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Gratuitous Mounts Break Characters - Stop That Nonsense, CA!

ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 28,210
Throt shows once again that CA handing out gratuitous mounts (IE mounts given to characters which they didn't have on the TT) like candy is detrimental to the game. Throt got healing, a buff aura and summons (all three things that are insanely valuable in this game already). These alone would make him a well rounded character with well-defined strengths and weaknesses...as long as he was a pure footslogger.

Too bad CA saw fit to give him a 95 speed (there's few units on the ground that are faster than that and even fewer that can fight it out with an SEM) monstrous mount that regenerates. Now the character is utterly broken and I'm talking Parrotman levels of busted.

Throt is plenty awesome on his own already. But since the mount has insane synergies with his other abilities, using him dismounted is automatically the worse option. And since the mount is doing all the fighting, you also won't see Throt fight himself and so whatever unique animations CA added (he's the sole three-armed character right now), is completely wasted.

None of the characters that got this treatmen enhanced them in any positive way, they were at best forgettable, but at worst we get stiff-mannequin "hunter of champions" Wulfirk, letting his Mammoth trample all the champions. And the aforementioned Parrotman, who breaks character by being a stronger and tankier brawler than his brother.

It's about time you stop with this nonsense, CA. You're batting 0 for 0 with no prospect of this ever changing.



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Comments

  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,774
    I agree, and the inconsistency of who gets what mount also is weird.

    That said, not to be a doomer or blackpilled, @ShiroAmakusa75 they'd never act on a actual case for Demountifaction. The playerbase at large would accuse CA of removing content. It was a slippery slope, pandoras box and now its open, we cant close it.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 5,127
    edited November 2020
    Would usually agree with you, but it kinda makes sense for thrott to have a mount, if Brood Horror had gottin a GW mode (rather than just FW) I would not have been suprised if he had been given it as a mount, maybe with a rule that instead of killing a model and eating it on a failed roll he would take a chunk out of his mount doing maybe D3 wounds instead.

    Edit, also Thrott has low leadership and is apparently quite squishy on the Brood Horror, so it does have downsides, so it isn't just a straight buff
  • WaaaghCheifWaaaghCheif Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,774
    Also @ShiroAmakusa75 , with the introduction of this DLC and Throt getting a mount, it spawned a demand for Lord Skrolk getting a Plague Furnace. I wouldn't be surprised if he got it next mount at this point.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,210
    Goatforce said:

    Would usually agree with you, but it kinda makes sense for thrott to have a mount, if Brood Horror had gottin a GW mode (rather than just FW) I would not have been suprised if he had been given it as a mount, maybe with a rule that instead of killing a model and eating it on a failed roll he would take a chunk out of his mount doing maybe D3 wounds instead.

    Edit, also Thrott has low leadership and is apparently quite squishy on the Brood Horror, so it does have downsides, so it isn't just a straight buff

    You know, if CA actually made mounts into sidegrades instead of straight, major upgrades, I wouldn't complain about it so much.

    Say if taking the mount meant Throt could only pick one of his abilities, either the heal OR the summon OR the aura then he'd be trading something meaningful for the advantages he gets and it would require making an actual decision.

    But the way it's handled now means that mounting him up is always the best decision and such no-brainer picks drain a lot of possible variety from the game.

    CA really should know better by now.

  • korradokortokorradokorto Registered Users Posts: 215
    Nah, actually trench should get a brood horror too.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,210
    edited November 2020

    Nah, actually trench should get a brood horror too.

    He shouldn't. And neither should Queek. And Skrolk should of course not get a Plague Furnace. Skrolk was until now the dominant Skaven lord simply because he's got insanely high, low-risk and effort DPS on him. Adding a Plague Furnace to that package is out of the question.

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 3,862

    Nah, actually trench should get a brood horror too.

    He shouldn't. And neither should Queek. And Skrolk should of course not get a Plague Furnace. Skrolk was until now the dominant Skaven lord simply because he's got insanely high, low-risk and effort DPS on him. Adding a Plague Furnace to that package is out of the question.
    And yet, we all know it will happen in Game 3, with a Pestilence balancing pass.

    I enjoy foot lords, I dislike all these mounts all the time.
    Knights of Bretonnia

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 8,295
    it shouldn't have 95 speed only bloody fliers can catch it.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 5,127

    Goatforce said:

    Would usually agree with you, but it kinda makes sense for thrott to have a mount, if Brood Horror had gottin a GW mode (rather than just FW) I would not have been suprised if he had been given it as a mount, maybe with a rule that instead of killing a model and eating it on a failed roll he would take a chunk out of his mount doing maybe D3 wounds instead.

    Edit, also Thrott has low leadership and is apparently quite squishy on the Brood Horror, so it does have downsides, so it isn't just a straight buff

    You know, if CA actually made mounts into sidegrades instead of straight, major upgrades, I wouldn't complain about it so much.

    Say if taking the mount meant Throt could only pick one of his abilities, either the heal OR the summon OR the aura then he'd be trading something meaningful for the advantages he gets and it would require making an actual decision.

    But the way it's handled now means that mounting him up is always the best decision and such no-brainer picks drain a lot of possible variety from the game.

    CA really should know better by now.
    From watching Milkandcookies it appears that taking the Brood Horror for Thrott means he has significantly lower leadership and is quite squishy. Whilst it is clearly an upgrade it is not nearly as extreme as, say, Teclis and makes more sense too.

    Whilst I would have probably preferred Thrott to be just a footlord I personally don't have a massive issue with the Brood Horror mount for him.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,210
    Goatforce said:

    Goatforce said:

    Would usually agree with you, but it kinda makes sense for thrott to have a mount, if Brood Horror had gottin a GW mode (rather than just FW) I would not have been suprised if he had been given it as a mount, maybe with a rule that instead of killing a model and eating it on a failed roll he would take a chunk out of his mount doing maybe D3 wounds instead.

    Edit, also Thrott has low leadership and is apparently quite squishy on the Brood Horror, so it does have downsides, so it isn't just a straight buff

    You know, if CA actually made mounts into sidegrades instead of straight, major upgrades, I wouldn't complain about it so much.

    Say if taking the mount meant Throt could only pick one of his abilities, either the heal OR the summon OR the aura then he'd be trading something meaningful for the advantages he gets and it would require making an actual decision.

    But the way it's handled now means that mounting him up is always the best decision and such no-brainer picks drain a lot of possible variety from the game.

    CA really should know better by now.
    From watching Milkandcookies it appears that taking the Brood Horror for Thrott means he has significantly lower leadership and is quite squishy. Whilst it is clearly an upgrade it is not nearly as extreme as, say, Teclis and makes more sense too.

    Whilst I would have probably preferred Thrott to be just a footlord I personally don't have a massive issue with the Brood Horror mount for him.
    It's on the level of parrotman because summoning, healing and buff auras are highly meta-relevant abilities and Throt's throwing out a regiment of monstrous infantry at that. Combined with 95 speed and regeneration they become absolutely busted. Low leadership means nothing, it's beneficial if he runs out of combat because it gives him time to regenerate and makes it harder to kill him for good.

    I've already seen that pattern. The mount was a bad decision to add.


  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 8,295
    Goatforce said:

    Goatforce said:

    Would usually agree with you, but it kinda makes sense for thrott to have a mount, if Brood Horror had gottin a GW mode (rather than just FW) I would not have been suprised if he had been given it as a mount, maybe with a rule that instead of killing a model and eating it on a failed roll he would take a chunk out of his mount doing maybe D3 wounds instead.

    Edit, also Thrott has low leadership and is apparently quite squishy on the Brood Horror, so it does have downsides, so it isn't just a straight buff

    You know, if CA actually made mounts into sidegrades instead of straight, major upgrades, I wouldn't complain about it so much.

    Say if taking the mount meant Throt could only pick one of his abilities, either the heal OR the summon OR the aura then he'd be trading something meaningful for the advantages he gets and it would require making an actual decision.

    But the way it's handled now means that mounting him up is always the best decision and such no-brainer picks drain a lot of possible variety from the game.

    CA really should know better by now.
    From watching Milkandcookies it appears that taking the Brood Horror for Thrott means he has significantly lower leadership and is quite squishy. Whilst it is clearly an upgrade it is not nearly as extreme as, say, Teclis and makes more sense too.

    Whilst I would have probably preferred Thrott to be just a footlord I personally don't have a massive issue with the Brood Horror mount for him.
    65 LD matters if you can catch it, since it already cause terror and fear so these don't effect, so remind with his regen may be even double since brood horror has its own , how are you suppose to enough burst to use that low LD
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • HowTheStarsBurnHowTheStarsBurn Registered Users Posts: 210
    Wrong. Mounts are options, hurting nobody and have associated weaknesses (cost). More mounts please!
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,210

    Wrong. Mounts are options, hurting nobody and have associated weaknesses (cost). More mounts please!

    False, completely false.

    Mounts are not options when they also represent the brain-dead obvious optimal choice and they close to always do thanks to the lack of balancing effort on behalf of CA.

    Throt has a unique rig all to himself since he's the only three-armed character in the game, but because his optimal usage is mounted and mounted characters are more like stiff dummies, all those animations are completely wasted.

    CA needs to either stop handing out BS mounts or balance them properly so there's actually a choice to be made.

  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 7,611
    I usually agree with you on this topic but for once this mount is believable enough.
  • Son_of_gromSon_of_grom Registered Users Posts: 56
    With a great mount comes a great price tag my friend. And a different statistical profile

    I support your thread but I also support Thrott’s mount. More anything? More everything!
  • KirGeoKirGeo Registered Users Posts: 103
    Is this about a PvP balance issue? I'm don't understand. It wouldn't matter much in the campaign right.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 8,295
    Its too fast. It need drop speed to 80 as you suggested
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • EmeraldThanatosEmeraldThanatos Registered Users Posts: 1,139
    Personally I'd like it if they brought back the mount prerequisites for campaign, that way every mount gets used and you don't just go from foot Kroq-Gar to Grimloq, but first go through the cold ones. That would resolve a lot of the issues in campaign. I don't know how to deal with it in MP.
    Ranking of all Total War games I've played:
    1. Three kingdoms
    2. Shogun 2
    3. Warhammer
    4. Medieval 2
    5. Thrones
    6. Attila
    7. Rome 2
    8. Napoleon
    9. Empire
    10. Troy



  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,312
    Disagree. Throt should have always had a beastly mount on TT.

    Just like Skrolk should get a plague furnace.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • decourcy2decourcy2 Registered Users Posts: 196
    I am just dying at the thought of Skrolk, the strongest lord in the game getting a plague furnace. I will just delete the game and never buy a total war again.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,312
    decourcy2 said:

    I am just dying at the thought of Skrolk, the strongest lord in the game getting a plague furnace. I will just delete the game and never buy a total war again.

    The strongest lord in the game?

    Is that a joke?
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • RheingoldRheingold Registered Users Posts: 744
    Man, and and that speed. Usain Bolt has nothing on Throt. There is nothing in game that can catch him and do any real damage to him. Or or even hold him in place. Unless the player makes a mistake. The dlc tem needs some serious oversight, while they are clearly very talented and creative individuals, balance and power creep is becoming absurd. Keep saying this - what about Chaos dwarfs? At this rate the game will be well and truly broken by the time they come.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,979
    Oh well, if they stop now new future lords will be much weaker than older ones. And obviously they can't really remove previous content, it's bad press. I'm not a big fan of non-unique mounts (nor an opponent, really), but at this time it's easier to give them to other lords and call it a day.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,979
    decourcy2 said:

    I am just dying at the thought of Skrolk, the strongest lord in the game getting a plague furnace. I will just delete the game and never buy a total war again.

    Seems a bit harsh when stats can be modded in like five minutes.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 8,295
    So in balancing fourm found out CA can not change speed due animations issue on brood horror
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,312

    So in balancing fourm found out CA can not change speed due animations issue on brood horror

    Good. I was worried I had to play Moulder first before the nerfs hit. I can take my time then.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 8,295

    So in balancing fourm found out CA can not change speed due animations issue on brood horror

    Good. I was worried I had to play Moulder first before the nerfs hit. I can take my time then.
    Nerf will come just not for speed unfortunately. Which is bad since now other things have to be berfed instead.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • MagicspookMagicspook Registered Users Posts: 585
    I will not be using the brood horror on my first throt playthrough. As you say, I want to see his new animations first. Besides, I can test the foot lord fixes for myself.
  • DatHomieSilverSurferDatHomieSilverSurfer Registered Users Posts: 255
    I'm a huge Skaven fanboy and I really dislike that the brood horrors got 95 speed. It just seems so... ridiculous. Especially considering that it also serves as a mount for 3 characters (Throt/Warlord/Packmaster), each with their own abilities and stats.

    just bring it down to 80-85 (where I expected it anyways), and drop price if necessary (probably not). It will still easily fill its role and the niche in the Skaven roster
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 2,082

    So in balancing fourm found out CA can not change speed due animations issue on brood horror

    What how exactly. That makes no sense.
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