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Big Dongs death should be reworked

ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 11,397
I think CA should really rework the events following after Big Dongs assassination by Lü Bu.

This goes for the AI as well as for the player.

He dies in 99% of all campaigns and is succeeded by that pathetic little rat Dong Min.

There should be a dilemma where you as the player can decide if Lü Bu, Li Jue or another one of his subordinates take over the faction.

Right now if you declare Lü Bu as your heir he just automatically becomes your faction leader like nothing happened. The whole conflict between Li Ru, Li Jue, Guo Si and Lü Bu gets completely ignored which is a bit sad.

If you don’t play Big Dong, the succession should be historical and Li Jue should take over the faction while Lü Bu and Zhang Liao leave the faction.

While we are at it, Guo Si should get a unique model.

Comments

  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,267
    edited September 18
    Dong Min make no sense as leader after Dong Zhuo. This is big unhistorically nonsense. After death of Dong Zhuo, all members of whole clan was execute inclusive of his young brother.

    Dong Zhuo faction should have these leaders:
    Dong Zhuo -> Wang Yun with Lu Bu -> Li Jue

    Wang Yun with Lu Bu take control of capital city after death of Dong Zhuo and his family. But Wang Yun refused to do amnesty for Li Jue and Guo Si. They assembled their own army and conquered the capital. Wang Yun committed suicide and Lu Bu fleet to east.

    We should have a few events about this story or real civil war between Lu Bu forces and Li Jue forces after death of Dong Zhuo.

    If you play Dong Zhuo faction and kill him with Lu Bu. You should have event about support Lu Bu or Li Jue in civil war. It doesn't matter who you choose. Second guy and his followers will leave your faction, make own faction and declare war on you.
    After all, only Dong Zhuo holding these two forces together. You should have consequences if you kill your faction leader. >:)

    Sure, CA can skip this Wang Yun vs Li Jue/Guo Si plot for Dogn Zhuo AI faction and simple make Li Jue new leader after Dong Zhuo death.
    Lu Bu and his guys should have new own Lu Bu faction close to Cao Cao teritory like 194 campaign.
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
    Liu Chong and He Yi should be playable in 194.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 2,870
    The Big Dong dies way too often, and if this is going to remain the case at least make Dong Min unique.
  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 91
    It would be nice to have a more cohesive singular timeline but this game is built around chapters being well like different chapters although it ends up being more like different books or fan fic than different chapters in a singular story.

    That's why they made AWB. Basically if you want a much much more open ended sand box go with the 190 start. But if you want a campaign closer mirroring ROTK then you have to do the 194 start date. I know it's far from an ideal solution but CA already said that's the best we're gonna get.

    I think removing dong ming from the game and making Li Jue take over would be a solution that doesn't harm much. To make it work I think you'd have to make sure Li Jue doesn't leave dong zhou for the recruit pool (like how Lu bu doesn't outside of player marriage intervention)

    You know how the emperor wont defect from dong but as soon as you take his capital you lose that buff and can literally have the emperor swiped on that end turn. If they could do that between lu bu and Li Jue where as soon as Li Jue inherits the faction Lu Bu is kicked out creating the lu bu faction I think the 190 start would benefit a lot.

    But again they said its not gonna happen and their focus is gonna be future chapter and expansion and culture packs not going backwards. Same with them saying records mode won't be receiving abilities (like older historical titles had) or the ability for generals to fire arrows.

    I think a justification for it is when you play as dong you probably dont want to just have lubu kill you so you try to carry on the dong family lineage. removing the dong family prevents that from happening and trying to balance it all was more effort than its worth considering they cant charge money to put that in game retroactively as a update to 190 start.

    So thats how I view AWB - it was the solution they could come up with and actually do because they could sell it and it posed no risk to messing up anything in 190 whilst allowing a specific set of new abilities and goals. For example they said they do not know how to change dong zhou's intimidation to what ever lu bu's awb thing is called. So a 190 lubu faction leader has intimidate faction mechanic even after awb came out. Same thing with sun ce recklessness. He keeps heroism from sun jian after his death and same onto the next.
  • Qin_FengQin_Feng Registered Users Posts: 236
    Weird, I find the big dong doesn't die often enough.
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,267

    It would be nice to have a more cohesive singular timeline but this game is built around chapters being well like different chapters although it ends up being more like different books or fan fic than different chapters in a singular story.

    That's why they made AWB. Basically if you want a much much more open ended sand box go with the 190 start. But if you want a campaign closer mirroring ROTK then you have to do the 194 start date. I know it's far from an ideal solution but CA already said that's the best we're gonna get.

    I think removing dong ming from the game and making Li Jue take over would be a solution that doesn't harm much. To make it work I think you'd have to make sure Li Jue doesn't leave dong zhou for the recruit pool (like how Lu bu doesn't outside of player marriage intervention)

    You know how the emperor wont defect from dong but as soon as you take his capital you lose that buff and can literally have the emperor swiped on that end turn. If they could do that between lu bu and Li Jue where as soon as Li Jue inherits the faction Lu Bu is kicked out creating the lu bu faction I think the 190 start would benefit a lot.

    But again they said its not gonna happen and their focus is gonna be future chapter and expansion and culture packs not going backwards. Same with them saying records mode won't be receiving abilities (like older historical titles had) or the ability for generals to fire arrows.

    I think a justification for it is when you play as dong you probably dont want to just have lubu kill you so you try to carry on the dong family lineage. removing the dong family prevents that from happening and trying to balance it all was more effort than its worth considering they cant charge money to put that in game retroactively as a update to 190 start.

    So thats how I view AWB - it was the solution they could come up with and actually do because they could sell it and it posed no risk to messing up anything in 190 whilst allowing a specific set of new abilities and goals. For example they said they do not know how to change dong zhou's intimidation to what ever lu bu's awb thing is called. So a 190 lubu faction leader has intimidate faction mechanic even after awb came out. Same thing with sun ce recklessness. He keeps heroism from sun jian after his death and same onto the next.

    I have idea for most easy solution of Dong Min problem. Maybe Lu Bu can simple be part of Dong Zhou family tree and his heir. This will fix all problems with Dong Min faction as leader after death of Dong Zhou.

    Also, Li Jue(with Jia Xu and Guo Si) can be vassal faction for Dong Zhou in 190. After all, Dong Zhou faction will still have many unique characters without them.

    Li Jue faction gain freedom after death of Dong Zhou and declare war to Lu Bu faction. So we will have Lu Bu vs Li Jue conflict in campaign and no more Dong Min as leader of faction. :D

    This will also make option to have Li Jue as new playable FLC faction for 190 and 194. :D
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
    Liu Chong and He Yi should be playable in 194.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 283
    edited September 18
    Labria said:

    It would be nice to have a more cohesive singular timeline but this game is built around chapters being well like different chapters although it ends up being more like different books or fan fic than different chapters in a singular story.

    That's why they made AWB. Basically if you want a much much more open ended sand box go with the 190 start. But if you want a campaign closer mirroring ROTK then you have to do the 194 start date. I know it's far from an ideal solution but CA already said that's the best we're gonna get.

    I think removing dong ming from the game and making Li Jue take over would be a solution that doesn't harm much. To make it work I think you'd have to make sure Li Jue doesn't leave dong zhou for the recruit pool (like how Lu bu doesn't outside of player marriage intervention)

    You know how the emperor wont defect from dong but as soon as you take his capital you lose that buff and can literally have the emperor swiped on that end turn. If they could do that between lu bu and Li Jue where as soon as Li Jue inherits the faction Lu Bu is kicked out creating the lu bu faction I think the 190 start would benefit a lot.

    But again they said its not gonna happen and their focus is gonna be future chapter and expansion and culture packs not going backwards. Same with them saying records mode won't be receiving abilities (like older historical titles had) or the ability for generals to fire arrows.

    I think a justification for it is when you play as dong you probably dont want to just have lubu kill you so you try to carry on the dong family lineage. removing the dong family prevents that from happening and trying to balance it all was more effort than its worth considering they cant charge money to put that in game retroactively as a update to 190 start.

    So thats how I view AWB - it was the solution they could come up with and actually do because they could sell it and it posed no risk to messing up anything in 190 whilst allowing a specific set of new abilities and goals. For example they said they do not know how to change dong zhou's intimidation to what ever lu bu's awb thing is called. So a 190 lubu faction leader has intimidate faction mechanic even after awb came out. Same thing with sun ce recklessness. He keeps heroism from sun jian after his death and same onto the next.

    I have idea for most easy solution of Dong Min problem. Maybe Lu Bu can simple be part of Dong Zhou family tree and his heir. This will fix all problems with Dong Min faction as leader after death of Dong Zhou.

    Also, Li Jue(with Jia Xu and Guo Si) can be vassal faction for Dong Zhou in 190. After all, Dong Zhou faction will still have many unique characters without them.

    Li Jue faction gain freedom after death of Dong Zhou and declare war to Lu Bu faction. So we will have Lu Bu vs Li Jue conflict in campaign and no more Dong Min as leader of faction. :D

    This will also make option to have Li Jue as new playable FLC faction for 190 and 194. :D
    To me I feel we should have dong zhuo have a special alliance from the beginning instread of vassels . These allies being Wang Yun , Li Rue , Guo Si (who is vassel of li rue) , and Zhang Ji. When playing as dong he can possibly consume them like if they were vassels but otherwise they work as a 5 man force keeping the strength of the dong zhuo faction . If the player is playing Dong Zhuo and dong zhuo get assassinated Wang Yun leave the dong zhuo coalition and go to war with Dong Min who would be Dong Zhuos faction heir while the coalition with Dong Min now is renamed the Dong Zhuo Loyalists or remnants

    In the case of the event from a non player view
    The coalition breaks up and the land is split 5 ways with 2 coalitions being formed the dong zhuo loyalists under Li Jue , Guo Si and Zhang Ji and the han loyalists of Wang Yun which both declare war on each other . If not playing as dong zhuo li ru and dong min will either be gotten rid of (I prefer this option so they are still available for recruitment for other factions) or the more historic path of them both being executed .



    This then allows a Wang Yun , a Li Jue faction and a Zhang Ji faction which they can all have their own way of playing like Wang Yun being manipulative and having new commands with spies (lu bu and diaochan being set as a spy in dong zhuos faction with his mission to execute the plan of killing dong zhuo). And also has Xu Rong who was known to be pretty good (I mean he beat Cao Caos force and sun jians force so the guy warrants being good ) he also gets zhang Liao as a officer on top of lu bu and diao chan

    Li Jue being more about a mechanic to stay on good terms with his vassel Guo Si but should he be able to control it guo si will stay a loyal vassel and li jue will get bonuses for keeping him loyal

    idk what zhang Jis mechanic could be . I more so mentioned him as a seperate faction because a people have wanted a zhang xiu faction . Zhang xia and hu che er who alone they could do a nice unique design of coming from the Middle East .

    This also comes into play with the whole lack of new champions discussion because guo si , Xu Rong and I imagine hu che er (who from the discription about him could lift 500 jin or 250KG ) would help give more unique champions
    Post edited by MasterSlayeX on
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Registered Users Posts: 2,409
    Yep, already made a post about it ages ago... they still haven't made changes like it though :( maybe it will come later.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/250793/dong-zhuos-death-campaign-mechanics-with-it#latest
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • DruidsbrookDruidsbrook Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 155
    Just once I'd like a campaign where Dong doesnt die early I just really want that Big Dong showdown.
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