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Broken collisions - Pull-through exploit

JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
edited September 2020 in General Discussion
Hello guys,

I would like to talk about collisions and the pull-through exploit on TW saga : troy. Actually with a movement order behing ennemy units Centaurs and giants can overturn them even heavy units.
I uploaded some examples to show you :

Giants : (51 sec)
Centaurs : (23 sec)

You are going to tell me : " it's ok they just fall over they dont lose HP". Indeed but when infantry is engaged in melee and you do this, the units can no longer inflict damages (because they fell over, they cant fight) and suffer a significant loss of morale. An other thing; imagine being able to cross a line of heavy infantry like this to fetch the archers defended behind.

I noticed something else : this exploit do some damage when the units retreat.

In multiplayer I'm not sure players will like it when i will do this to them, they wont even be able to react before to realize the entier retreat of their own army.

Let me know what you think about that guys ? And is it fixable ?
Post edited by JeanClovis on

Comments

  • epic_159817030363AS6d3l9epic_159817030363AS6d3l9 Registered Users Posts: 89
    Ok that looks hilarious xD
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 1,347
    You should give examples where you are getting attacked... Walking vanguard giants through heavy spears is suicide
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    Bastilean said:

    You should give examples where you are getting attacked... Walking vanguard giants through heavy spears is suicide

    You can try it your self, I showed you it is not suicide. In the example this is heavy spearmen and i used light giants.
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 1,347

    Bastilean said:

    You should give examples where you are getting attacked... Walking vanguard giants through heavy spears is suicide

    You can try it your self, I showed you it is not suicide. In the example this is heavy spearmen and i used light giants.
    Those guys are clearly not moving at all. They aren't attacking.
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    edited September 2020
    In both examples they are moving and attacking, just read my text. You didn't understand the real problem, I don't know how to explain this better to players under 30 hours.
    Post edited by JeanClovis on
  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 95
    edited September 2020
    Bastilean said:

    Bastilean said:

    You should give examples where you are getting attacked... Walking vanguard giants through heavy spears is suicide

    You can try it your self, I showed you it is not suicide. In the example this is heavy spearmen and i used light giants.
    Those guys are clearly not moving at all. They aren't attacking.
    Bastillion, in total war games units automatically attack and defend, in fact by issuing an attack order he would make them unbrace. His example is far more telling that what you are suggesting he do.

    ** In fact the second video is what I mean by unbraced. The issue at hand is the way all these high mass units are treated like 18 wheelers. In no fathomable world should flesh and blood things act like this.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,144
    edited September 2020
    Bastilean said:

    Bastilean said:

    You should give examples where you are getting attacked... Walking vanguard giants through heavy spears is suicide

    You can try it your self, I showed you it is not suicide. In the example this is heavy spearmen and i used light giants.
    Those guys are clearly not moving at all. They aren't attacking.
    Not moving? So they are braced. If they are braced therefore they shouldn't be mowed down so easily.
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    edited September 2020
    I saw than this Bastilean guy contradicting every body on many subjects from this forum. I asked him why in pm and how much hours did he spend on this game. He told me 300 turns... so almost nothing. We can't rely on a beginner's opinion or his advices.

    I am very experienced on this game and i know what I'm talking about. so let me tell you that he made me laugh a lot.

    This is my play time : 425 hours (Finished all campaigns in veteran difficulty)






  • coolskillcoolskill Registered Users Posts: 233

    I asked him why in pm and how much hours did he spend on this game.

    Probably not a good idea to name users. But this is correct. He has absolutely no clue what he's talking about or how this game works. He tried to tell me that user cannot do anything about ai faction attitude going up and down. And everybody's campaign is exactly the same how ai factions function. Despite the absolute fact ai factions will respond to you differently based on your diplomacy management with them.

    Also, in your OP, nobody is saying they don't lose HP. It is a question being asked. If they lose HP or not in order to understand what is going on. You have not answered the question. Do those cavalries do HP damage or do they just make them fall over? That is a question not a statement. What is the HP damage they do? Is it zero? It is a question to you.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,292

    I saw than this Bastilean guy contradicting every body on many subjects from this forum. I asked him why in pm and how much hours did he spend on this game. He told me 300 turns... so almost nothing. We can't rely on a beginner's opinion or his advices.

    I am very experienced on this game and i know what I'm talking about. so let me tell you that he made me laugh a lot.

    This is my play time : 425 hours (Finished all campaigns in veteran difficulty)






    Did he allow you to blab about the content of your private conversations? You know, that's why they're called "private", right?

  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 20,756
    Stick with the thread topic folks.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    coolskill said:

    Also, in your OP, nobody is saying they don't lose HP. It is a question being asked. If they lose HP or not in order to understand what is going on. You have not answered the question. Do those cavalries do HP damage or do they just make them fall over? That is a question not a statement. What is the HP damage they do? Is it zero? It is a question to you.


    So, I'll repeat myself (already said in my first text) :

    They just fall over they dont lose HP but when infantry is engaged in melee and you do this, the units can no longer inflict damages (because they fell over, they cant fight) and suffer a significant loss of morale, this is the major problem.
    I noticed than it do some damage when the units retreat. Cant tell you how much.

    When you attack from behind with cavalry the impact of the charge is almost non-existent, going through seems have more impact on morale.
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 38,570
    Next time you get a post pulled for moderation it would be better to wait for approval rather than trying to repost it.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    edited September 2020
    It's my bad, I am so sorry. Can i delete ?

  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 38,570

    It's my bad, I am so sorry. Can i delete ?

    You can't but I can and have done.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • coolskillcoolskill Registered Users Posts: 233

    So, I'll repeat myself (already said in my first text) :

    They just fall over they dont lose HP

    Yes you didn't actually say this. That was the part that was unclear. Because that was the question being asked. If they lose HP or not. Which never got answered.

    OK so those monsters just knock them down, and stun them. So maybe it's too long and there needs to be some kind of adjustment.
  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 95
    coolskill said:

    So, I'll repeat myself (already said in my first text) :

    They just fall over they dont lose HP

    Yes you didn't actually say this. That was the part that was unclear. Because that was the question being asked. If they lose HP or not. Which never got answered.

    OK so those monsters just knock them down, and stun them. So maybe it's too long and there needs to be some kind of adjustment.
    Dude what? In the OP it literally says "You are going to tell me : " it's ok they just fall over they dont lose HP". Indeed but when infantry is engaged in melee and you do this, the units can no longer inflict damages (because they fell over, they cant fight) and suffer a significant loss of morale. An other thing; imagine being able to cross a line of heavy infantry like this to fetch the archers defended behind.

    I noticed something else : this exploit do some damage when the units retreat."
  • coolskillcoolskill Registered Users Posts: 233

    Dude what? In the OP it literally says "You are going to tell me : " it's ok they just fall over they dont lose HP".

    Despite no other way to say something. Oh, but you think Troy is a mobile game. Ya OK.

    OP already gave a response clarifying the question. The end.
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    "OK so those monsters just knock them down, and stun them. So maybe it's too long and there needs to be some kind of adjustment."

    Problem is not that is too long, this thing should not happen. In no Total War this exploit is possible, on a physics realism point of view it's ugly and you can use it to your advantage.
  • coolskillcoolskill Registered Users Posts: 233

    Problem is not that is too long, this thing should not happen. In no Total War this exploit is possible, on a physics realism point of view it's ugly and you can use it to your advantage.

    There's really nothing ugly. There's games with much worse graphics. And most of the graphics in this are quite nice. This in particular, is perfectly fine. Not sure what you want to change. If it shouldn't happen, then maybe they can do something else. But there still needs to be a separation between mythicals and regulars that can make mythicals worth going for.
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    You have serious problem to read and understand what I mean. I said the physics is bad, at no time I spoke about graphics.
    With regards to mythicals and regulars, Devs chose the human appearance. It is not because it is a mythical unit that it can go through in this way. I don't think they wanted it.
  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 95
    edited September 2020
    coolskill said:

    Dude what? In the OP it literally says "You are going to tell me : " it's ok they just fall over they dont lose HP".

    Despite no other way to say something. Oh, but you think Troy is a mobile game. Ya OK.

    OP already gave a response clarifying the question. The end.
    Not only irrelevant to anything here but once again inflammatory behavior from you cool skill when you see an opinion you disagree with.

    I would gladly defend my opinion on troy being shallow and providing a mobile game feel but this thread is not the place and you're merely bring it up as though it's some sort of insult which only discredits you and your opinions further.
    Post edited by Dutchbannger on
  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 95

    It's my bad, I am so sorry. Can i delete ?

    You can't but I can and have done.
    Yo billy this cool skill guy goes all around these forums being inflammatory and fighting with everyone how do I report a profile.
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    coolskill said:

    You have serious problem to read and understand what I mean. I said the physics is bad, at no time I spoke about graphics.
    With regards to mythicals and regulars, Devs chose the human appearance. It is not because it is a mythical unit that it can go through in this way. I don't think they wanted it.

    No you have a serious problem understanding what you're writing. Since you're just talking complete semantics. You stated that "it's ugly". It doesn't matter what you call the animations. Physics or graphics. It does not change the point.

    What does human appearance have to do with anything? Everything was about their value in the game for use in combat. There have been other similar 'glitches' mentioned regarding units going through other units. And nobody seems to be able to determine if it's a glitch or if it's intentional from devs.
    They don't just pass through... This is a movement order and units should not fall over when they try to go through an other unit. It is not intentional for sure.

    It's a physics problem so why should I speak about graphics ? This is a fact : collisions are really badly made



  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 95

    You have serious problem to read and understand what I mean. I said the physics is bad, at no time I spoke about graphics.
    With regards to mythicals and regulars, Devs chose the human appearance. It is not because it is a mythical unit that it can go through in this way. I don't think they wanted it.

    Jean Clovis You're right this is a glitch and an exploit that hopefully CA will address sooner rather than later but from the extreme simplicity in all other aspects of this entry in the series I do not see anything major changing.

    A secondary reason for this belief is the way they handled the chariot hot fix- instead of taking out the insane pull through they made terrain changes in order to preserve this very collision system. I think it fits the mobil-esque feel they are going for in the same vein as unit battle speed, how quickly fights resolve, the heros auto locking and auto fighting into one on ones, and the cherry on top the practically non existent city management.

    This are all just auxiliary reasons for supporting my beliefs on why they would keep this but hey man I'm with you I hope they fix it and make this a better game.
  • JeanClovisJeanClovis Registered Users Posts: 15
    I'm glad that you understood me Ducthbannger, thank you.

    I totally agree with you about the charriots hot fix, they juste bypassed the real problem.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 20,756
    Off topic personal derogatory remarks removed.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,144
    Hope CA sees and address this issue
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