Moulder Missing Units

ConstantineZAyn · November 2020

- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?
- Giant rats. Cheapest product of Clan moulder isn't present in a moulder DLC.
- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.
- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.
- Burrowing behemoth.
- Chimaerat. Modder made it but CA can't? It's just a kitbash.

There's no way of knowing if we'll get these in the future, especially master moulder or giant rats. This is a serious lack of moulder abominations especially considering that the other big clans have all of their toys.

ArneSo · November 2020

And most importantly, Throtlings!

BjornNorlinder · November 2020

None of that will be missed

Elysium1805 · November 2020

Although it would be ideal and amazing to fill the each race's roster with every unit it is likely not feasible from a budget perspective. Just keep into account that CA has so far drawn from many more sources than originally expected (Monster Arcanum, etc.).
We will therefore have to be happy with the fabulous work that modders do and the support they receive from CA.

ArneSo · November 2020

BjornNorlinder said:
None of that will be missed

Eh the Master Mutator is quite missing

ConstantineZAyn · November 2020

BjornNorlinder said:
None of that will be missed

That's a subjective opinion that has no validity. Regardless, claiming that generic moulder lords or armoured rat ogres won't be missed is a serious stretch no matter how you spin it.

Elysium1805 said:
Although it would be ideal and amazing to fill the each race's roster with every unit it is likely not feasible from a budget perspective. Just keep into account that CA has so far drawn from many more sources than originally expected (Monster Arcanum, etc.).
We will therefore have to be happy with the fabulous work that modders do and the support they receive from CA.

Modders are no substitute. Pretty sure they had to jump through loopholes to get custom models in so I don't know anything about the support.

SerPus · November 2020

ConstantineZAyn said:
- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?

Master Moulders were heroes. Lord characters are called Master Mutators.

ConstantineZAyn said:

- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.

Brood Horror is just better in every way.

ConstantineZAyn said:

- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.

They are just Rat Ogres with armor. No reason to make them a separate unit if Flesh Lab exists.

ConstantineZAyn · November 2020

SerPus said:

ConstantineZAyn said:
- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?
Master Moulders were heroes. Lord characters are called Master Mutators.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.
Brood Horror is just better in every way.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.
They are just Rat Ogres with armor. No reason to make them a separate unit if Flesh Lab exists.

Wrong. Master moulder is the generic lord option.

Great pox rat is similar to a horse, a brood horror is not. Being worse is not an excuse not to include something. Great pox rats should have been there as a mount option from the beginning.

They are just rat ogres with armour. So you agree. So there's no reason not to make them. How hard is it to put armour on a unit of rat ogres?

Levicarium · November 2020

ConstantineZAyn said:

SerPus said:

ConstantineZAyn said:
- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?
Master Moulders were heroes. Lord characters are called Master Mutators.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.
Brood Horror is just better in every way.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.
They are just Rat Ogres with armor. No reason to make them a separate unit if Flesh Lab exists.

Wrong. Master moulder is the generic lord option.

Great pox rat is similar to a horse, a brood horror is not. Being worse is not an excuse not to include something. Great pox rats should have been there as a mount option from the beginning.

They are just rat ogres with armour. So you agree. So there's no reason not to make them. How hard is it to put armour on a unit of rat ogres?

From The Wiki:

Never played TT so not sure if it is correct.

Sultschiem · November 2020

ConstantineZAyn said:
- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?
- Giant rats. Cheapest product of Clan moulder isn't present in a moulder DLC.
- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.
- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.
- Burrowing behemoth.
- Chimaerat. Modder made it but CA can't? It's just a kitbash.

There's no way of knowing if we'll get these in the future, especially master moulder or giant rats. This is a serious lack of moulder abominations especially considering that the other big clans have all of their toys.

1. They have it as a hero though... they went the necrotect route, which I think is solid
2. Giant Rats come in 3 variants though, the basic one essentially takes the role of Giant Rats, the others include an armorpiercing variant....
3. Doesn't the Pox rat fit Clan Pester more?
5. But do they really bring something special? Its just a straight upgrade with a bit more armor... maybe giving them armor is part of the faction mechanic?
7. The mod is a kitbash, the official piece would need a bit more work and ..... it kinda takes away from the Dark-Elves unique monster though no? People already complained about greenskins getting a feral Hydra....

They got several new models.... the Wolf Rat and the Brood Horror, plus the legendary hero.

Yrellian · November 2020

ConstantineZAyn said:

SerPus said:

ConstantineZAyn said:
- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?
Master Moulders were heroes. Lord characters are called Master Mutators.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.
Brood Horror is just better in every way.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.
They are just Rat Ogres with armor. No reason to make them a separate unit if Flesh Lab exists.

Wrong. Master moulder is the generic lord option.

Great pox rat is similar to a horse, a brood horror is not. Being worse is not an excuse not to include something. Great pox rats should have been there as a mount option from the beginning.

They are just rat ogres with armour. So you agree. So there's no reason not to make them. How hard is it to put armour on a unit of rat ogres?

He is right about Master Moulders. This confusion might be caused by CA’s stupid decision to make packmasters a hero unit. Packmasters were creature handlers, which is something that was not translated into TWW. Master Moulders and Harbringers of Mutation were hero choices in 6th edition and Master Mutatior was the lord choice.

SerPus · November 2020

ConstantineZAyn said:

Wrong. Master moulder is the generic lord option.

The army book disagrees with you.

ConstantineZAyn said:

Great pox rat is similar to a horse, a brood horror is not.

Brood Horror is just bigger, faster and stronger Pox Rat.

ConstantineZAyn said:

They are just rat ogres with armour. So you agree. So there's no reason not to make them. How hard is it to put armour on a unit of rat ogres?

You can put armor on regular Rat Ogre unit. What would be the point of having two units with different models that are absolutely identical in every other way?

KroozaNob · November 2020

ConstantineZAyn said:

SerPus said:

ConstantineZAyn said:
- Master moulder. No moulder generic lord in a moulder DLC. Seriously now?
Master Moulders were heroes. Lord characters are called Master Mutators.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Great pox rat. It can function like a horse mount for skaven lords.
Brood Horror is just better in every way.
ConstantineZAyn said:

- Armoured rat ogres. No excuse not to have this as a unit as it's just rat ogres with armour on them.
They are just Rat Ogres with armor. No reason to make them a separate unit if Flesh Lab exists.

Wrong. Master moulder is the generic lord option.

Great pox rat is similar to a horse, a brood horror is not. Being worse is not an excuse not to include something. Great pox rats should have been there as a mount option from the beginning.

They are just rat ogres with armour. So you agree. So there's no reason not to make them. How hard is it to put armour on a unit of rat ogres?

Rat ogres with more armour. Whoopie de doop.

New textures for a unit that simply has better stats than an existing one are wasted resources imo.

A single model rat ogre that is mutated is far more interesting and fills a different niche.

Besides, stormfiends, when they will make it into the game, would make that unit even more redundant and pointless.

Just adding more units for the sake of adding them is a waste of resources and a pita to balance, when redundancies start popping up.

If I get less units that are still iconic and fill a needed role in the roster, I am more than happy.

The burrowing behemoth would have been in a weird spot between helpit abomination and the brood horror, whilst the chimerat, quite fitting as it was originally a fan concept, is already available thanks to the incredible modders.

Last but not least, this has been repeated ad nauseam.
Swarm units will not be added in the game, hence giant rats were expected not to make it in.

uzual · November 2020

Just guive us stormsfiends!

Levicarium · November 2020

I am satisfied with what we have seen so far and can't wait to start in Hell Pit in ME.

The final verdict is reserved until they release all the details.

SerPus · November 2020

KroozaNob said:

Last but not least, this has been repeated ad nauseam.
Swarm units will not be added in the game, hence giant rats were expected not to make it in.

Giant Rats isn't not a swarm unit.

KroozaNob · November 2020

SerPus said:

KroozaNob said:

Last but not least, this has been repeated ad nauseam.
Swarm units will not be added in the game, hence giant rats were expected not to make it in.
Giant Rats isn't not a swarm unit.

Wolf rats exist already, tell me a single thing the giant rats could do that this other unit can't.

KroozaNob · November 2020

KroozaNob said:

SerPus said:

KroozaNob said:

Last but not least, this has been repeated ad nauseam.
Swarm units will not be added in the game, hence giant rats were expected not to make it in.
Giant Rats isn't not a swarm unit.
Wolf rats exist already then, tell me a single thing the giant rats could do that this other unit can't.

Labria · November 2020

Do we really need more Moulder stuff except Stormfiends?
Sure, missing Moulder lord is disappointment but I can imagine Warlord will get Brood Horror mount as small compensation.

Most likely, Armoured Rat Ogres will be simple part of Flesh Lab as buff for Rat Ogres armor.

I doubt we really need Burrowing behemoth and Chimaerat. Chimaerat will be just Skaven copy of Hydra. Burrowing behemoth will be similar to Brood Horror.

Giant rats and Great Pox Rat mount for Warlords and Plague Priest heroes can still be add in 4th Skaven lord pack.
Most likely, 4th lord pack will be focus to boost Clan Pestilens options + Stormfiends, Verminlord and Thanquol.

SerPus · November 2020

KroozaNob said:
Wolf rats exist already, tell me a single thing the giant rats could do that this other unit can't.

Eh? I'm telling you that they aren't swarms, not that they are something really unique. But since you asking, they are cheaper and have more models.

HighPriest_Astragoth · November 2020

BjornNorlinder said:
None of that will be missed

I really was looking forward to the Burrowing Behemoth, I'm actually sad it didn't make the cut, seeing as how the Warp-Grinders from Skryre made it in. Clan Moulder and Clan Skryre hate each other more then anything, as Clan Skryre with their technology have been stealing clients away from Clan Moulder and their flesh pits(40k Dark Eldar Haemonculus Covens anyone?). Would have loved to seen some nice trade offs where we get to see how the two Clans work to undermine each other. I'm still very much looking forward to the DLC, as it has my favorite Wood Elf Lord, Drycha, and my favorite Skaven Clan, Clan Moulder, but it does feel "less impressive" compared to The Prophet and the Warlock.

KroozaNob · November 2020

SerPus said:

KroozaNob said:
Wolf rats exist already, tell me a single thing the giant rats could do that this other unit can't.
Eh? I'm telling you that they aren't swarms, not that they are something really unique. But since you asking, they are cheaper and have more models.

I assumed that you implied that, since they are not a swarm unit, they can be a viable unit to add. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

However, an even cheaper and still fast option other than wolf rats? At that point you might as well remove any melee skavenslave variant....

SerPus · November 2020

KroozaNob said:

However, a even cheaper and fast option other than wolf rats? At that point you might as well remove any melee skavenslave variant....

Wolf Rats are suppose to be quite strong, if I remember their MA rules correctly. They are more like a light cavalry with a fine charge.
Giant Rats are Moulder's meatshield. But since Throt can buff infantry with his Flesh Lab they'll probably be redundant.

HighPriest_Astragoth · November 2020

uzual said:
Just guive us stormsfiends!

hush ratboy, else ill send the Knights of fair Bretonnia after you!

Besides, do you really want them now, or want them, and all the different and fleshed out Daemon Princes of the Horned Rat(Verminlords), when the paid DLC of Thanquol lands, surfing on a wave of anti-fur tears, while the uneducated fanbase are kicking the 3 Beastmen players who are left, telling them they have had enough damn DLC's already?

KroozaNob · November 2020

HighPriest_Astragoth said:

uzual said:
Just guive us stormsfiends!
hush ratboy, else ill send the Knights of fair Bretonnia after you!

Besides, do you really want them now, or want them, and all the different and fleshed out Daemon Princes of the Horned Rat(Verminlords), when the paid DLC of Thanquol lands, surfing on a wave of anti-fur tears, while the uneducated fanbase are kicking the 3 Beastmen players who are left, telling them they have had enough damn DLC's already?

Ah yes, finally, an other educated gentlerat lurking in this disgustingly illuminated overground sewage....

ArneSo · November 2020

HighPriest_Astragoth said:

uzual said:
Just guive us stormsfiends!
hush ratboy, else ill send the Knights of fair Bretonnia after you!

Besides, do you really want them now, or want them, and all the different and fleshed out Daemon Princes of the Horned Rat(Verminlords), when the paid DLC of Thanquol lands, surfing on a wave of anti-fur tears, while the uneducated fanbase are kicking the 3 Beastmen players who are left, telling them they have had enough damn DLC's already?

I think the Skaven hate will just disappear in some years similar to VC hate from WH1.

3 years ago people were strictly against „more undead“ and now VC are a race that desperately needs some love.

In the end all WH2 races got an equal amount of Love with 6 LLs assuming that DE are next.

MiniaAr · November 2020

KroozaNob said:

SerPus said:

KroozaNob said:

Last but not least, this has been repeated ad nauseam.
Swarm units will not be added in the game, hence giant rats were expected not to make it in.
Giant Rats isn't not a swarm unit.
Wolf rats exist already, tell me a single thing the giant rats could do that this other unit can't.

Well wolf rats and giant rats don't have the same role. Giant rats are actually Moulder's skavenslaves. Moulder army is a rush army, you sent your hordes of giant rats to hold the ennemy in place for then your rat ogres, abominations and brood horrors to crush anything that moves. Wolf rats are flanking, anti-archers and artillery units.
So not the same role in TT, could have been distinct in TW WH as well.

Giant rats are your chaff units, wolf rats are less numerous but more efficient in killing (weak) stuff. Giant rats aren't killing anything.

I don't think Chimereat and Burrowing behemoths are missing. However Master mutators (generic lord buffing Moulder units extensively)is. Packmaster hero is fine (real name should have been Master Moulder) but packmaster units as melee anti-large would have been nice to have.

Xenos7777 · November 2020

I feel they are keeping something back for the Thanquol DLC. After all we got some Skryre units in the Eshin DLC.

MiniaAr · November 2020

Xenos7777 said:
I feel they are keeping something back for the Thanquol DLC. After all we got some Skryre units in the Eshin DLC.

This would be a solution yes:
Thanquol DLC
Screech Verminking LH
Verminlord generic lord
Units:
Giant rats
Stormfiends (2-3 variants)
end time unit

Should make skaven more than complete.

Eranus · November 2020

For me (as a big Skaven fan) most missing units are (in order of importance):

1. master mutator (generic lord)
2. Giant rats ( at least my hopes are big that we will see them in a thanquol dlc)
3. harbinger of mutation (caster hero with his own law)
4. Giant pox rat (as a cheap mount, like a horse)
For me these are the most important from the missing units list.
5. Chimerarat as a bonus (Monster like a hydra, but without a breath attack)

All other missing moulder units are less important in my opinion. By the way, clan moulder also has access to normal Trolls.

HighPriest_Astragoth · November 2020

ArneSo said:

HighPriest_Astragoth said:

uzual said:
Just guive us stormsfiends!
hush ratboy, else ill send the Knights of fair Bretonnia after you!

Besides, do you really want them now, or want them, and all the different and fleshed out Daemon Princes of the Horned Rat(Verminlords), when the paid DLC of Thanquol lands, surfing on a wave of anti-fur tears, while the uneducated fanbase are kicking the 3 Beastmen players who are left, telling them they have had enough damn DLC's already?
I think the Skaven hate will just disappear in some years similar to VC hate from WH1.

3 years ago people were strictly against „more undead“ and now VC are a race that desperately needs some love.

In the end all WH2 races got an equal amount of Love with 6 LLs assuming that DE are next.

I saw a chart detailing the people who actually played Warhammer Fantasy Battles, I think it was right before Age of Sigmar, so 2015. Well anyway, and I know to most this is unbelievable, but the Skaven and the Lizardmen were exactly in the middle, with the Lizardmen on top. Now look how things are looking in the year of 2020, Video Game wise, the Lizardmen and Skaven are heavily favored by the fan base, and I dare to say with the Skaven being the #1 most loved faction. I think it just goes to show all the rage Fantasy fans had towards GW, I still remember it all as I was paying close attention as I too had a Fantasy TT army(Chaos Dwarfs Big Hats 4th-6th edition), the rage was this, "The reason Warhammer Fantasy (Battles) is vastly underselling is because you won't give us the Space Marine treatment, and update our models, or at least make them plastic!".

That was true, but 40K was fairing no better, notice the term Space Marine, and not 40K?, I myself have seen many dozens of people take a huge interest into armies(both Fantasy and 40K), even knowing the price to enter is in the hundreds, but then they see that their dream army is in all metal, and that with metal you get less models, and pay more, yeah they left and never came back, and I can't say I blame them, I have wanted to do a 40K Gretchen army for a decade now, the Gretchen models are old, and the prospect of throwing down hundreds of bucks on the Grots alone, only to see their entire line get a facelift in the not too distant future, or worse of all, GW/FW stops all support for my star units, the Grot Tank, the Grot Mega Tank, and the mighty Squiggoth, well lets just say it has kept my hand from clicking buy.

Anyway my point to the rant is this, we are playing a video game, you need to spend $60.00 bucks(roughly), and then another $20.00(roughly) to get a 100% completed army, and if CA does not complete it, fans will(Hashut bless you modders). Its because of this I am seeing a HUGE WAVE of new blood, who are gushing over armies that were rare to see, or very expensive to get into. Take a look at the Chaos Dwarfs, their current legal army is very very expensive to get into, especially if you want the full artillery train, or two, I was just looking at their new named Lord for Age of Sigmar, Shar’tor the Executioner, they have a what might as well be a "Start Collecting Box Set" for the Chaos Dwarfs in Age of Sigmar that has Shar’tor in it, know what it costs, $430.00, not counting shipping(if Shipping is required), the box set comes with 11 models; Shar’tor the Executioner; a Bull Centaur Taur’ruk; and three sets of three Bull Centaur Renders.

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