Three Kingdom Period and After

RyanLui · November 2020

I haven't played much these past few months because I did everything I wanted in the campaign like get as much character as I can and unite China. Now I have no motivation to start a new campaign or simulate battle in custom because theirs no after story. There isn't even a three kingdom period until CA creates a starting period as something always goes wrong when trying to hit that period. No second generation or events and the amount of "unique" character, I think its not even close to half. I rather have CA make them then mod do it. The chance of seeing any of these is going to be a long wait. I hope we can get something during Chinese New Years at best.

I am also kind of mad because they are trying to update 3 different game as the same time. I remember when they use to do one game and stick to that game for 2 year while giving it update and dlc. Of course trying to update another game, prolongs the release of bug fixes and dlc for this game.

ShevaTsar · November 2020

Patience. We're not getting those anytime soon if they are to come. (coming from someone who wants more than everyone else combined to have late date chapter packs).

Vin362 · November 2020

I have to agree as much as I like to see Three Kingdoms actually live up to the name we have a few chapter packs and at least one more map expansion before we get there.

united84 · November 2020

I would prefer if they add relevant historical mechanics into the game such as the "De Jure" mechanic from CK3. Revamp recruiting system as well as unique names for the retinues with slight cosmetic variation.

Adding more territory and characters are great but those are really superficial addition. It will be cool to play with new characters and explore newly added lands but after sometime, it will get boring. Adding new mechanics which creates new playstyle will prolong the life cycle of the game imo and that complements very well with the new characters.

P/S : I would rather see more new mechanics that resembles Crusader Kings 3 than TWW, for TW3K.

Whiskeyjack_5691 · November 2020

As the lads said, I don't think we're going to see a Chapter Pack about the actual Three Kingdoms for a while yet. I think we'll see three more Chapter Packs before that:

200 CE (which I'm fairly certain is the next DLC) covering the Battle of Guandu and Cao Cao's conquest of the north, Sun Quan's ascension, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Biao.

208 CE opening with a bang with the Battle of Red Cliffs, and then following Cao Cao's wars against Ma Chao and Han Sui, Sun Quan's consolidation of the southlands, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Zhang culminating in his takeover of Yi Province.

214 CE starting with all 3 major factions firmly entrenched in their new homelands, the breakdown of the alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan, and Cao Cao's campaigns against the Han Warlord holdouts, Zhang Lu, and the Xiongnu tribes.

I think we'll then see a 220 CE Chapter Pack, starting immediately after Cao Pi's succession and covering the last years of the Han Dynasty and the emergence of the Three Kingdoms. I think this would also be the longest/biggest Chapter Pack and cover 15 years, including Zhuge Liang's Southern Campaigns, his Northern Expeditions, his rivalry with Sima Yi, and his death in 234.

As for what comes after, I think we'll see two or three more Chapter Packs, but I'm at at a lost to think of exact dates for each. Just off of the top of my head, I would say...
A Chapter Pack starting around 238 CE with Sima Yi's campaign against Gongsun Yuan and going on to cover the rise of Goguryeo and the Goguryeo–Wei Wars.

A Chapter Pack starting in the mid-240's focusing on the Sima Clan's struggle for power within the Wei court, and the resultant Shouchun Rebellions, as well as the death of Sun Quan and the succession crises that followed.

A Chapter Pack starting around 260 CE would be the last, encompassing the final 20 years of the period and covering the Sima Clan's usurpation of the Kingdom of Wei, their conquest of the Kingdom of Shu, and gradual the decline and eventual fall of the Kingdom of Wu in 279.

MasterSlayeX · November 2020

united84 said:
I would prefer if they add relevant historical mechanics into the game such as the "De Jure" mechanic from CK3. Revamp recruiting system as well as unique names for the retinues with slight cosmetic variation.

Adding more territory and characters are great but those are really superficial addition. It will be cool to play with new characters and explore newly added lands but after sometime, it will get boring. Adding new mechanics which creates new playstyle will prolong the life cycle of the game imo and that complements very well with the new characters.

P/S : I would rather see more new mechanics that resembles Crusader Kings 3 than TWW, for TW3K.

I would love to see more use of spies . I liked how in civ 5 you could send spies out to be diplomats . It would be pretty nice if you could send one out and have them be a diplomat to give you and the faction you use it a big boost to each other’s relations while the spy is set as a diplomat . Another being able to bad mouth other officers Or factions to the faction leader Causing fall to relations , demotion or even banishing said general . Idk I would just just to see more ways to mess with other factions with spies . A lot of this happened in the ROTK too . And of course with this comes the nerf to Yuan Shao where he has a 20% less chance of capturing a spy because let’s be honest the guy needs some change and him being terrible of spies due to how corrupt his advisors were and how much chaos it caused for his faction in the end Sounds perfect exspecially if you put one of your spies as that advisor getting his others banished

I do think it we do at least need 1-2 hero classes for bandits of which those classes can also appear in yellow turbans recruitment pools (a lot of bandits served the turbans too)

Then I feel traits really need some additional effects . Greedy IMO should be better. If a admin of higher they should tax more money but also raise corruption more , clumsy people should boost satisfaction of most people but lower satifaction of serious personality traits , Reckless should boost instinct but cannot refuse a duel , honourable people should not be able to surrender in a duel , suspicious should boost chance to catch a spy , temperamental Would be good if it randomisers the gain (changes from 2-3 traits every 3 turns ) giving advantage to some stats and adding some effects and disadvantages to others , Tolerant having +5 satifaction to whoever they serve , trusting having less chance to catch spy , uncomplicated having -1 muster turn time , vain having satifaction boost to generals higher than them but lower satisfaction to generals lower than them are a few I could think off

Then I feel the wound system really could use some work too . New traits like Infected wound should weaken resilience , handless makes them unable to use duel wield or two handed weapons and has to use a 1 handed , and slower attack speed , footless decreases their move speed then not mounted , gouged (chest) lowering resolve by 10 points , gouged (arm) lowering instinct ) gouged (leg) lowering expertise by 10 . One eyed simply comes up way too much when there’s plenty of other wounds that would happen before you lose an eye

Rewan · November 2020

Whiskeyjack_5691 said:
As the lads said, I don't think we're going to see a Chapter Pack about the actual Three Kingdoms for a while yet. I think we'll see three more Chapter Packs before that:

200 CE (which I'm fairly certain is the next DLC) covering the Battle of Guandu and Cao Cao's conquest of the north, Sun Quan's ascension, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Biao.

208 CE opening with a bang with the Battle of Red Cliffs, and then following Cao Cao's wars against Ma Chao and Han Sui, Sun Quan's consolidation of the southlands, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Zhang culminating in his takeover of Yi Province.

214 CE starting with all 3 major factions firmly entrenched in their new homelands, the breakdown of the alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan, and Cao Cao's campaigns against the Han Warlord holdouts, Zhang Lu, and the Xiongnu tribes.

I think we'll then see a 220 CE Chapter Pack, starting immediately after Cao Pi's succession and covering the last years of the Han Dynasty and the emergence of the Three Kingdoms. I think this would also be the longest/biggest Chapter Pack and cover 15 years, including Zhuge Liang's Southern Campaigns, his Northern Expeditions, his rivalry with Sima Yi, and his death in 234.

As for what comes after, I think we'll see two or three more Chapter Packs, but I'm at at a lost to think of exact dates for each. Just off of the top of my head, I would say...
A Chapter Pack starting around 238 CE with Sima Yi's campaign against Gongsun Yuan and going on to cover the rise of Goguryeo and the Goguryeo–Wei Wars.

A Chapter Pack starting in the mid-240's focusing on the Sima Clan's struggle for power within the Wei court, and the resultant Shouchun Rebellions, as well as the death of Sun Quan and the succession crises that followed.

A Chapter Pack starting around 260 CE would be the last, encompassing the final 20 years of the period and covering the Sima Clan's usurpation of the Kingdom of Wei, their conquest of the Kingdom of Shu, and gradual the decline and eventual fall of the Kingdom of Wu in 279.

Mostly agreeing with these.
As a shameless and lazy plug : https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2696177/#Comment_2696177

Vin362 · November 2020

Whiskeyjack_5691 said:
As the lads said, I don't think we're going to see a Chapter Pack about the actual Three Kingdoms for a while yet. I think we'll see three more Chapter Packs before that:

200 CE (which I'm fairly certain is the next DLC) covering the Battle of Guandu and Cao Cao's conquest of the north, Sun Quan's ascension, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Biao.

208 CE opening with a bang with the Battle of Red Cliffs, and then following Cao Cao's wars against Ma Chao and Han Sui, Sun Quan's consolidation of the southlands, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Zhang culminating in his takeover of Yi Province.

214 CE starting with all 3 major factions firmly entrenched in their new homelands, the breakdown of the alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan, and Cao Cao's campaigns against the Han Warlord holdouts, Zhang Lu, and the Xiongnu tribes.

I think we'll then see a 220 CE Chapter Pack, starting immediately after Cao Pi's succession and covering the last years of the Han Dynasty and the emergence of the Three Kingdoms. I think this would also be the longest/biggest Chapter Pack and cover 15 years, including Zhuge Liang's Southern Campaigns, his Northern Expeditions, his rivalry with Sima Yi, and his death in 234.

As for what comes after, I think we'll see two or three more Chapter Packs, but I'm at at a lost to think of exact dates for each. Just off of the top of my head, I would say...
A Chapter Pack starting around 238 CE with Sima Yi's campaign against Gongsun Yuan and going on to cover the rise of Goguryeo and the Goguryeo–Wei Wars.

A Chapter Pack starting in the mid-240's focusing on the Sima Clan's struggle for power within the Wei court, and the resultant Shouchun Rebellions, as well as the death of Sun Quan and the succession crises that followed.

A Chapter Pack starting around 260 CE would be the last, encompassing the final 20 years of the period and covering the Sima Clan's usurpation of the Kingdom of Wei, their conquest of the Kingdom of Shu, and gradual the decline and eventual fall of the Kingdom of Wu in 279.

Good ideas similar to what I would like to see the only change I would make is to change 214 CE with 211 CE so that Ma Chao can be the faction leader for theLiang faction because he would probably be under Zhang Lu in 214 as a general, unless made a vassal.

RyanLui · November 2020

Whiskeyjack_5691 said:
As the lads said, I don't think we're going to see a Chapter Pack about the actual Three Kingdoms for a while yet. I think we'll see three more Chapter Packs before that:

200 CE (which I'm fairly certain is the next DLC) covering the Battle of Guandu and Cao Cao's conquest of the north, Sun Quan's ascension, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Biao.

208 CE opening with a bang with the Battle of Red Cliffs, and then following Cao Cao's wars against Ma Chao and Han Sui, Sun Quan's consolidation of the southlands, and Liu Bei's move to join Liu Zhang culminating in his takeover of Yi Province.

214 CE starting with all 3 major factions firmly entrenched in their new homelands, the breakdown of the alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan, and Cao Cao's campaigns against the Han Warlord holdouts, Zhang Lu, and the Xiongnu tribes.

I think we'll then see a 220 CE Chapter Pack, starting immediately after Cao Pi's succession and covering the last years of the Han Dynasty and the emergence of the Three Kingdoms. I think this would also be the longest/biggest Chapter Pack and cover 15 years, including Zhuge Liang's Southern Campaigns, his Northern Expeditions, his rivalry with Sima Yi, and his death in 234.

As for what comes after, I think we'll see two or three more Chapter Packs, but I'm at at a lost to think of exact dates for each. Just off of the top of my head, I would say...
A Chapter Pack starting around 238 CE with Sima Yi's campaign against Gongsun Yuan and going on to cover the rise of Goguryeo and the Goguryeo–Wei Wars.

A Chapter Pack starting in the mid-240's focusing on the Sima Clan's struggle for power within the Wei court, and the resultant Shouchun Rebellions, as well as the death of Sun Quan and the succession crises that followed.

A Chapter Pack starting around 260 CE would be the last, encompassing the final 20 years of the period and covering the Sima Clan's usurpation of the Kingdom of Wei, their conquest of the Kingdom of Shu, and gradual the decline and eventual fall of the Kingdom of Wu in 279.

I really wish they would do all of these, but it depends on how much profit they make and if they hold off on other game(which is not likely). If CA even get to even make all of these, i think we can expect to get all of them in 1 to 2 years. From what your saying I think first would be GuanDu chapter pack then northern expansion dlc. I am really hyped for 220 CE chapter pack because alot of new character will show up. But I don't know if they can release that many character in 1 dlc or if the split some in patches.

Vin362 · November 2020

Wishful thinking on my part but there have been patch notes that have also included a model change for generals as was the case with Diaochan for example so they could do it again.

Bright_Eyes · November 2020

I think people are making a lot of assumptions about how many chapter packs we are going to get. This isn't like ROTK where you get loads of scenario packs. In the last year and a half we've received three chapter packs.

I don't think it's likely that we'll get anymore than two and to be honest I'm not that in favour of a Guandu Chapter Pack because it'll be almost exactly the same as a World Betrayed just with less factions and so more boring. I think Yuan Shao should get more unique characters but that can just be done with patches. It's not like we need to add a Nanman expansion pack for justification to get Li Ru for Dong Zhuo.

If anything I think a chapter pack for the later period with Cao Pi would be a far more pressing concern. The one thing this game lacks is unique characters later in the game and such a scenario pack would be excellent for filling out the later roster.

ShevaTsar · November 2020

I know that coherence isn't necessarily a thing, and that plans changing is a thing. But for a very long time (until Nanman DLC and Wei Yan addition and alongside Sun Quan) Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi were the only middle-late date Unique characters in the game. They were here from the very beginning, even when sometimes they intervene in the campaign when most things are already settled and their usefulness suffer from that, but they just had to be present, to be felt there (at least from CA point of view).

Are we seriously not going to witness their final showdown?

Vin362 · November 2020

If they improve the empire system I can see this being a way to add factions during the Three Kingdoms years as vassals, we can even go a step further and have chapter pack after Cao Cao's death where Cao Pi has to compete with his brothers to unite the Cao family then depose of the Han empire.

MasterSlayeX · November 2020

ShevaTsar said:
I know that coherence isn't necessarily a thing, and that plans changing is a thing. But for a very long time (until Nanman DLC and Wei Yan addition and alongside Sun Quan) Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi were the only middle-late date Unique characters in the game. They were here from the very beginning, even when sometimes they intervene in the campaign when most things are already settled and their usefulness suffer from that, but they just had to be present, to be felt there (at least from CA point of view).

Are we seriously not going to witness their final showdown?

I mean we have a few others like Sun quan and sun ren but those also scream later scenarios . Like a scenario where wu and Shu do the marriage alliance agains wei

Sima Yi would be wasted potential if there’s no scenarios where he can take over wei and make it jin

ShevaTsar · November 2020

Vin362 said:
If they improve the empire system I can see this being a way to add factions during the Three Kingdoms years as vassals, we can even go a step further and have chapter pack after Cao Cao's death where Cao Pi has to compete with his brothers to unite the Cao family then depose of the Han empire.

It is something i consider totally decisive, and risky. The late dates offer the perfect opportunity to cement and flesh out game mechanics.
The bigger risk as a lone gamer is the functionality, game is not at its best currently and a fair bit needs sorting out. Watching the community not sure if that is what they want, i get the reminiscence of the so underrated imo Thrones of Brittania.

MasterSlayeX said:

ShevaTsar said:
I know that coherence isn't necessarily a thing, and that plans changing is a thing. But for a very long time (until Nanman DLC and Wei Yan addition and alongside Sun Quan) Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi were the only middle-late date Unique characters in the game. They were here from the very beginning, even when sometimes they intervene in the campaign when most things are already settled and their usefulness suffer from that, but they just had to be present, to be felt there (at least from CA point of view).

Are we seriously not going to witness their final showdown?
I mean we have a few others like Sun quan and sun ren but those also scream later scenarios . Like a scenario where wu and Shu do the marriage alliance agains wei

Sima Yi would be wasted potential if there’s no scenarios where he can take over wei and make it jin

The cards are there.
Sun Quan is the most important figure of Wu (sorry Jian and Ce), for me it's a no brainer he'll get something.
I wouldn't say that Sun Ren was added because of her importance (she is relatively minor compared to other characters that aren't Unique), but there is room for the creative one to make her important in the game in an hypothetical chapter pack. I still recall the early promotion of the game and how she and her brother were showcased in an ambush battle. So yes the one with enough creativity can find a way to make these two characters shine at the same time and continue on this old dynamic because me personally i don't see how the mariage story with Liu Bei could be implemented in an interesting way.

Vin362 · November 2020

Funny you mention Sun Ren's marriage to Liu Bei I was playing a campaign as Sun Jian in MOH and I guess because I left Sun Ren unmarried for so long I got an event called the WU-Shu alliance where I could have her marry Liu Bei, which is funny as he was general in Liu Biao's faction. Now of course I have to wonder if Liu Bei has to be unmarried to which is easy to do as the player but the A.I for the Sun keep deploying her or marrying her off so seeing if she is unmarried is sometimes hard.

Jerroser · November 2020

Vin362 said:
Funny you mention Sun Ren's marriage to Liu Bei I was playing a campaign as Sun Jian in MOH and I guess because I left Sun Ren unmarried for so long I got an event called the WU-Shu alliance where I could have her marry Liu Bei, which is funny as he was general in Liu Biao's faction. Now of course I have to wonder if Liu Bei has to be unmarried to which is easy to do as the player but the A.I for the Sun keep deploying her or marrying her off so seeing if she is unmarried is sometimes hard.

I wonder if they will add more detail to this even in a post Chi Bi start, where you have a scripted death for Liu Bei's wife and have to option to do the marriage from either side. Perhaps they could also ad a bit more to the mechanic where an arranged marriage between two faction actually does create an alliance between the two factions or the character who joins the others faction can also become a spy for their original faction. So there is at least some value in the player sending one of their own characters in to another faction though marriage rather than it serving mostly as a way to pinch other characters for your faction.

It would also better reflect the way the marriage between Liu Bei and Sun Ren played out historically where he practically considered her an enemy he had no choice but to let in to his home. While everyone was fully aware that she was stirring up trouble to try and weaken them for her brother.

Vin362 · November 2020

I do have to wonder if there any more events that people haven't come across.

3kfan · November 2020

Vin362 said:
I do have to wonder if there any more events that people haven't come across.

I was playing as Shi Xie yesterday and for the first time came across a "Political Hostage" event where I was given the option to send my son/heir (can't remember the name, "Faithful of Shi" champion class guy) to the Sun clan - I can't remember if it was to marry someone or just to send him there, I think the latter. Anyways, the event has two options: send your heir and in return 'deepen relation' between you and Sun clan leader (at the time, Sun Quan) as well as receiving financial support (I can't remember exactly but it was I think 5 turns of -50% retinue upkeep and something else that was a temporary financial benefit), OR don't send your heir and in return 'deepen relation' between you and the heir.

Since my heir was leading an army I wasn't about to send him off and have to re-recruit (and re-muster) an entire retinue in the middle of a war, so I kept the heir. Odd thing was, I got this event about 4 times during my campaign (once it happened in consecutive turns), so I guess Sun Quan really wanted my heir... turning him down didn't seem to produce any malus though (like when as Shamoke if you don't marry your sister to Duosi he declares war on you).

I've played Shi Xie many times and this was the first time it happened; not sure why (was also the first time I'd seen Sun Quan leading the Sun clan while playing as Shi Xie, so maybe that triggers it...)

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