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Hidden Viper Unique Formation Stance Useless?

ScicotheronScicotheron Registered Users Posts: 36

So the new Hidden Vipers get a mixed missile stance similar to chen royalguards and azure dragons, however there isn't much benefits to really do this. For a stance that locks you in place you don't get any buffs while the other two give reflection vs mounted. It would make sense to give this formation charge negation vs mounted like shieldwall as the front row is bracing for attacks.

Comments

  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,682
    It's still a braced stance isn't it ?
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  • ScicotheronScicotheron Registered Users Posts: 36
    The units looked brace but they still take full damage to cav charges cause they don't get the brace/negate charge effect.
  • Bob1219Bob1219 Registered Users Posts: 41
    edited September 2020
    The thing about hidden vipers is that their missile attack is ****, and all you need is one missile to damage the enemy unit for their entire unit to be poisoned. So my strat is to just put them in that stance and let them be basically frontline units as their armor and evasion is decent enough to hold and their poison can kill any infantry.

    Edit: While I said "basically frontline", they're still considered light units. So while they can hold, they aren't like heavy spears in shieldwall. They're more like braced Ji Infantry with a giant ass shield.
    Post edited by Bob1219 on
  • biggggteddbiggggtedd Registered Users Posts: 14
    A bit off topic but are the poison units any good?
  • Bob1219Bob1219 Registered Users Posts: 41
    imo they're great, but friendly fire is a pain to handle. One thing that bugs me is that it doesn't count poison damage as kills for the unit. So even though their kill count is low, they probably killed like 10x their kill count.
  • AgentGBAgentGB Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 561
    edited September 2020
    I think Hidden Vipers are probably one of the best units to have in an army. They give alot of flexibility. I treat them like a spec op unit.

    With their mixed formation & stalk. You can sneak into a city then create a foothold using mixed formation in a forlorn action.

    Or you can use them as a vanguard unit to catch an enemy in unfavorable ground, or a perfect flanking ambushing unit.

    I tend to always take atleast 3 and often use them as a frontline unit in mixed formation. Then once they are engaged & soak up the enemy attack i counter charge with the rest of my forces. The fact they have stalk and the mixed formation allows them to always particapte in key actions and turn the battle. Plus the poison can be devastating if used in union with other unit. They can synergize well with Nanman slingers who will negate any charge with one hit from their slings, but even so Hidden Vipers can eat a charge relatively well for a supposed ranged unit when deployed in mixed formation
  • ScicotheronScicotheron Registered Users Posts: 36
    I have no doubts about their effectiveness when fighting in melee given their stats and mixed missiles does allow them to perform well in infantry engagements. Was just concern why their mixed missile stance doesn't have charge negation/reflection like other such immobile stances for use against cavalry from the han. Probably should have reworded title as "why no charge negation" instead of "useless".

    I guess if you have the skill that provides charge reflection for whole retinue this isn't needed; although that skill sounds pretty op if it effects all braced infantry!
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 4,230

    A bit off topic but are the poison units any good?

    They're insane. Probably broken.

    I fought a battle against an army with about 12 of the damn things. They didn't seem to do much direct damage or rack up a lot of kills, but the passive poison damage they inflict over time is bonkers.
  • ScratcH1ScratcH1 Registered Users Posts: 183
    edited September 2020

    I have no doubts about their effectiveness when fighting in melee given their stats and mixed missiles does allow them to perform well in infantry engagements. Was just concern why their mixed missile stance doesn't have charge negation/reflection like other such immobile stances for use against cavalry from the han. Probably should have reworded title as "why no charge negation" instead of "useless".

    I guess if you have the skill that provides charge reflection for whole retinue this isn't needed; although that skill sounds pretty op if it effects all braced infantry!

    They likely don't have charge reflection/negation because they're equipped with machetes after all and not with spears. In addition, one could also say that the Nanman don't really use formations as effectively as the Han.
  • ScicotheronScicotheron Registered Users Posts: 36
    ScratcH1 said:



    They likely don't have charge reflection/negation because they're equipped with machetes after all and not with spears. In addition, one could also say that the Nanman don't really use formations as effectively as the Han.

    I know charge reflection would be much cause they don't have spears, however the stance mimics shield wall which provides charge negation like how azure dragons and chen royalgaurd mimic spear/shield wall(spear). Also idk about using formations as effectively when they can get global access as long as they get the tech for it while han requires strategist/commander and the yellow turbans need ancillaries to use them.

    It's honestly not something to worry about much outside of multiplayer cause of op skills or mods as multiplayer is dead, just a weird inconsistency among many others that may or not be bugs or oversights.
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