Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.


The first lvl of Heavy Weapon skill is really good and the 2nd lvl is a downgrade(in all scenarios)

NotogoraNotogora Registered Users Posts: 6
This has bothered me since launch and I thought I would finally post about since nothing has been done about it yet.

First some math

Penthesilea damage is by default 260/260AP every fourth second. The first lvl gives pen 260/338AP. 5 attacks per 20 secs gives 1300 normal 1690 AP damage in 20secs.

With the 2nd lvl you get 260/416AP but only attack every fifth second instead every fourth so 4 attcks gives per 20 secs 1040 normal damage 1664 AP damage.

These calculation were made additive percentage increase if the hero has higher % part AP damage the 2nd lvl is less bad but still a downgrade.

Against a 100 armour opponent best case scenario for the skill the damage over 20 seconds with first lvl

100 armour reduce average 75% of normal damage 100*(0.5-1)=average 75 reduction:

1040*0.25 + 1664 =1924

With just the first lvl:

1300*0.25 + 1690 = 2015 so you do around 5% more damage without heavy weapon lvl2 than with it vs 100 armour. :(

And vs lower armour values it gets much worse.
(Sure you get a little more damage in first hit but the faster attack spped cacthes up quickly)

Please fix this asap. Maybe make lvl 1 a bit worse and lvl 2 not a penalty. Also the skill is a bit confusing (see other threads).

Thank you very much:).

Extra bit.
Hippolytas warhorse skill seems to cut her missle damage over time in half for 30 extra range and probably more armor-piercing damage. I was not able to hover over her damage so take this with grain of salt but the damage over time change seems a bit too much. But for all I know maybe she has much higher accuracy and almost 100% armor-piercing damage.


  • kelalatirkelalatir Registered Users Posts: 30
    As I understand the forums, the devs do not read the general discussions nearly as much as they read the support forum. Perhaps repost this in the support forum? You've done enough math to prove you have found a legitimate bug.
  • NotogoraNotogora Registered Users Posts: 6
    Ok, I will do that. Was a bit afraid to post there.
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 1,387
    It's been posted by myself and others too I think. They must have a back log of balance items to work on. The agent immobilizing armies issue was definitely at the top of the list, and they addressed that one.
  • AdmiralJelloAdmiralJello Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 525
    Heavy bow has a similar problem where the heavy bow upgrade is actually a downgrade that shows a lower weapon damage because the DPS reduction with the reduced reload skill is greater than the damage increase with AP damage.
  • BastileanBastilean Registered Users Posts: 1,387

    Heavy bow has a similar problem where the heavy bow upgrade is actually a downgrade that shows a lower weapon damage because the DPS reduction with the reduced reload skill is greater than the damage increase with AP damage.

    Actually heavy bow is pretty good. There is a big difference between the two.

    Heavy Weapon is a strait down grade of armor penetrating dps.

    Heavy Bow is a upgrade of armor penetrating dps that also saves ammo.

    The main difference is heavy bow is a 5% slower rate of fire nerf...

    While, the heavy weapon is a 25% slower rate of attack nerf.

    If you are using buffs which reduce your attack interval the +1 to attack interval is even worse, while the 5% theoretically shouldn't be that bad. I haven't tested all the cases though.
  • NotogoraNotogora Registered Users Posts: 6
    As bastilean said there is big diffrence between Heavy bows 2nd lvl and Heavy Weapons 2nd lvl. Heavy bows 2nd lvl gives a bit 16.67% AP dmg(best case 140/120) increase while giving 5% slower attack rate.

    2nd lvl Heavy weapon gives(160/130 best case) about 23% increase in AP damage and 25% slower attack rate.
    This is probably a better concise way to show what is wrong with 2nd lvl of Heavy Weapon than my wall of text above.
  • DutchbanngerDutchbannger Registered Users Posts: 95
    Yeah with achillies looking at the heavy weapon upgrade it adds AP damage but add an entire second to the attack interval meaning that the trade off within a 60 second engagement is multiple swings- those missed swings add up to far more damage than the heavy weapon tier 2 upgrade actually gives you. I feel like it should lose the negative draw back or increase that AP damage way more and make the delay even greater making it more in line with high ap attack rates of troops across tw titles.
Sign In or Register to comment.