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Unfinished game again?

kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
This game is OK but it feels like a features-cut version of a usual TW title. Therefore it is given for free for 24 hours. But the price tag of an AAA title should not be applied here, I suppose. This game is lacking the epic grandeur of a Total War.

In fact, the disappointment comes when you understand that your ultimate goal is to capture the city of Troy, you then go to the custom battles section to see the map of the City You Are Supposed To Spend 10 Years to Take. And just realise you must use some **** siege-towers, looking like a mixed breed of Assyrian rams and Hellenistic siege towers. And of course that's the Trojan Horse. Yay. Trojans can build this garbage either.

So with the help of this crappy trash vehicles from time machine you capture the Mighty City easily. Nothing epic.

Personally I was waiting for the Epic Siege of Troy. What I got was Total War: Aegean. The game tries to look like a usual TW-title with all this diplomacy, economy stuff etc. All it needs is a great and scripted story of the Siege of Troy. Maybe would be enough if it were a scripted campaign consisting of a chain of battles and carefully following the Iliad. You already have the great script. Nothing to imagine or invent - just carry it from paper into programming code and orchestrate it nicely to get the Epic Drama.

I thought that was the initial concept of Saga series - to tell local-level or character-oriented stories. Napoleon TW first tried to concentrate on this stuff.

However, the game looks like a DLC for Warhammer 2. Lack of epic things makes it horrible to play. I can't imagine Achilles counting wood and stone and begging Agamemnon for 43 coins for free. WTF?

Probably this all comes from you being unsure on the game's initial idea and setting. Troy as a myth? There are no gods participating in battles. no miracles, no mythic irresistible heroes and creatures.
Troy as real history? OK, where are the Hittites then? The Egyptians? The story of Bronze Age collapse and international politics around the city of Troy?

Why can my armies easily take the CYCLOPIC walls?) Isn't the trick here in the fact that such walls were nearly impossible to break at that time?
Where is the family tree and all these difficult relations between characters? Come on, politics back then was much more personal. Agamemnon had a wife that later killed him because he brought captured Trojan princess with the intention to make her concubine probably. Trojan princes had a father, King Priam. Why there is no mentioning of him but instead you have this **** "Hector faction" and "Paris faction"? Where are the father and mother of Achilles? And BTW this shiny set of armour was made by Hephaestus himself after Achilles lost his panoply to Hector, who killed his friend Patrocles. Oh and by the way, where is Patrocles? Where is Hector's wife? You know, all they are really important characters in Iliad, who sometimes had even decisive impact on the outcome of Trojan War episodes that lasted for 10 long years. Not 8 minutes of taking this settlement in custom battles mode.
You see, Greek myrhs are all about family relations. Love-hate relations. Everything is very close and personal. TW: Troy lacks this. It tries to put a serious face and pretend it's a geopolitics simulator. Too bad.

So all in all all this shiny gameplay stuff is pretty useless as the game hasn't yet decided what it is - a noname Aegean king simulator or a Warhammer 2 Flavour Pack DLC. Definitely not an "Iliad on PC", an "Epic Scale Masterpiece" or anything in between.

Next, to look-and-feel and technical side.
Not bad, very polished, very optimized. No lags, bugs or crashes so far. The problem is the UI. Too overwhelming. Nothing can be seen properly. All these shiny buttons, portraits, MMORPG style buffs. spells, character's weapons and armour, effects, etc,etc just prevent from enjoying the game irself. No empty space, literally. Declutter your game, CA.
Units are literally indestinguishable. Nothing memorable. 50 shades of spearmen. Light spearmen, armoured spearmen, Chosen spearmen, guard spearmen. On the battlefield all this bronzish, brownish colours of troops make it impossible to understand where your troops are and where the enemy troops stand. Every battle turns into a Rome II Pre Emperor Edition style heavy-metal moshpit. The battles are too quick either. And by the way, why can't I choose battlefields myself on the campaign map in the custom battles mode? I wanted to see the Knossos but...there isn't one in maps to choose. Too sad.
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Comments

  • Hex_CaliberHex_Caliber Senior Member BirminghamRegistered Users Posts: 200
    "Saga class Total War games are smaller standalone titles that focus on a flashpoint of history – one of those powder keg moments in time in which anything could have happened. Typically covering just a few years or decades, Sagas aren’t intended to have the scope and scale of an Era Total War game but rather focus on that pivotal moment"

    https://www.totalwar.com/faq/#Design

  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,189
    No much point in family trees if the characters are immortal, and it had nothing to do with the game being unfinished, it's an artistic choice, also total war games always had a difficulty with properly representing non-combatant characters, so at least helen is in the game.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,988
    Troy is a Saga title, which are side games with smaller budgets that are developed and released parallel to the main games. They're not meant to have the scale or the grandeur of other TW games, because their main purpose is to experiment with and test out new mechanics and features, which - if popular - make their way into the main games.
  • AdmiralJelloAdmiralJello Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 530
    ...wait, you think the whole game should have just been a giant siege?

    An 11-year siege might be fertile ground for epic poems, but it would make for a boring TW game. :p
  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    1. "No point in family trees if the characters are immortal" - irrelevant. If they are immortal it doesn't mean they don't have wives, children, brothers, fathers and retinues. The immortality of Zeus didn't prevent him from having a wife Hera and plenty of half-immortal sons from earthly women.
    2. "At least Helen is in the game" - lmao. You could also say "Just thank the CA for adding Helen of Troy in...Total War: TROY" and that would be hillarious as well.
    3. Wait, seriously? Whiskeyjack, you really think it's OK for Saga titles to be just a testing ground?) I have nothing against experiments but not with a pricetag of an AAA project. Let it be "budget Total War" then (it honestly looks like one from my experience with Troy). And certainly not dealing with a landmark event, such as Trojan war.
    4. lello, eh, not quite. Probably something like World in Conflict-style campaign consisting of battles only.

  • November_AMNovember_AM Registered Users Posts: 3
    I would like to elaborate on kallinikon's thoughts.

    Even if the Saga titles aren't meant to be at the scope nor have the budget as the main launches, it only makes people anxious and kind of frustrated getting half a normal Total War. You can't tell me that it is that hard or expensive to just copy-paste good things from previous titles while leaving unpopular ideas behind.

    If you want to focus on a specific moment in history in a specific point of time, you have to have Eyecatchers, like an epic Siege of Troy, to compensate for the things some people might miss or want in the game. And the decisions implementing these things do the Heads of the Company.

    The only thing until now Saga Titles do, are decreasing the reputation of the Studio. I know making games is hard. And you need a lot of smart people doing a lot of hard work. But the programmers are not the ones making the Company-Strategy choices. So while everyone is hating on the game-makers for making a poor game, it would be wisely turning onto the Heads of the Company and make them rethink their money making strategies.

    The consumer ALWAYS wants a whole and nice accentuated product, not a gap filler.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,189

    "No point in family trees if the characters are immortal" - irrelevant. If they are immortal it doesn't mean they don't have wives, children, brothers, fathers and retinues. The immortality of Zeus didn't prevent him from having a wife Hera and plenty of half-immortal sons from earthly women.

    They are not true immortal like Zeus, it's plot armor plus the time is almost not moving in Troy.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161

    1. "No point in family trees if the characters are immortal" - irrelevant. If they are immortal it doesn't mean they don't have wives, children, brothers, fathers and retinues. The immortality of Zeus didn't prevent him from having a wife Hera and plenty of half-immortal sons from earthly women.

    Seriously, what would be the point of a family tree if the next generation never gets a chance to take over? It's also funny when people on the other side complain about characters in R2 and 3K actually dying and then being replaced by their kids. People will always complain.

    What's also funny is that the whole Siege of Troy was a plot by Zeus to get rid of all the various demigods he and his fellow deities had fathered.

  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    Which again is a drawback I just haven't mentioned above. Not feeling time is disorienting. How long did it take them to carry out the whole campaing? 10...turns? And what is a turn? A season? A day? A year? 4 months?

    Ephraim_Daiton, people just assess what they get. Everything has its good and bad sides. Life is dual, you know)

    OK, not a family tree maybe. But CA should have somehow shown these characters and actually given them gravity and roles they deserve. Troy is not Troy without Patrocles, Kassandra, Klitemnestra, etc,etc,etc. If you include Homer as advisor, if you still put emphasis in your marketing campaign on stereotypical imagery of Achilles fighting Hector, of Achilles burying Patrocles (sic!), then by saying "A" say "B" and introduce these characters, if you please. Invent this mechanic in the "experimental" game, add this level of depth.

    No, why bother.
  • RyanLuiRyanLui Registered Users Posts: 128
    the graphic are second best on my list where 3k is first. It is disappointing when siege of troy it just an easy get over the wall and stuff. Huge wall can be climbed by siege equipment and ladder. Does the game make men climb longer on the ladder to get on the wall...
  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    RyanLui, yeah, very disappointing when Troy is so easy to take. I still don't understand why adding some fantasy siege equipment to the era when if they find a huge wall they just sit around and wait for the people to starve eventually.
    Or use some backdoor. Or use a traitor.
  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    edited August 2020
    November_AM, thanks for support.

    Still a game is a complex issue. Blaming only Heads is the same as blaming only devs - should apply complex view of the situation instead. Haha, I think it all looks like Kitchen Nightmares - the dish is crap. Why the dish is crap? Because everyone is uninterested. Poor service, divided management and the chef that doesn't want to cook or is not interested in it. Same problem here I suppose.

    And yeah, you are quite correct by calling this game a "gap-filler". Zero care given. Just copy-paste and lose the plot and purpose of the game.
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    edited August 2020
    Actually, Arch neatly summarized my impression of this game and did it comprehensively (and loong before the release).
    Watch this if you want some critical opinion, which is rare these days


    Link removed as it contains language unsuitable for a family-friendly forum. You;ll need to visit Arch's site to view it.
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    LoL, mention Arsch Warhammer and you've already lost.

  • LESAMALESAMA Member Registered Users Posts: 1,900

    Troy is a Saga title, which are side games with smaller budgets that are developed and released parallel to the main games. They're not meant to have the scale or the grandeur of other TW games, because their main purpose is to experiment with and test out new mechanics and features, which - if popular - make their way into the main games.

    Bravo, and you really believe that?

    Saga titles are ment to fill in the gaps between releases of main titles and dlc’s with a premium price tag vs dlc. It’s just a business model and that’s fine. Every title brings new elements. Not specific saga.

    The main purpose is making money. If saga is commercially not successful the company will drop it.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,455
    Atleast make the siege EPIC!
  • Hex_CaliberHex_Caliber Senior Member BirminghamRegistered Users Posts: 200


    3. Wait, seriously? Whiskeyjack, you really think it's OK for Saga titles to be just a testing ground?) I have nothing against experiments but not with a pricetag of an AAA project. Let it be "budget Total War" then (it honestly looks like one from my experience with Troy). And certainly not dealing with a landmark event, such as Trojan war.


    Most people interested in this title will have picked it up for free from the Epic store, only the **** retentive with a stick up the behind over the Epic store will have stayed away. Unless you are one of the latter, you are complaining about the price of a game you paid nothing for. Seriously, how does that work?

    Further, TW Saga games are not sold at AAA prices, when they are sold, they are cheaper than the Era games. Once the free period is over expect this to retail for around £30, while the typical price of a new Era title (3 Kingdoms) is now around £45. It remains to be seen how much DLC support Troy will get post release, however, we can already get the first DLC free when it releases next month. Era titles on the other hand, have paid DLC releases for a few years after release.

  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    Hex_Caliber, you're talking as if this game is a free Total War. No it is not. Moreover, after that giveaway is over they will require some cash from later customers. And even retail price is too much for the bare-bones game without a **** multiplayer. Where you even can not freely choose the map in custom battles mode. Sounds like feature set for a new DLC, right?)

    I don't care about the platform to play on but making this game a free Epic exclusive speaks for itself. Decent games are not given out for free day 1. Such decision actually helps to shush the criticism that goes (you got that crap for free, you ungrateful bastard!)
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 21,003
    Take it easy folks. It's a game, not life or death.... :)
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
  • BrunoGallasBrunoGallas Registered Users Posts: 4
    Got to agree with kallinikon here:

    The entire story is already written in the Illiad! They could build a history-driven Campaign like Napoleon's TW. That was a good and challenging campaign, where you had some choices to make BUT had to capture/protect the same places as did Napoleon.
    That way you could span the 10-years war of Troy in the entire campaign and only allow you to capture the city of Troy by the end of "X, Y, Z" missions.

    AND... a few months after, they could release the DLC: The Odyssey.
    it's all there. ~2500 years already.


    Even though... I've liked the game. It lacks objective/story and has some pretty hard (food) economy, but I like it.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,988
    LESAMA said:

    Troy is a Saga title, which are side games with smaller budgets that are developed and released parallel to the main games. They're not meant to have the scale or the grandeur of other TW games, because their main purpose is to experiment with and test out new mechanics and features, which - if popular - make their way into the main games.

    Bravo, and you really believe that?

    Saga titles are ment to fill in the gaps between releases of main titles and dlc’s with a premium price tag vs dlc. It’s just a business model and that’s fine. Every title brings new elements. Not specific saga.

    The main purpose is making money. If saga is commercially not successful the company will drop it.
    K.
  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Registered Users Posts: 861

    People will always complain.

    It's almost if people complain about different stuff, because they have different tastes and are not a homogeneous monolith. Shocking, I know.
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Registered Users Posts: 1,900
    edited August 2020



    People will always complain.

    It's almost if people complain about different stuff, because they have different tastes and are not a homogeneous monolith. Shocking, I know.
    Like your thinking. Some people can’t stand it if others have a different view.
  • KoronusKoronus Registered Users Posts: 60
    Honestly I have the feeling too. I can not really put my finger on it but the game feels like something is missing. Well I will wait until all the DLCs are added before I start buying them because for one I have to much to play and for two, my laptop is already 4 years old so those new games are not playing so well.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161
    edited August 2020



    People will always complain.

    It's almost if people complain about different stuff, because they have different tastes and are not a homogeneous monolith. Shocking, I know.
    LoL, standard cookie-cutter answer #312, "bla bla opinion bla bla".

    Which was that CA shouldn't try and please everyone since someone will always complain about wherever the game's going.


  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    Lol, a standart cookie-cutter answer #313 "bla bla developer is always right bla bla"

    Someone will always consume what they are given "as is" and say "you just play it the wrong way" and "you misunderstand a Genius"
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161

    Lol, a standart cookie-cutter answer #313 "bla bla developer is always right bla bla"

    Someone will always consume what they are given "as is" and say "you just play it the wrong way" and "you misunderstand a Genius"

    Salty, salty.

  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Registered Users Posts: 861



    People will always complain.

    It's almost if people complain about different stuff, because they have different tastes and are not a homogeneous monolith. Shocking, I know.
    LoL, standard cookie-cutter answer #312, "bla bla opinion bla bla".

    Which was that CA shouldn't try and please everyone since someone will always complain about wherever the game's going.

    I accept your surrender.
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,161



    People will always complain.

    It's almost if people complain about different stuff, because they have different tastes and are not a homogeneous monolith. Shocking, I know.
    LoL, standard cookie-cutter answer #312, "bla bla opinion bla bla".

    Which was that CA shouldn't try and please everyone since someone will always complain about wherever the game's going.

    I accept your surrender.
    I didn't offer any surrender, LoL.

  • kallinikonkallinikon Registered Users Posts: 87
    If you don't care, don't care. "bla-bla" stuff and downplaying another's opinion is an effective surrender.

    You've decided you must be always right. Sorry, you are not :)
This discussion has been closed.