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Lets talk about game balance

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  • littlenukelittlenuke Registered Users Posts: 809
    Ninaran said:

    MP folk complaining about proposed changes ruining their precious "eSport" is dripping enough irony to drown an entire Karak.

    irony1[ ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er- ]
    noun, plural i·ro·nies.
    the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning:
    the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
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  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 9,491
    Ninaran said:

    MP folk complaining about proposed changes ruining their precious "eSport" is dripping enough irony to drown an entire Karak.

    The funniest thing one can hear from the campaign carebear ppl is that a faction is "weak"

    Like jesus, u gotta wonder if these ppl r even playing legendaries
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  • TheKrakenmeisterTheKrakenmeister Registered Users Posts: 135
    Singleplayer and multiplayer can be completely independently balanced. There should be no complaining from either side from balance changes.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,947
    edited July 2020

    Singleplayer and multiplayer can be completely independently balanced. There should be no complaining from either side from balance changes.

    MP balance doesn't affect SP at all since SP has tons of buffs warping units out of proportion not all that far into any campaign.

    Play as Grom or Skarsnik. By turn 50 your basic gobbos rival Chaos Warriors in punching power while costing not even half as much. Any complaints about stat adjustments are completely nil in SP because you never play with any base-statted units for any length of time.

    It's the other way around. Whenever CA goes for SP "fun", it affects MP a lot more, like that stupid parrot they saddled Teclis with.

    SP is the mode keeping the game from getting balanced. It was SPlayers after all who wanted Hellebron's busted sword to remain as busted as it was, because "FUN", keep that in mind.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,825
    TBF right now the only way to balance SP is to scrap a **** ton of mechanics and actually re dsighning them and making the AI better so it forces the lazy players to actually use their brains to play the game.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • EmrysorEmrysor Registered Users Posts: 501

    innerp said:

    innerp said:

    well with the people who seem personally insulted by the idea of SP changes aside, i do agree with OP somewhat about VC units in particular feeling a bit weak. they have a lot of meh units and not much unique about their best units aside from the mortis engine. i like that they are more character focused in campaign being their greatest strength, but they feel like they crutch on magic too hard to carry them/make them interesting sometimes. units like crypt ghouls/horrors and varghulfs could use a little extra to up the roster a bit.

    Cool add a skill, but please dont tinker with MP balance FOR SP on the subject of undead, they are already in a precarious position and any changes without MP in mind can completely screw the entire games balance if changing undead.
    i've never advocated for breaking MP, quite the opposite. i think MP and SP need to be balanced separately.
    No. They don't need to be balanced separately. SP needs to be balanced, PERIOD. Currently SP isn't balanced at all, it's just turbo-everything. Turbo levelling, turbo research, turbo expansion and turbo buffstacking.
    In theory you can balance SP, but it is not likely to be the case because it will take a lot of development time to bring everything into balance. Considering how much time they use to create LP it just uses too much dev time with little payback. Given how different the faction are as well it will be a big task at hand. I do wish it would be done. And what do you want a dlc with campaign update of the current faction or a new faction/LP? Seems to be the latter is much more popular.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,825
    popular probably.

    long lasting or re playable, **** no. eliboring campaign could be completed in less then 10 turns , 1 if you use the dumb bug. and after that why play it, it's literally building up to playing the same battle. there is no sand box or grand strategy.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,649
    It is a myth that MP balance affects campaign.

    1) People role playing (to a bigger or lesser extent) and then they don't like that there preferred playstlye is not efficient as it might have been (before a nerf) or how they perceive it should be. That is not related to balance.

    2) they play on hard and legendary and want to be able to use a wider variety of units. Not problematic per se, it's just that you can't balance the game based on that. Whenever you play the game above normal difficulty, you're specifically telling the game to throw balance out of whack and give you a harder experience.

    3) Minute tweaks are lost in the ocean of bonuses due to skills and techs. Bats with 72 MD? Waywatchers with 400+m range?

    ...

    and many other examples like that. Campaign deserves better balance on the whole, but that is completely unrelated to small tweaks that happen in a patch.
  • EmrysorEmrysor Registered Users Posts: 501

    It is a myth that MP balance affects campaign.

    1) People role playing (to a bigger or lesser extent) and then they don't like that there preferred playstlye is not efficient as it might have been (before a nerf) or how they perceive it should be. That is not related to balance.

    Unless you grossly change a unit the strategy emplyoying them would be about the same, so false or inaccurate in your statement.


    2) they play on hard and legendary and want to be able to use a wider variety of units. Not problematic per se, it's just that you can't balance the game based on that. Whenever you play the game above normal difficulty, you're specifically telling the game to throw balance out of whack and give you a harder experience.

    False, a lot people play on higher campaign difficulty but normal battle difficulty. You cannot put everyone under the same assumption.

    3) Minute tweaks are lost in the ocean of bonuses due to skills and techs. Bats with 72 MD? Waywatchers with 400+m range?

    Leave campaign bonuses out of here that is not the issue, because campaign bonuses never gets changed after they are made. Getting to 400 range on waywatchers makes your army weaker asa whole for all the heroes you need in it. A slight nerf you rarely see any difference in but if the same unit is nerfed over many times you start to feel things have changed.Bats are bad no mattter how much md you give them though.
    ...

    and many other examples like that. Campaign deserves better balance on the whole, but that is completely unrelated to small tweaks that happen in a patch.

    You are a good player, but you do not see the whole picture. Create separate balancing or allow us campaign players to have a voice in balancing too. And just maybe we can get some sweet payback for time period making things very broken in MP and hear some cries.

    A unit should be judged from both the campaign and in MP not just one mode...
  • innerpinnerp Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 982

    It is a myth that MP balance affects campaign.

    1) People role playing (to a bigger or lesser extent) and then they don't like that there preferred playstlye is not efficient as it might have been (before a nerf) or how they perceive it should be. That is not related to balance.

    2) they play on hard and legendary and want to be able to use a wider variety of units. Not problematic per se, it's just that you can't balance the game based on that. Whenever you play the game above normal difficulty, you're specifically telling the game to throw balance out of whack and give you a harder experience.

    3) Minute tweaks are lost in the ocean of bonuses due to skills and techs. Bats with 72 MD? Waywatchers with 400+m range?

    ...

    and many other examples like that. Campaign deserves better balance on the whole, but that is completely unrelated to small tweaks that happen in a patch.

    im pretty sure i dispelled your myth multiple times, but if you want to bury your head in the sand then by all means
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 9,491
    edited July 2020
    Emrysor said:

    Create separate balancing or allow us campaign players to have a voice in balancing too.

    U seriously thinks theres a balance in campaign when wuzzag most basic savork boar boyz, destroys demi, grails and bloob knights. Really dont know how u can talk about balance when in mp terms its a $750 unit outright slaughtering a $2252 rank 9 blood knight

    U see those ap corsairs? ap gutter runners? or those 1 man army lord with dunno how much resist u can stack, 50-80% wards? +unknown amount of physical. 10+ rocket army that basically 1 shot an army lol, all u need is godmode characters to mop up the rest.





    Thats not balance lol
    I havent even pull in like t2 units, those r garbage trash soldiers accompany the lord. Vamps dont even need an army
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  • FelkonFelkon Registered Users Posts: 18
    Rip lokhir 2350 gold :frowning: defeated by underpowered 2070 cost leon that needs permanent lion shield or better stats on his already better hippogryph


    Also Attrition IS strength of undead. For low stat line they recieve Huge HP pool with very low crumbling damage mechanic.
    Here is exacmple of Non undead faction routed while having balance of power in their hands, while undead was just sloooooooowly crumbling. And won because of it.



    The ONLY thing from entire post i think me, and alot of people can agree- are some campaign buffs like amber and beastmen rework that CA already slowly making into reality hopefully. Everything else .....
  • EmrysorEmrysor Registered Users Posts: 501
    yst said:

    Emrysor said:

    Create separate balancing or allow us campaign players to have a voice in balancing too.

    U seriously thinks theres a balance in campaign when wuzzag most basic savork boar boyz, destroys demi, grails and bloob knights. Really dont know how u can talk about balance when in mp terms its a $750 unit outright slaughtering a $2252 rank 9 blood knight

    U see those ap corsairs? ap gutter runners? or those 1 man army lord with dunno how much resist u can stack, 50-80% wards? +unknown amount of physical. 10+ rocket army that basically 1 shot an army lol, all u need is godmode characters to mop up the rest.





    Thats not balance lol
    I havent even pull in like t2 units, those r garbage trash soldiers accompany the lord. Vamps dont even need an army
    Great so you showcase the strength of ranged units in this game, congrats and it was about time. I really do not care about what buffs you can stack through traits, lords and research. The point about balancing is the balance of the unit itself excluding the buff stacking. I really do not care about how many buffs there are, I find it unreasonable for a unit to be nerfed because of mp itself without its consideration in SP. If a unit is nerfed in multiplayer it does not get the opportunity to restore those nerfs in a tech for example.

    And yeah I believe CA can balance if they want, but they seem to be more focused on unit balancing, therefore its considerations should be based on multiplayer and singleplayer. You seem rather annoyed or angry this being brought up for some reason.
  • Sindri_TWACSindri_TWAC Registered Users Posts: 95
    SP should be balanced out through the campaign mechanics and AI, not unit stats.

    As many have said already. The changes don't make sense for multiplayer. All in all OP comes over as just a personal wishlist without any sort of objective evaluation or judgement.
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