Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Daydreaming about Guandu DLC. Why BROTHERHOOD could be a good them for the DLC.

2»

Comments

  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870
    Labria said:

    I mean playable horde faction without own land like a few characters in 182 or Sun Ce in 194.

    Sure but Sun Ce in 194 and Cao Cao in 182 have settlements to conquer as their objective, while Guan Yu never helped in taking over settlements while he was under Cao Cao.

    CA can add more gates in the future. B)

    I don't think there is enough room on the campaign map, but if they can work it out somehow it would be great.
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,267
    edited August 24


    Sure but Sun Ce in 194 and Cao Cao in 182 have settlements to conquer as their objective, while Guan Yu never helped in taking over settlements while he was under Cao Cao.

    This will be more like Liu Bei in 182. You don't have own setlement for a few turns. You first main goal will be defeat Yan Liang and Wen Chou.

    Then you will get event for Guan Yu with two choices:
    • Stay with Cao Cao as his vassal(and you can get own land from him)
    • Leave him and go to north to find your brothers. You will have story missions like go through the first gate, second gate etc.
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
    Liu Chong and He Yi should be playable in 194.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870
    Labria said:

    This will be more like Liu Bei in 182. You don't have own setlement for a few turns. You first main goal will be defeat Yan Liang and Wen Chou.

    Liu Bei has characters joining him later on so it makes sense, and because later on he would become a faction leader but Guan Yu just returns to Liu Bei or stays with Cao Cao and was never a faction leader nor did he control any land during this period. I can see why the vassal scenario for Guan Yu makes sense in the late 3 kingdoms period where Guan Yu was defending Jing, but I don't see how it makes sense in the Guan Du scenario.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 485
    If you really want Guan Yu as a vassal faction, it should be in a Fan Castle scenario where he controls Jing Province. It would be really dumb to have Guan Yu as a vassal faction in 200 AD.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,354
    edited August 24
    Totally agree. I think Guan Yu should be made a seperate faction from Liu Bei if they ever do a Hanzhong campaign chapter pack., with him controlling Jing province while Liu Bei commands Yi province. But here in Guandu, it doesn't really make sense.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 485
    To be honest, making him a vassal lord of Jing is still stretching it in my opinion, but I could see it working for gameplay purposes. Him being a vassal lord under Cao Cao is just ridiculous.
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,267

    Labria said:

    This will be more like Liu Bei in 182. You don't have own setlement for a few turns. You first main goal will be defeat Yan Liang and Wen Chou.

    Liu Bei has characters joining him later on so it makes sense, and because later on he would become a faction leader but Guan Yu just returns to Liu Bei or stays with Cao Cao and was never a faction leader nor did he control any land during this period. I can see why the vassal scenario for Guan Yu makes sense in the late 3 kingdoms period where Guan Yu was defending Jing, but I don't see how it makes sense in the Guan Du scenario.
    Yes, Guan Yu make most sense as own playable faction in 219-220 chapter about time of Lü Meng's invasion of Jing Province and real start of Three Kingdoms period.
    After all, Guan Yu is one of most favorite characters from Three Kingdoms period. I think he will get own playable faction soon or later.

    I just think that Guan Yu can be interesting choice for new playable faction in Guandu chapter with big focus to story about Pass Five Gates and Kill Six Generals. Nothing more.
    Obviously, If Liu Bei will join to Guan Yu faction, He should be new leader of faction.

    Most likely, he will be just part of Cao Cao faction in 200 chapter and Liu Bei will get event about his return to him after a few turns.
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
    Liu Chong and He Yi should be playable in 194.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 283
    edited August 24
    I mean to me total war three kingdoms has been strong on both following history and creating interesting what if scenarios for us to try out. This is why I feel 198 or 199 (if they wanna kill off lu bu , gongsun zan and yuan Shu) but honestly while maybe not playable factions in This scenario they may actually do good to show how powerful factions like Cao cao or yuan Shao have gotten by their first mission decimating their opponents

    Guan du was an interesting time remember as before it we had so many situations where Cao cao May of actually lost the fight and I know Guan du is not all about the fight but it massively helped create the 3 kingdoms . Possible what if events include

    Cao Cao recruiting lu bu instead of killing him and the option to confederate zhang xiu who is surrendering to you or to get revenge and kill him

    Yuan Shao searching for his brother (located in a settlement somewhere which if anyone finds him can defeat him for the imperial seal but if yuan shaos finds him before he dies he joins yuan and gives him the imperial seal, maybe Zheng jiang could be in a good spot of finding him making her start interesting if she defeats him and takes over the village as I imagine she would be a roaming faction again at this point

    Zhang Xiu becoming caos vassel (otherwise his faction would get destroyed and would just cause a game over ) or staying independent (or was he a vassel of Liu biao I cant remember) as by 200 he had already joined with Cao cao



    It gives 5-10 more turns before daddy shaos death from 23 to 27 or 33. This is important for I feel 23 turns to have a good outcome for the yuan brothers would be a little short . Having those extra 5-10 turns could make it so you could as yuan tan , xi or shang (I feel all should start as vassels under Shao ) have to gain favor and approval from yuan Shao and his faction . The more things you do the more favor you get and thus the more officers will side with you when yuan Shao dies .

    They cannot actually take any land for themselves until yuan Shao dies but taking land for daddy Shao gives them favor (more points if you are the ruthless yuan tan) , building up your land (more points if you are yuan xi) or just per turn (if you are yuan shang) along with other objectives and missions to help give favor eventually after his death the land will be split into 3 based on how well you did . If you managed to max the bar you would automatically get all the land and officers (including the other brothers) and have no problems with having to fight one another . They also get other bonuses for filling as much of the bar as they can but it depends on who you are

    As for the whole Guan Yu thing what should happen if he was to be playable is you cannot move as Liu beis faction until after yan liangs death (you still fight xia pi and Guan du though as Liu bei/Guan Yu respectively though) after those fights you get control of Guan Yu (the ai will move Liu bei automatically to runan) . As you go along as Guan Yu you will pick up yellow turban officers Liao Hua , Zhou cang (and if you are quick enough to beat zhao yun to pei yuan Shao you may be able to recruit him too as a what if) . When you head to runan you gain the town who is also lead by a yellow turban Liu pi and then you play Liu beis force as normal . It could actually make a very interesting Liu bei playthough if he is able to keep them all as yellow turban officers considering liu pi , Zhou cang , Liao Hua and if he had reached him before zhao yun pei yuan Shao are all yellow turban bandits
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870

    To be honest, making him a vassal lord of Jing is still stretching it in my opinion, but I could see it working for gameplay purposes. Him being a vassal lord under Cao Cao is just ridiculous.

    Lore wise I agree that it kind of is, but judging from the game's pattern where Yuan Tan is Daddy Shao's vassal and Huang Zu is Liu Biao's vassal, I think that Guan Yu being Liu Bei's vassal defending Jing is likely. I mean Huang Zu literally only controlled one commandary in JiangXia nd he was already considered as a vassal. Cai Mao being Liu Biao's vassal in the 190 makes a lot less sense to me though. And yeah, Guan Yu being a vassal of Cao Cao makes no sense at all in my opinion as well.
  • DUONG91DUONG91 Registered Users Posts: 33
    One small note:

    I think Guandu is also a great opportunity to adjust/rework the SUPPLY SYSTEM as supply is a crucial aspect to the win/lose of Guandu. This is also something that can be added to the main campaign.

    As for unigue characters:

    Yuan’s clan: Yan Liang-Wei Chou, Zhang He-Gao Gan, Ju Shou-Shen Pei

    Cao Cao: Cao Hong, Yu Jin, Li Dian

    If this pack can have a scale of the Nanman dlc, Yuan Shao (and maybe also Gongsun Shang) should have some northen flavors, as in forms of unigue army roster and aesthetics to the factions.

    Maybe not all of this can be included, but just some of these added is great.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 485
    Shouldn't Tian Feng, Xu You and Guo Tu be unique?
  • ShevaTsarShevaTsar Registered Users Posts: 323
    DUONG91 said:

    One small note:

    I think Guandu is also a great opportunity to adjust/rework the SUPPLY SYSTEM as supply is a crucial aspect to the win/lose of Guandu. This is also something that can be added to the main campaign.

    As for unigue characters:

    Yuan’s clan: Yan Liang-Wei Chou, Zhang He-Gao Gan, Ju Shou-Shen Pei

    Cao Cao: Cao Hong, Yu Jin, Li Dian

    If this pack can have a scale of the Nanman dlc, Yuan Shao (and maybe also Gongsun Shang) should have some northen flavors, as in forms of unigue army roster and aesthetics to the factions.

    Maybe not all of this can be included, but just some of these added is great.

    CAO PI ????
    Every person on the street knows what is in Sima Zhao's mind
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870
    Also Cao Ren, you know that important guy in Cao Cao's faction who never got a unique model despite playing pretty important roles in the novel? We shouldn't forget Cao Chun the leader of the tiger leopard cavalry and Cao Xiu too.
  • XVypeXXVypeX Registered Users Posts: 282
    Rather than make chapter packs I'd prefer they just flesh out the 190 campaign and make these key moments happen through events. Still not happy that 182 doesn't transition into 190 with the emergence of key factions like Gongsun Zan as he stays with Liu Yu (CA also made it that gongsun Zan is a faction but just didn't add in the script for him to emerge; CA make it happen..) and also no transition from 190 to 194 unless you go faction specific and the events can maybe trigger.

    Even if sandbox and history is random after the first turn, you should still make it able to follow history if you wish it to and the easiest way to do that is through dilemma events.

  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 283
    XVypeX said:

    Rather than make chapter packs I'd prefer they just flesh out the 190 campaign and make these key moments happen through events. Still not happy that 182 doesn't transition into 190 with the emergence of key factions like Gongsun Zan as he stays with Liu Yu (CA also made it that gongsun Zan is a faction but just didn't add in the script for him to emerge; CA make it happen..) and also no transition from 190 to 194 unless you go faction specific and the events can maybe trigger.

    Even if sandbox and history is random after the first turn, you should still make it able to follow history if you wish it to and the easiest way to do that is through dilemma events.

    Problem is ROTK had this problem . It doesent take long for events to eventually break because say you beat 1 faction or 1 guy gets banished/executed who was important and thus it causes a chain reaction . It also makes it more impossible to play as another faction who may form later on . Think about how many times Cao cao gets himself gangs up upon by everyone in total war and gets destroyed and most Cao events won’t happen unless your really playing as him or in 1 case I had lu bu dominating Cao cao in a world betrayed. You would need to structure so many events to allow it to truely happen and even then you’d just end up with a predictive wei/wu/shu 3 kingdoms most times
  • DUONG91DUONG91 Registered Users Posts: 33

    Shouldn't Tian Feng, Xu You and Guo Tu be unique?

    ShevaTsar said:



    CAO PI ????

    Of course, the more the better :smiley: . Its just, if there is a cap, i want those guys first. Also, i’m not sure if i want too many uniques to be added, especially through a FLC like in AWB. I dont know about art, but i think their quality get dumped down.

    (Ah, Tian Feng is good, but he got imprisoned quick. Should he be unique?)
  • LoireLoire Registered Users Posts: 472
    DUONG91 said:



    Of course, the more the better :smiley: . Its just, if there is a cap, i want those guys first. Also, i’m not sure if i want too many uniques to be added, especially through a FLC like in AWB. I dont know about art, but i think their quality get dumped down.

    I have major concerns on the last point as well... quality should never be compromised no matter what... i hope they do rework the art of some AWB characters..
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 283
    DUONG91 said:

    Shouldn't Tian Feng, Xu You and Guo Tu be unique?

    ShevaTsar said:



    CAO PI ????

    Of course, the more the better :smiley: . Its just, if there is a cap, i want those guys first. Also, i’m not sure if i want too many uniques to be added, especially through a FLC like in AWB. I dont know about art, but i think their quality get dumped down.

    (Ah, Tian Feng is good, but he got imprisoned quick. Should he be unique?)
    This is why I feel xin pi might be a better addition over tian feng . He goes on to serve Yuan tan and then eventually Cao cao . Since Shen pei is yuan Shangs strategist it would be good for tan to have someone too like I feel xi should have zhen ji to not only bring circle all of them having a unique but 2/3 being wei officers too . Of course over all of them zhang he seems The best candidate and really hope he becomes a unique in a scenario like this
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870

    I have spoken about this topic with my friends in Serious Trivia discord and because of that I want to share our thought in this matter (Thank you, Gaz for allowing me to write a post about this) and in the end our answer is BROTHERHOOD.

    No silly, the answer is obviously
    you're a traitor!
  • Ostubaf_CattoOstubaf_Catto Registered Users Posts: 138


    No silly, the answer is obviously
    you're a traitor!

    WHO ARE YOU? HOW DID YOU KNOW THE SACRED HE YI??
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,754
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870

    WHO ARE YOU? HOW DID YOU KNOW THE SACRED HE YI??

    Because He Yi, is CHINA!!
  • RyantheFettRyantheFett Registered Users Posts: 10
    edited August 25
    For Guandu I'm betting they will do Liu Biao as well as Yuan Shao as the mains. Both leaders suffer from not picking the right heir and die with a lot of land. Shao had to pick between two sons while Biao had the same choice, but with Liu Bei and the Cai family backing them. House decided or unity theme??

    They rework the vassal system or add another option. Something that allows family members to hold independent lands, they follow every order/can't break away, and you would get some bonus (less corruption?). When the leader dies it could cause civil a war. Works for this chapter pack and future ones like Guan Yu or after Cao Cao/Sun Quan dies.

    Yuan Shao would get a lot of unique officers: Zhange He, his main two sons, Yan Liang/Wei Chou, a few advisers, and zhen ji.

    Liu Biao could get: his two sons, some governors who Liu Bei defeats later, Lady Cai, and Cai Mao (who could even double up as the FLC). Story wise Cai Mao is pretty important minor character and could be the rival to Liu Bei for the control of Jing.

    That would only leave the Ma clan and Liu Zhang as the last two factions to get some love. And they both work prefect for a post Red Cliff chapter pack before we hit three kingdoms.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 283

    For Guandu I'm betting they will do Liu Biao as well as Yuan Shao as the mains. Both leaders suffer from not picking the right heir and die with a lot of land. Shao had to pick between two sons while Biao had the same choice, but with Liu Bei and the Cai family backing them. House decided or unity theme??

    They rework the vassal system or add another option. Something that allows family members to hold independent lands, they follow every order/can't break away, and you would get some bonus (less corruption?). When the leader dies it could cause civil a war. Works for this chapter pack and future ones like Guan Yu or after Cao Cao/Sun Quan dies.

    Yuan Shao would get a lot of unique officers: Zhange He, his main two sons, Yan Liang/Wei Chou, a few advisers, and zhen ji.

    Liu Biao could get: his two sons, some governors who Liu Bei defeats later, Lady Cai, and Cai Mao (who could even double up as the FLC). Story wise Cai Mao is pretty important minor character and could be the rival to Liu Bei for the control of Jing.

    That would only leave the Ma clan and Liu Zhang as the last two factions to get some love. And they both work prefect for a post Red Cliff chapter pack before we hit three kingdoms.

    I do like this idea but I would love to see yuan xi the middle son also be included even if he had a diffrent mechanic over tan and shang

    I like the idea of cai mao and Liu bei trying to fight for control of his land as well as various other governors played a part but probably the most important being han xian who ended up in control of huang Zhong and wei yan . If done right they could have a event after that where the rebellion happens where wei yan kills han Xian and they both join Liu bei
  • ScyvhScyvh Registered Users Posts: 28
    I'd much rather have the Guandu characters available in the main campaign from the start rather than in a seperate dlc . I'm not that convinced Guandu as a date brings that much to the base game (Yuan Shao and Cao Cao are almost always facing off against each other already).

    As for a playable Guan Yu, may I suggest the aftermath of Hanzhong (219) again. Guan Yu in command of Jing (with Guan Ping with him), facing off against Cao Ren; Liu Bei with the choice to go south (Sun Quan) or north (Cao Cao); Cao Pi ready to follow in Cao Cao's footsteps, and with the famous southern generals Lü Meng and Lu Xun ready to make their mark. There's a host of characters that can also be easily added to the base game.
  • SanzquechievSanzquechiev Registered Users Posts: 77
    Here was my comment of old topics
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2616177#Comment_2616177

    Very agree! I can see we look at the same storyline

    One of the interesting story to play is the time when yuan shao vs cao cao and liu bei separated fron his brothers and involved in liu biao's family affair. This should have their own dlc so the suggested character below can get unique design as well

    Yuan shao side: yuan tan, yuan xi, xu you, tian feng, guo tu, chen lin, yan liang, wen chou, zhang he will have unique design

    In the counterpart of cao cao will be cao pi, cao ren, cao zhi, cheng yu, yu jin, cao hong will have unique design

    Other than that maybe liu qi (liu biao), cai mao, cai yan may also have unique design

    One of the famous event about caocao and yuan shao is the poem from chenlin that makes cao cao illness cured due to his sarcastic and cruel word.. even yuan shao was destroyed, cao cao did not executed chen lin and even put him under a official position due to his poetry skill above cao zhi (cao cao's opinion)

    From here i wish there will be many more of new ancilliaries like books in the game :D

    The other is about defection of xu you to cao cao but still dead by xu chu. Lol

    In this time liu bei will be vassal of yuan shao with regionless and guan yu will be in cao cao faction and will have event to release him back to meet liu bei after yuan shao defeated...
    Oh and also guanyu will have red hare equipped already!


    From my comment.. i think it so small to just bring the story of cao cao vs yuan shao into dlc...should have another things to add with this..maybe the conflict of liu biao internal affair should be included too when liu bei took shelter after yuan shao defeat..

    With the title of dlc of family affair dillema...just like a world betrayed with the theme of father betrayal... This yuan shao family conflict due to his children and conflict in liu biao' family including cao cao dilemma to his successor, will be aligned to be a package of same story :smiley:

  • SanzquechievSanzquechiev Registered Users Posts: 77
    edited August 26
    Here is my comments on one of the old topics in the forum
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2616177#Comment_2616177

    Dont forget liu qi struggling for successor after his father death with his little step brother from cai yan bloodline!

    I can see we both see the same storyline!

    One of the interesting story to play is the time when yuan shao vs cao cao and liu bei separated fron his brothers and involved in liu biao's family affair. This should have their own dlc so the suggested character below can get unique design as well

    Yuan shao side: yuan tan, yuan xi, xu you, tian feng, guo tu, chen lin, yan liang, wen chou, zhang he will have unique design

    In the counterpart of cao cao will be cao pi, cao ren, cao zhi, cheng yu, yu jin, cao hong will have unique design

    Other than that maybe liu qi (liu biao), cai mao, cai yan may also have unique design

    One of the famous event about caocao and yuan shao is the poem from chenlin that makes cao cao illness cured due to his sarcastic and cruel word.. even yuan shao was destroyed, cao cao did not executed chen lin and even put him under a official position due to his poetry skill above cao zhi (cao cao's opinion)

    From here i wish there will be many more of new ancilliaries like books in the game :D

    The other is about defection of xu you to cao cao but still dead by xu chu. Lol

    In this time liu bei will be vassal of yuan shao with regionless and guan yu will be in cao cao faction and will have event to release him back to meet liu bei after yuan shao defeated...
    Oh and also guanyu will have red hare equipped already!


    From my comment.. i think it so small to just bring the story of cao cao vs yuan shao into dlc...should have another things to add with this..maybe the conflict of liu biao internal affair should be included too when liu bei took shelter after yuan shao defeat..

    With the title of dlc of family affair dillema...just like a world betrayed with the theme of father betrayal... This yuan shao family conflict due to his children and conflict in liu biao' family including cao cao dilemma to his successor, will be aligned to be a package of same story :smiley:

Sign In or Register to comment.