuff" like establishing outposts and making treaties with Order factions
    -Unbridled Flame (the "bad renegade"); generated by doing "bad stuff" like Hero actions, killing/ wounding enemy characters, razing settlements)

    Like Chivalry, Rituals and Waagh!, players' choices will build up one or the other; sometimes one choice expends some of the other's accumulate points.
    Reaching the first tier allows you to recruit the Legendary Hero of the respective bar.
    Graduated tiers unlocks new stuff for the respective Hero, be it unique abilities, combat attributes, or army effects wherever that Hero is embedded with. The points can be spent to unlock these bonuses for a cooldown much like Rites.
    Each tier unlocks an extra Amber for you to use, allowing a potentially unlimited supply of Amber just by playing the game since it will repeat itself forever as you spend and expend the points.

    To follow the lore around them being together, there are some significant bonuses when they are together in the same army.

    As for keeping them together and that sort, I don't see the point. I'd rather give Wood Elfs a unique mechanic than just having a two-model Lord unit that probably copies everything about a generic Glade Lord and you simply have a new character doing the same old stuff.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • steam_164513114285QqDwIYfsteam_164513114285QqDwIYf Registered Users Posts: 811
    Arsenic said:

    If I remember right the issue with The Sisters was that the Great Eagle and Dragon mounts were too problematic.

    I've no idea if that's still the case, considering they've got multiple Skinks on howdahs riding dinosaurs.

    Personally I'd be fine if Naestra used the eagle Gwindalor and Arahan used the dragon Ceithin-Har.
  • #93734#93734 Registered Users Posts: 319
    We need more LLs for the WE and we need them now. We don’t need CA wasting a lot of time and resources trying to slavishly replicate TT mechanics for the twins. And we certainly don’t need a bunch of silly mechanics that give little unique campaign /battle abilities, or that could be done just as good or better using some existing mechanics. Just do the Gortrek and Felix thing and get them in the game. NOW.
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,333
    Thirdeye said:

    We need more LLs for the WE and we need them now. We don’t need CA wasting a lot of time and resources trying to slavishly replicate TT mechanics for the twins. And we certainly don’t need a bunch of silly mechanics that give little unique campaign /battle abilities, or that could be done just as good or better using some existing mechanics. Just do the Gortrek and Felix thing and get them in the game. NOW.

    Then we might as well get Araloth as a legendary lord instead. If CA isn't going to do them properly, then I don't want them at all. Those "silly mechanics" are are what make the characters unique and interesting; to ignore their mechanics and lore is to ignore the characters themselves and at that point you might as well just get add someone else. Better a pipe dream than a half-baked reality.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 2,074
    Thirdeye said:

    We need more LLs for the WE and we need them now. We don’t need CA wasting a lot of time and resources trying to slavishly replicate TT mechanics for the twins. And we certainly don’t need a bunch of silly mechanics that give little unique campaign /battle abilities, or that could be done just as good or better using some existing mechanics. Just do the Gortrek and Felix thing and get them in the game. NOW.

    Disagree completely that sounds incredibly boring what's the point off bringing a new LL in game if they have nothing unique about them and most LPs have shown how creative and experimental they can be.

    They may just have them start with a mount anyway but I want them to have there own flavour not be some generic lord just so they can fill the LL spots




  • TheLowKingTheLowKing Registered Users Posts: 210
    The Sisters of Twilight are not supposed to be seperate units. In the Tabletop they both HAD to be on the same mount and if the mount was killed they had to form their own unit. They had to join units together, fought challenges together and could only die if both were killed. They were literally inseperable.

    A Lord-Hero team or Lord-Lord team would not make sense, the idea of it being even possible to be in seperate armies contradicts their lore.

  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,752
    Sisters are supposed to be a single unit, and i don't really understand why people are painting them as a problematic unit to add.

    IN TTT THEY COULD NOT BE USED ON FOOT.


    Basically, they only need to put two different elf ladies in a single eagle/dragon.


    Any other special mechanic is already been done before, like different types of ammo.

  • #93734#93734 Registered Users Posts: 319
    Pocman said:

    Sisters are supposed to be a single unit, and i don't really understand why people are painting them as a problematic unit to add.

    IN TTT THEY COULD NOT BE USED ON FOOT.


    Basically, they only need to put two different elf ladies in a single eagle/dragon.


    No they don't. Appearently its hard to do and its just not worth the effort to do it. And its just stupid.
  • Arthas_Menethil#3421Arthas_Menethil#3421 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,350
    Pocman said:

    Sisters are supposed to be a single unit, and i don't really understand why people are painting them as a problematic unit to add.

    IN TTT THEY COULD NOT BE USED ON FOOT.


    Basically, they only need to put two different elf ladies in a single eagle/dragon.


    Any other special mechanic is already been done before, like different types of ammo.

    They could be used on foot per their rules
    Should their mount be slain, the sisters
    automatically form a unit. They can join other units, but if
    one of the twins joins a unit, so must the other. If one twin
    cannot join the unit, neither can the other.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • Pocman#6295Pocman#6295 Registered Users Posts: 5,752

    Pocman said:

    Sisters are supposed to be a single unit, and i don't really understand why people are painting them as a problematic unit to add.

    IN TTT THEY COULD NOT BE USED ON FOOT.


    Basically, they only need to put two different elf ladies in a single eagle/dragon.


    Any other special mechanic is already been done before, like different types of ammo.

    They could be used on foot per their rules
    Should their mount be slain, the sisters
    automatically form a unit. They can join other units, but if
    one of the twins joins a unit, so must the other. If one twin
    cannot join the unit, neither can the other.
    As every character in TT. But the thing is, in TW, when the mount dies, the lord dies.

    So CA could simply add them as a flying lord only, and stop worrying about making them multi entity.

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