Beyond disappointed that Ariel is not a LL

Aldernut · November 2020

She's the embodiment of Wood Elves. She's the Queen. It's her court. She makes the diplomatic decisions. It's her that the envoys to Wood Elves beseech.

Unlike Orion, she's everlasting. Orion has to die each midwinter to be reborn again, through her magic, while she's up year-round. Yet she now is just a hero, while Orion is the lord. That means no representation in the diplomatic screen.

I've been waiting for the Fairy Queen since WH1. As a female player, I'm beyond disappointed at this.

TeNoSkill · November 2020

There will certainly be a mod to compensate for this as there is also one for Isabella

Bastilean · November 2020

It's not a big deal, it just means you get to stuff more awesomeness into one army.

Kixion · November 2020

I agree with you. Love the twins being added as a lord choice. But Ariel is The Wood Elf. If Alarielle the Everqueen is a playable Lord then Ariel not being is just a bad decision. Sorry CA but I don't think you thought this one through properly.

vg45 · November 2020

Ariel was not in the TT game, Naestra and Arahan were. I am more curious to see if Ariel can be recruited by Orion or if you'll have to confederate to get both in the same army. Kroak is the greatest caster the Warhammer world has ever seen and he is a hero, a great one at that, a surprisingly inspired choice, although it might not have looked that way before he came out. CA could have left Naestra and Arahan or Ariel on the cutting room floor, you get more women and if Ariel is recruitable by every faction like Kroak is for Lizardmen then that means you get more Ariel. I think it makes sense that Ariel is not negotiating with people in the same way the Phoenix King and the council of 13 don't negotiate but instead have various faction leaders do it for them. Ariel is a step above all of that and she cannot get confederated or destroyed by other Wood Elf factions because she is the Wood Elves. As a woman you have nothing to complain about, you are getting 5 new Wood Elf characters (Drycha, Everqueen, Naestra, Arahan and Glade Captain) and every single one of them is a female. I cannot find any mods that make Isabella the person that negotiates in campaign mode, but I have a terrible track record of finding things on the workshop. But now that CA are making a lot more female characters maybe they will someday make a female Strigoi ~~waif~~ hero for me.

Kixion · November 2020

@vg45 Actually, yes she was in the table top, just not in the later editions.

Comparing her to Lord Kroak isn’t a bad idea, the problem is she is actually very similar in power and purpose to Alarielle the Everqueen, who is in the game as a legendary lord. They are after all both avatar’s of Isha, the same goddess no less. Consequently, Ariel is powerful, probably even more so than Alarielle, but she’s not “will myself back to life because I decide not to be dead anymore after millennia” powerful. The only characters who really compare to Kroak are Aenarion, Nagash and Sigmar, and maybe Grimnir.

As for your, “As a woman you have nothing to complain about”, debatable but riddle me this; name me a faction leader that is female. Not a playable LL but the actual faction leader, like how Karl Franz Is the leader of the empire and Malekith is the leader of the Dark Elves. The ONLY one is Ariel. Even her counter part Alarielle isn’t actually the leader, she’s the spiritual leader, the ruler is the Phoenix King, Finubar. So making her a hero that can only serve under other lords is definite snubbage to who she is in the lore.

None of that diminishes the welcome and awesome additions they are bringing. But neither do those additions negate what is very obviously a terrible decision.

Aldernut · November 2020

Kixion said:
As for your, “As a woman you have nothing to complain about”, debatable but riddle me this; name me a faction leader that is female. Not a playable LL but the actual faction leader, like how Karl Franz Is the leader of the empire and Malekith is the leader of the Dark Elves. The ONLY one is Ariel. Even her counter part Alarielle isn’t actually the leader, she’s the spiritual leader, the ruler is the Phoenix King, Finubar. So making her a hero that can only serve under other lords is definite snubbage to who she is in the lore.

Yep !

The only faction that comes close to this is Vampire Counts, IF we get Neferata. However, all these are fairly independent and not subject to her rule.

All neuter factions - orcs, lizardmen, skaven - are represented as male. Of the other factions, several have an all-male panel, even though in lore there's definitely room for women. Examples of these are Elspeth von Draken for the Empire, Helgar Longplaits for the Dwarves and Valkia the Bloody for either Norsca or Chaos.

Like you said, Ariel is the ONLY female clearly leading a faction.

torak8988 · November 2020

I have to agree, but seems like a small fix using a mod, then again in the current version you can have ariel and orion in the same army. not very interesting but pretty okay. i gues they didnt want to bother with making quests and quest items for ariel.

Aldernut · November 2020

torak8988 said:
I have to agree, but seems like a small fix using a mod, then again in the current version you can have ariel and orion in the same army. not very interesting but pretty okay. i gues they didnt want to bother with making quests and quest items for ariel.

Indeed with the quests. Unfortunately for this reason, it's not a small fix with a mod either. Ariel rightfully being a lord would mean:

1) Diplomacy screen:
- voice acting
- animation
- lines vs. all factions

2) Quests:
- narrative
- voice acting
- animation
- battle scripting

3) Faction mechanics:
- design
- narrative
- campaign screen implementation

4) Special units:
- models & textures
- voice acting
- animation

By Queen of Athel Loren being merely a hero, all this is left out.

RevanAmell · December 2020

Actually Ariel being a Legendary hero was a great idea. Lorewise she was the queen of Athel Loren, ruler over all WE, and the one who was around all season unlike Orion.

Heres the big issue with making her a lord though. Except for those few years where she went crazy, refused to revive Orion, and went really into the dark winds rather than the winds of life, Ariel rarely ventured outside of the Oak of Ages and even Athel Loren itself. She is a powerful and important Wood Elf character BUT her sheer lack of involvement in the greater politics of Athel Loren and the world for alot of the lore makes her as poor a fit for a LL as the Phoenix King would be.

On the other hand making her a LH makes it so that she can help any WE faction where they need it which generally fits with what she does primarily and means that such a major character can be represented in any WE faction.

Tbh Isabella von Carstein would also fit better as a LH as well since while she was critical to the story of Sylvania and Vlad she was not as involved as Vlad or the other VC LLs (except Helman Ghorst, still a miracle that he was their LL pick back in 1, he too should be just a LH).

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