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Greenskin Missile Cav

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  • DaBoyzAreBackInTownDaBoyzAreBackInTown Registered Users Posts: 174
    Still haven't seen a good explanation for how this change will help rush factions that are unfavoured vs Greenskins like Norsca/Chaos/Beastmen/Bretonnia, or how it will help box factions like Dwarfs/Skaven against Greenskins either.

    Over-reliance on skirmish vs Greenskins for some factions is the result of other parts of their roster being too strong (and too much ITP), it has nothing to do with the design or cost of their skirmish cav. All changing it will do is homogenise the rosters and attack the symptoms but not the cause of the problem.

    Paradoxend had a reasonable list, I would also consider looking at boar cav armour and FGSR small cost increase possibly.

  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,057

    Still haven't seen a good explanation for how this change will help rush factions that are unfavoured vs Greenskins like Norsca/Chaos/Beastmen/Bretonnia, or how it will help box factions like Dwarfs/Skaven against Greenskins either.

    Over-reliance on skirmish vs Greenskins for some factions is the result of other parts of their roster being too strong (and too much ITP), it has nothing to do with the design or cost of their skirmish cav. All changing it will do is homogenise the rosters and attack the symptoms but not the cause of the problem.

    Paradoxend had a reasonable list, I would also consider looking at boar cav armour and FGSR small cost increase possibly.

    this is just one of many needed nerfs. Other stuff would also get nerfed. For example, Norsca would get help in the form of Stone Trolls getting toned down gently and ItP aura being removed from Hero slot.

    Missile cav for 350g is structurally problematic because due to how dodging and exchanges of volleys work in Multiplayer it is too good. It can compete with 500+g missile cav with no problem.

    Buffing GS missile cav while raising its price would help campaign players also, currently units like Spider Riders/Wolf Riders are very bad in campaign because they are not worth picking up in an army... if they were a bit better they could at least be an early game unit and an emergency unit when you can't recruit anything else.
  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 427
    I'm not sold on buffing Greenskin missile cav in line with a price increase. Weak skirmish cavalry is part of the Greenskin flavour, these are annoying little Goblin units. I like that they are tricky to get "value" against, instead of making a quick decision about gold price, the enemy player needs to calculate their impact on the battlefield. Remember, nothing else in the game is quite the same as these units, even Chaos Dwarf Hobgoblin skirmishers will be more elite. This gives the game character.

    I think a modest price increase, to the tune of about 25g each, is the best way of balancing them. If the other OP elements of the roster are also softened, this would be enough.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,353
    Against low armour they are incredibly cost efficient and spammable, they need to be less spammable.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,832
    Lol less spammable goblins
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  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,342
    I advise a 50g pricecut, since they deserve it as much as the Ellyrian Reaver archers did.

  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,057

    I advise a 50g pricecut, since they deserve it as much as the Ellyrian Reaver archers did.

    False.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,832

    I advise a 50g pricecut, since they deserve it as much as the Ellyrian Reaver archers did.

    Pretty much, players should quit the game if entire flanks get collapsed by a $350 gobbo with 1 ap.

    Then again last time i checked skaven slaves managed to plow thru the entire frontline, so hardly surprising
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  • Dustin_Dustin_ Registered Users Posts: 59
    they are too cheap, i think wolf rider archer + 50 gold should be a good start.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,342
    Dustin_ said:

    they are too expensive, i think wolf rider archer - 500 gold should be a good start.

    FTFY

  • DwarfSizedBeardDwarfSizedBeard Registered Users Posts: 936
    blindjonn said:

    I'm not sold on buffing Greenskin missile cav in line with a price increase. Weak skirmish cavalry is part of the Greenskin flavour, these are annoying little Goblin units. I like that they are tricky to get "value" against, instead of making a quick decision about gold price, the enemy player needs to calculate their impact on the battlefield. Remember, nothing else in the game is quite the same as these units, even Chaos Dwarf Hobgoblin skirmishers will be more elite. This gives the game character.

    I think a modest price increase, to the tune of about 25g each, is the best way of balancing them. If the other OP elements of the roster are also softened, this would be enough.

    just increase the unit size for increasing the price, as is they are just cheap, they are not bad by any metric
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,109
    They are annoying but not sure they are too strong.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,832
    edited September 21


    just increase the unit size for increasing the price, as is they are just cheap, they are not bad by any metric

    VERY interesting idea. This is actually extremely nice suggestion. U know those frikking stupid annoying cap of 20. U cant bring slaves, cant bring pesaants, gobbos etc because they cap the crap out of u.

    Now, if u double the price and double the unit size.
    U get a $600 wolfriders, shares the same low ld, routing 1 is akin to routing 2 wolves.

    CA needs to seriously consider this, especially on all expendable units.
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  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 6,364
    edited September 21
    Wolf riders 350
    Wolf rider archers 400
    Spider riders 475
    Spider rider archers 525

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,057

    Wolf riders 350
    Wolf rider archers 400
    Spider riders 475
    Spider rider archers 525

    Wolf Riders are the main offender of the 4, I think they should be rebalanced at 400-450g (either one of the 2 works). Spider Riders are brought for poison mostly as their speed is otherwise not great (78) so they can get caught circumstantially.

    The classic combo that is brought vs most factions is:

    3 Wolf Rider Archers (1050g)
    1 RoR Wolf Riders (iirc 600g)
    1 Spider Rider Archers (for Poison, iirc 450g?)

    Total of 2200g, punches like 2500-3000g of missile cav by most other factions at range.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 7,832
    Green0 said:


    The classic combo that is brought vs most factions is:

    3 Wolf Rider Archers (1050g)
    1 RoR Wolf Riders (iirc 600g)
    1 Spider Rider Archers (for Poison, iirc 450g?)

    Total of 2200g, punches like 2500-3000g of missile cav by most other factions at range.

    Lmfao, someone actually tries to sell this to CA saying its worth the same as 4 reaver archers at $3000.

    4 wolf riders + 1 spider = 4 reaver archers

    This is pretty great, its like peasant bowman stronger than helf archers 2.0 in a dif format
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  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,057
    yst said:

    Green0 said:


    The classic combo that is brought vs most factions is:

    3 Wolf Rider Archers (1050g)
    1 RoR Wolf Riders (iirc 600g)
    1 Spider Rider Archers (for Poison, iirc 450g?)

    Total of 2200g, punches like 2500-3000g of missile cav by most other factions at range.

    Lmfao, someone actually tries to sell this to CA saying its worth the same as 4 reaver archers at $3000.

    4 wolf riders + 1 spider = 4 reaver archers

    This is pretty great, its like peasant bowman stronger than helf archers 2.0 in a dif format
    yeah except the 600g is RoR, this skirmish contingent has poison and the HE one doesn't... small differences...

    Technically if you wanna go by PURE firepower, 5 Goblin Wolf Riders @1750g > 4 Reavers @3000g by far if it comes to a pure skirmish fight (I assume here that both sides dodge arrows and not let the Goblins actually die to ranged from Reavers of course).
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