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What army book units are Wood Elves even missing?

2

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  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460

    neodeinos said:

    lucibuis said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Ehh, half those are neutral monsters, and marked gors are just unit upgrades. By that logic wood elves are missing a lot of different arrow types for different units, all the types were available to glade guard, glade riders and deepwood scouts. I know that the special gors got models in AoS, but if we use that there are plenty of missing forest units aswell.

    Overall wood elves were in a very dire need of content, mainly legendary lords and mechanics but they could use some units aswell. Wood elves and beastmen were together on top of the list of races needing a rework, one had to be first and it happened to be the wood elves. Simple as that.
    Actually marked Gors are not AoS only material. They exist since WH Fantasy and have models aswell.
    That said i dunno which one of those creatures are "neutral monsters" since all of them are BM related...and comparing them with elves with different types of arrows doesn't look right at all.
    Those BM units are unique, with different looks and forms and skeletons, while elves with different arrows are...elves with different arrows.


    Preyton and incarnate of beasts are not Beastmen, stop lying
    Preyton is definitely Beastmen. The Incarnate was for the lore of Beast IIRC so any race with that lore could have it but aesthically it fits the Beastmen best.
    nope, eleves are better than beastmen at magic so if any one should get incarnates its a elf faction or a LM


    The Elemental Incarnate of Beasts belongs to the Destruction Forces, so they are definitely part of BM roster.

    Same for the Preyton, who has also the lore on his side:



    Beastmen Shamans created them and they are Chaos creatures.


    cool, but you're disregarding that anyone could take them, and in end times didn't the wind of beast choose a grimgor who joined order races against chaos.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 2,592

    neodeinos said:

    lucibuis said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Ehh, half those are neutral monsters, and marked gors are just unit upgrades. By that logic wood elves are missing a lot of different arrow types for different units, all the types were available to glade guard, glade riders and deepwood scouts. I know that the special gors got models in AoS, but if we use that there are plenty of missing forest units aswell.

    Overall wood elves were in a very dire need of content, mainly legendary lords and mechanics but they could use some units aswell. Wood elves and beastmen were together on top of the list of races needing a rework, one had to be first and it happened to be the wood elves. Simple as that.
    Actually marked Gors are not AoS only material. They exist since WH Fantasy and have models aswell.
    That said i dunno which one of those creatures are "neutral monsters" since all of them are BM related...and comparing them with elves with different types of arrows doesn't look right at all.
    Those BM units are unique, with different looks and forms and skeletons, while elves with different arrows are...elves with different arrows.


    Preyton and incarnate of beasts are not Beastmen, stop lying
    Preyton is definitely Beastmen. The Incarnate was for the lore of Beast IIRC so any race with that lore could have it but aesthically it fits the Beastmen best.
    nope, eleves are better than beastmen at magic so if any one should get incarnates its a elf faction or a LM


    The Elemental Incarnate of Beasts belongs to the Destruction Forces, so they are definitely part of BM roster.

    Same for the Preyton, who has also the lore on his side:



    Beastmen Shamans created them and they are Chaos creatures.


    Those are Age of Sigmar rules, and in Age of Sigmar chaos and destruction are different things. Everything belongs to either order, chaos, death or destruction. Beastmen are chaos, so the destruction tag actually means that it does not belong to beastmen. You are right about the preyton though, I concede.
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460

    neodeinos said:

    lucibuis said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Ehh, half those are neutral monsters, and marked gors are just unit upgrades. By that logic wood elves are missing a lot of different arrow types for different units, all the types were available to glade guard, glade riders and deepwood scouts. I know that the special gors got models in AoS, but if we use that there are plenty of missing forest units aswell.

    Overall wood elves were in a very dire need of content, mainly legendary lords and mechanics but they could use some units aswell. Wood elves and beastmen were together on top of the list of races needing a rework, one had to be first and it happened to be the wood elves. Simple as that.
    Actually marked Gors are not AoS only material. They exist since WH Fantasy and have models aswell.
    That said i dunno which one of those creatures are "neutral monsters" since all of them are BM related...and comparing them with elves with different types of arrows doesn't look right at all.
    Those BM units are unique, with different looks and forms and skeletons, while elves with different arrows are...elves with different arrows.


    Preyton and incarnate of beasts are not Beastmen, stop lying
    Preyton is definitely Beastmen. The Incarnate was for the lore of Beast IIRC so any race with that lore could have it but aesthically it fits the Beastmen best.
    nope, eleves are better than beastmen at magic so if any one should get incarnates its a elf faction or a LM


    The Elemental Incarnate of Beasts belongs to the Destruction Forces, so they are definitely part of BM roster.

    Same for the Preyton, who has also the lore on his side:



    Beastmen Shamans created them and they are Chaos creatures.


    Those are Age of Sigmar rules, and in Age of Sigmar chaos and destruction are different things. Everything belongs to either order, chaos, death or destruction. Beastmen are chaos, so the destruction tag actually means that it does not belong to beastmen. You are right about the preyton though, I concede.
    nvm than aos rules are not valid to fantasy
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460
    edited August 5
    100% confirmed both beastmen and WE can take them with binding scroll. according to Monstours arcanum which is the valid rules for incarnate of beasts.


    https://www.theoldsystem.com/forDownloads/Tabletops/Warhammer/Fantasy/Forge World/Monstrous Arcanum.pdf

    check for your selves
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 6,308

    100% confirmed both beastmen and WE can take them with binding scroll. according to Monstours arcanum which is the valid rules for incarnate of beasts.


    https://www.theoldsystem.com/forDownloads/Tabletops/Warhammer/Fantasy/Forge World/Monstrous Arcanum.pdf

    check for your selves

    Don't care it doesn't fit the WE aesthetic.
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460
    neodeinos said:

    100% confirmed both beastmen and WE can take them with binding scroll. according to Monstours arcanum which is the valid rules for incarnate of beasts.


    https://www.theoldsystem.com/forDownloads/Tabletops/Warhammer/Fantasy/Forge World/Monstrous Arcanum.pdf

    check for your selves

    Don't care it doesn't fit the WE aesthetic.
    thats your opinion, as far as the final decision its up to CA and GW
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • IamNotArobotIamNotArobot Registered Users Posts: 1,980
    edited August 6
    Zoats care not about editions, zoats are coming





    FOR YOU

    Justice and CONFEDERATION for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast!

    Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo

    Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!




  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460
    @neodeinos here is the friggin punch line look at throgg the troll king astheticaly and by lore he should have acess to stone trolls, river trolls and troll hag.

    but does he have acess to them no.

    beastmen have two really good center piece monstores in ghorgon and jabber, and the both need new skeleton , and up to this point a LP only had one big monster with new skeleton so do you really think there will be three or four BM lp to add the incarnate to BM.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 6,308

    @neodeinos here is the friggin punch line look at throgg the troll king astheticaly and by lore he should have acess to stone trolls, river trolls and troll hag.

    but does he have acess to them no.

    beastmen have two really good center piece monstores in ghorgon and jabber, and the both need new skeleton , and up to this point a LP only had one big monster with new skeleton so do you really think there will be three or four BM lp to add the incarnate to BM.

    What I think is that we'll never get the Incarnate for any races.
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460
    edited August 6
    neodeinos said:

    @neodeinos here is the friggin punch line look at throgg the troll king astheticaly and by lore he should have acess to stone trolls, river trolls and troll hag.

    but does he have acess to them no.

    beastmen have two really good center piece monstores in ghorgon and jabber, and the both need new skeleton , and up to this point a LP only had one big monster with new skeleton so do you really think there will be three or four BM lp to add the incarnate to BM.

    What I think is that we'll never get the Incarnate for any races.
    true but zoat is nothing but dragon orger remodel and WE don't really have any other really flashy monsters. so there is a shot if we are gonna get it we are gonna get it with WE.

    and here is cherey on top brood horror, giant rat , burrrowing behomath, great pox rat all share similar skeleton in my openion with dfferent animations.

    same goes to most of strom finds and augmented rat orgers. so one do all
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 8,097

    neodeinos said:

    lucibuis said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Ehh, half those are neutral monsters, and marked gors are just unit upgrades. By that logic wood elves are missing a lot of different arrow types for different units, all the types were available to glade guard, glade riders and deepwood scouts. I know that the special gors got models in AoS, but if we use that there are plenty of missing forest units aswell.

    Overall wood elves were in a very dire need of content, mainly legendary lords and mechanics but they could use some units aswell. Wood elves and beastmen were together on top of the list of races needing a rework, one had to be first and it happened to be the wood elves. Simple as that.
    Actually marked Gors are not AoS only material. They exist since WH Fantasy and have models aswell.
    That said i dunno which one of those creatures are "neutral monsters" since all of them are BM related...and comparing them with elves with different types of arrows doesn't look right at all.
    Those BM units are unique, with different looks and forms and skeletons, while elves with different arrows are...elves with different arrows.


    Preyton and incarnate of beasts are not Beastmen, stop lying
    Preyton is definitely Beastmen. The Incarnate was for the lore of Beast IIRC so any race with that lore could have it but aesthically it fits the Beastmen best.
    nope, eleves are better than beastmen at magic so if any one should get incarnates its a elf faction or a LM


    The Elemental Incarnate of Beasts belongs to the Destruction Forces, so they are definitely part of BM roster.

    That's an Age of Sigmar warscroll, which is not representative of the state of things in the WFB and TWW setting. WFB fluff on the IEoB is pretty clear - anyone who is sufficiently skilled in the Lore of Beasts can invoke one.

    And if we WERE to use AoS as a guide, Beastmen wouldn't get it either, because Beastmen in AoS are a Chaos faction, not a Destruction faction. In AoS, Destruction refers specifically to the followers of Gorkamorka, the Incarnate of Beasts... namely, greenskins and ogres, although GW and FW also had a tendency to lump into Destruction anything that didn't fit nicely into Order, Chaos, or Death.
  • AsamuAsamu Registered Users Posts: 689

    100% confirmed both beastmen and WE can take them with binding scroll. according to Monstours arcanum which is the valid rules for incarnate of beasts.


    https://www.theoldsystem.com/forDownloads/Tabletops/Warhammer/Fantasy/Forge World/Monstrous Arcanum.pdf

    check for your selves

    This is kind of beside the point. In lore, Incarnates of Beasts were first and foremost used by the Beastmen. There were only a few monstrous arcanum units with hard restrictions on which faction(s) could take them. Warriors of Chaos could take War Lions or Idols of Gork/Mork, for example.

    Yes, any faction with lore of beasts could use one on TT, but they do fit Beastmen the best aesthetically, and it's the race they're most associated with in the lore. If they were to be added, and a single faction picked for them to be added to, picking a faction other than Beastmen would make little-no sense.


    This is all off topic though, and deserves a thread of its own. Should get things back to wood elves, though I guess the OP's question has already been answered, since there are plenty of potential units from the lore and older editions of TT to use for wood elves.
  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 516
    The incarnated elementals are best represented as an object associated with sorcerers. An expensive item that allows the sorcerer to summon the elemental associated with the lore of magic they use.

    However they are too expensive to produce and they are not DLC material.
  • DubinekdubajsDubinekdubajs Registered Users Posts: 971
    Asamu said:

    100% confirmed both beastmen and WE can take them with binding scroll. according to Monstours arcanum which is the valid rules for incarnate of beasts.


    https://www.theoldsystem.com/forDownloads/Tabletops/Warhammer/Fantasy/Forge World/Monstrous Arcanum.pdf

    check for your selves

    This is kind of beside the point. In lore, Incarnates of Beasts were first and foremost used by the Beastmen. There were only a few monstrous arcanum units with hard restrictions on which faction(s) could take them. Warriors of Chaos could take War Lions or Idols of Gork/Mork, for example.

    Yes, any faction with lore of beasts could use one on TT, but they do fit Beastmen the best aesthetically, and it's the race they're most associated with in the lore. If they were to be added, and a single faction picked for them to be added to, picking a faction other than Beastmen would make little-no sense.


    This is all off topic though, and deserves a thread of its own. Should get things back to wood elves, though I guess the OP's question has already been answered, since there are plenty of potential units from the lore and older editions of TT to use for wood elves.
    In what lore? They appear only in one book and that is Monstrous Arcanum and there is one paragraph of lore and one diary story and that’s it. It mentions Beastmen once as it menstions empire wizards once, so by the “lore” we have it can be assosiated with both Empire and Beastmen and it is stated that any mage of lore of beasts can summon it, so they should just stay out of the game or be brought as a spell for lord spellcasters.

    His Royal Highness, Phoenix King Finubar!

    "It has been too long since I drew a blade in anger, Tyrion. You have been my sword, and Teclis has been my shield. But now it is time I fought my own battles!"

    I used to be crazycrix, then Epic happened 😀
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 569
    I always considered the incarnates to be magical constructs/creatures that can be summon and unleashed by every Wizard with the necessary skills and rituals.

    The incarnates are representations of their specific wind after all and magicians of every faction can channel at least one specific wind.

    The fire elemental e.g. was summoned by an imperial bright wizard according to ots page on the wiki.

    In this sense the incarnates could of course be available with the WE. It could also be available to the beastmen or any other sorcerer capable of using the Lore of Beasts with sufficent experience.

    I think it would make sense for the WE to have access to it, but I do not think they are necessary.
    The beastmen on the other hand still have several material units, that would mostly fullfil the same battlefield role as a quick, offensivly strong terror causing entity.

    So if it were to come, it would be more useful for the WE. But personally I do not need to see any of the Incarnates for any faction.

    About actual Units I want to see for the WE:

    Their ranged options are well developed. More arrow variants would not really improve thrm, but hust inflate them in my opinion. Maybe a Treeman that can thriw boulders like Ents, e.g. as an RoR.

    For elven units I would like to see melee variants of glade riders. Hawk riders could get a melee buff to make then a good hybrid unit. I would prefer this over s melee variant.

    For forest spirits: variants of dryads and treekin/treeman would be cool. Though to whitch extend I am unsure. Also spites, which could act like sneaky stabbers (vanguard deployed flankers with cheap armour piercing)
    How najads could be implemented in a useful way, I am unsure.

    For new units: I have noving against zoats but I also do not advocate then.
    I would like to see animal herds; bears, wikd cats, orions hounds uniquly for orions faction (like shadow walkers for alith anar)
    I would also like to see Alterkin.

    Great stags and unicorns would make most sense as mounts, but a feral option might also work.

    I think with inclusions like those the elven, spirit and animal aspects of the forest would be well represented.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 21,200
    Seemingly they have very little.

    I'll be interested to see what CA comes up with. It's either going to be a load of tosh or it's going to be really cool.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 8,097
    edited August 6
    sykall said:

    I always considered the incarnates to be magical constructs/creatures that can be summon and unleashed by every Wizard with the necessary skills and rituals.

    The incarnates are representations of their specific wind after all and magicians of every faction can channel at least one specific wind.

    The fire elemental e.g. was summoned by an imperial bright wizard according to ots page on the wiki.

    Pretty much this. Incarnate Elementals are essentially the power and, for want of a better word, "personality" of a single Wind of Magic coalesced into a physical form. Similar to elementals in other settings, except that Games Workshop adjusted the idea to a setting where the classic four elements weren't really a part of the world's cosmology (except fire...) and magic was divided in a different manner.

    Mind you, it's worth noting that being proficient in a given wind does not necessarily translate into being able to generate Incarnate Elementals. For instance, it's noted in Monstrous Arcanum that Amber Wizards can do some things that High Elf Mages can't because, while High Elf mages achieve sufficient proficiency with the Lore of Beasts to use it as part of High Magic, graduates of the White Tower are just too civilised and academic in their mindset to fully attune to Ghur. So High Elf mages might not be able to create or control an Incarnate Elemental of Beasts for that reason. I don't see Wood Elf Spellweavers having that problem, though.

    That said, personally I think the most appropriate usage for the IEoB might be to have a more race-neutral alternative to the Manticore to be summoned with the Lore of Beasts summon. Mind you, even better could be to give different races their own summons.
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 512
    edited August 6
    This is the list I compiled:

    8h edition:
    Spellweaver - Lord
    Shadowdancer - Hero
    Glade Captain - Hero

    Great Stag - Mount, but could work as a unit as well, just like Forest Dragon and Great Eagles were mostly mounts in 8th edition.
    Treeman (strangleroots) - Range attack upgrade available for the Treeman

    Monstruous Arcanum (8th edition):
    Incarnate Elemental of Beasts

    Storm of Magic (8th edition)
    Zoat

    End Times (I include them as WatP used end times units for the HE side a lot):
    Durthu's Wargrove - Treemen lieutenants of Durthu. Could probably work well as a RoR or campaign unit. Also interesting because those Treeman had weapons.
    Ashenhawks (Araloth personal guard)
    Daughter of Winter - named Maidens of the Thorn (champion unit for Sisters of the Thorn). Would probably better work as a RoR.
    Scarloc's Archers - also sounds a lot like RoR material
    Sisters of the Eternal Grove - Could be an elite Dryad unit, interesting for the forest spirit side of the LP.
    Talsyn Hawks - another RoR potential unit
    Wildkin - Another Drycha Dryad unit. Could work well if Drycha is the additional LL outside of the LP. They would work similarly as shadow walkers for Alith Anar, and maybe the Sisters of the Eternal Grove could be the RoR version of Dryad wildkins.

    6th edition:
    Spites - but they were more something similar to the Greenskins scrap mechanic. You could upgrade your units with spites for a point cost, giving various bonuses.
    Alter-Kindreds/Laith-Kourn - Those are the shapeshifters
    "Known often as Alters, shifters of Wild Kin, there elves can adoptaspects of the creatures that dwell within Athel Loren"

    4th edition:
    Woodelf charriot
    Dryad aspects - Birch, Oak, Willow
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 1,258

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    You do realise that there is no way beastmen are getting all that in the dlc.
  • AJH1987AJH1987 Registered Users Posts: 177
    From 8th, Dryad variants and Melee variants of Glade Riders and Warhawk Riders.

    From earlier editions, Glade Chariots and you can make an argument for beastmaster units to be introduced as feral also inc. Orions hounds. I wouldn't be surprised to see some Forest Hounds and maybe riderless Warhawks as fast, fodder type units.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a unit or two using some inspiration from the lore to make a unit. After all, Silverin Guard and Rangers were not core units and involved a bit of a deep dive.

    Some decent ROR's and characters and you have a nice looking DLC. I hope the Beastmen get some kind of similarly detailed treatment too.
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 2,592
    AJH1987 said:

    From 8th, Dryad variants and Melee variants of Glade Riders and Warhawk Riders.

    None of these exist in the 8th edition. Glade riders and warhawk riders have bows as part of their default loadout, and there is only a single variant of dryads.
  • ZekerathZekerath Registered Users Posts: 193

    AJH1987 said:

    From 8th, Dryad variants and Melee variants of Glade Riders and Warhawk Riders.

    None of these exist in the 8th edition. Glade riders and warhawk riders have bows as part of their default loadout, and there is only a single variant of dryads.
    Glade riders and warhawk riders also have asrai spears in their equipment.
  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 324
    edited August 6

    I know marked gors existed before AoS, but they did not have different models.

    Only Tzaangors have received models in AoS; Pestigors and Khornegors are from sixth edition. (Slaangors have never had their own models.)



  • epic_159759330952IpzWbUFepic_159759330952IpzWbUF Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 987
    neodeinos said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Maybe they are doing WE first because they require less work to update so they need more time to work on the Beastmen.
    I agree, the WE are pretty low hanging fruit for a quick DLC and updating. Their roster is pretty solid as is. I do wish they had artillery but I understand why an army of skirmishers would forgo that.

    The areas they're really lacking is their campaign game mechanics weren't all that great to begin with and are even worse in ME. They're also lacking in the variety of faction/LL choices and locations, as well as generic lord choices.

    And since they're using it as a metric for whether or not they should try and tackle other DLC races, WE make a lot of sense all the way around.

  • Ingr8Ingr8 Registered Users Posts: 1,137

    I know the sisters of Twilight had a cool model but they're a LL for sure.

    What core/special/rare units are they missing? I recall their army book being pretty barebones archers, better archers, best archers.

    They are missing Bonsai Treemen - like normal treemen but much better manicured... and tiny!


    Dreaming of mighty Lumbria

  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,460
    Ingr8 said:

    I know the sisters of Twilight had a cool model but they're a LL for sure.

    What core/special/rare units are they missing? I recall their army book being pretty barebones archers, better archers, best archers.

    They are missing Bonsai Treemen - like normal treemen but much better manicured... and tiny!


    yes the wonderful salt
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 3,153
    From 8th edition:

    -spellweaver (caster lord)

    - great stag (SEM mount, worked as a chariot). It was only a mount, and in lore they were super rare, but as it was supposed to work as a chariot, I can see it being added as a 3 chariotstag unit.

    - glade captain (melee lord, could ride great stags, eagles). Someone has described it as equivalent to the Wayeatcher... Just no. Think HE noble or DE master.

    - shadowdancer: melee and caster hybrid foothero. It also buffed his own troops with his dances

    - hounds of Orion: giant dogs. Technically they are already in the game (as an ability for Orion). Imagine huge black hounds with fur that look like shadows and red eyes.

    - arrow variants: moonfire shafts, arcane Bodkins, trueflight arrows (although for the last ones this is not exactly true,
    as it could be said that there are the arrows used by the glade lords and waystalkers).

    Please note that the arrow variants were usable by every unit except waywatchers and warhawk riders. So you could use glade riders with Starfire shafts, deepwood scouts with arcane bodkins, glade guards with swiftshiver arrows, etc.

    - champion units. In TT you could upgrade (normally) one model per unit to act as the champion (normally it received better stats). This has been adapted by CA into completely new units. For example, the DE dreadknights are an example of this. Similarly, the deathrunners for the Skaven. So they could add branchnymhps (improved dryadas), wind riders (improved warhawks, maybe made into a melee only variant). Personally, I would love to see wild hunters, as in TT, wild riders were armour piercing (they used asrai spears) and in TW, they are not. So I would love an actual elite unit of AP, shock cavalry.

    -strangleroot variant for the treemen. Treemen could pay an extra to get a ranged attack. However, this is technically already reflected in one of the animations (the vine whip attack).


    WE characters or units from lore but no model

    - coeddil/corrupted treemen

    - Amadri Ironbark/weapon carrying treekin

    - Other forest/nature spirits, like naiads or river spirits.

    - the White Hart of Athel Loren

    From previous editions:

    - alter kindred: shapesifter elves that can take animal form.

    - willow, oak and birch dryads.

    - spite variants for existing units. Sprites worked as a buff you would give to your own units. For example, malevolents were small fairies that would attack their enemies with blowdarts, giving the unit buffed by them a not very powerful ranged attack. Netlings were like small spiders that covered everything in invisible nets, giving the unit they buff a higher, or a MA rebuff aura. In terms of TW, imagine a treeman with small pixies sitting on his shoulders attacking with blowdarts, or a treekin covered in small spiders and spiderwebs.

    - Spites units. Some of the Spites could be transformed by CAinto actual units. For example, shrikes could become the WEs equivalent to fell bats.

    - sabertooth tigers. Technically, there were only two of these, being the companions of a hero from 4th edition.

    From super old editions:

    - wild cats. Probably there is no reason to add them over hounds of Orion
    - warrior kindreds. Shield and axe warriors. They don't look well in the current aesthetics. No reason to add them over sword and shield eternal guard.
    - chariots. No reason to add them over great stags, unless great stags are made to work more as a horse instead of an actual chariot. Chariots do not make a lot of sense for a race that lives in the forests.

    Lorefully related to the WEs, with models.

    - Zoats.

    - incarnate elemental of beasts

    - emperor forest dragons


    From AoS/end of times, although with basis in current lore

    - Kurnoth hunters
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 8,160

    I know marked gors existed before AoS, but they did not have different models.

    Only Tzaangors have received models in AoS; Pestigors and Khornegors are from sixth edition. (Slaangors have never had their own models.)



    Tzaangors have also gotten new models in 40k, funnily enough. They appear in the Thousand Sons codex with new models.

    They do seem like something that could be a common inspiration across the three settings and something that CA could copy with relative ease.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 3,153

    neodeinos said:

    lucibuis said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Ehh, half those are neutral monsters, and marked gors are just unit upgrades. By that logic wood elves are missing a lot of different arrow types for different units, all the types were available to glade guard, glade riders and deepwood scouts. I know that the special gors got models in AoS, but if we use that there are plenty of missing forest units aswell.

    Overall wood elves were in a very dire need of content, mainly legendary lords and mechanics but they could use some units aswell. Wood elves and beastmen were together on top of the list of races needing a rework, one had to be first and it happened to be the wood elves. Simple as that.
    Actually marked Gors are not AoS only material. They exist since WH Fantasy and have models aswell.
    That said i dunno which one of those creatures are "neutral monsters" since all of them are BM related...and comparing them with elves with different types of arrows doesn't look right at all.
    Those BM units are unique, with different looks and forms and skeletons, while elves with different arrows are...elves with different arrows.


    Preyton and incarnate of beasts are not Beastmen, stop lying
    Preyton is definitely Beastmen. The Incarnate was for the lore of Beast IIRC so any race with that lore could have it but aesthically it fits the Beastmen best.
    nope, eleves are better than beastmen at magic so if any one should get incarnates its a elf faction or a LM


    The Elemental Incarnate of Beasts belongs to the Destruction Forces, so they are definitely part of BM roster.



    Nope. That picture is from AoS. There was no similar allegiance for the Incarnate elemental of beasts in WHFB..
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 8,160
    edited August 6
    Pocman said:

    neodeinos said:

    lucibuis said:

    Time to search into secondary sources, boys. Cuz CA is gonna go wild with non-8th armybook material due to obvious reasons.

    Besides Zoats, Stags Chariot and Sprites...

    Edit. The Incarnate Elemental of Beasts is listed as "Destruction", this means WE are not gonna take it...even if it has some WE vibes.

    Damn, the more i look at the contents left for the WE the more i try to find a good reason why CA choose them over the holy sweet Beastmen.
    I mean...you can literally go wild with the amount of cool missing stuff they have.

    - Preyton
    - Ghorgon
    - Jabberslythe
    - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
    - Chaos Giant Spined Beast
    - Tuskgor Chariot
    - Cockatrice
    - Tzangors
    - Slangors
    - Khorngors
    - Pestigors
    - Great Bray Shaman
    - Wargor
    - Doombull

    And the WoC? Even more!

    So why choosing the WE besides the LL's?
    At this point the only valid reason i can think is that they will be the "cheap" part of the DLC, leaving most of the budget for the Skaven Moulders and their big and unique monsters.

    Ehh, half those are neutral monsters, and marked gors are just unit upgrades. By that logic wood elves are missing a lot of different arrow types for different units, all the types were available to glade guard, glade riders and deepwood scouts. I know that the special gors got models in AoS, but if we use that there are plenty of missing forest units aswell.

    Overall wood elves were in a very dire need of content, mainly legendary lords and mechanics but they could use some units aswell. Wood elves and beastmen were together on top of the list of races needing a rework, one had to be first and it happened to be the wood elves. Simple as that.
    Actually marked Gors are not AoS only material. They exist since WH Fantasy and have models aswell.
    That said i dunno which one of those creatures are "neutral monsters" since all of them are BM related...and comparing them with elves with different types of arrows doesn't look right at all.
    Those BM units are unique, with different looks and forms and skeletons, while elves with different arrows are...elves with different arrows.


    Preyton and incarnate of beasts are not Beastmen, stop lying
    Preyton is definitely Beastmen. The Incarnate was for the lore of Beast IIRC so any race with that lore could have it but aesthically it fits the Beastmen best.
    nope, eleves are better than beastmen at magic so if any one should get incarnates its a elf faction or a LM


    The Elemental Incarnate of Beasts belongs to the Destruction Forces, so they are definitely part of BM roster.



    Nope. That picture is from AoS. There was no similar allegiance for the Incarnate elemental of beasts in WHFB..
    If you ignore that the lore they did have bound them more closely to the Beastmen, that is.

    Now, don't get me wrong, yeah, I was swayed by Draxynnic's oratorial skills but this point of it being more closely connected to Beastmen by what lore it had needs to be conceded. Whether that is enough or not remains to be seen.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

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