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Did CA underestimate the Wood Elves popularity?

KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 2,699
I think CA underestimated how popular the Wood Elves are. Honestly, they have always mostly been a footnote around here and on Reddit until this LP was announced months ago and then as we approached its release, the talk started. Now people are up in arms over it.

You rarely heard of people saying they "Mained" the Wood Elves. You do with the Beastmen and yet they are in a bad sucky state, so saying the Wood Elves "sucked" and nobody wanted to "main" them isn't an excuse, since other sucky races are being mained. Greenskins were too before their rework.

What I am getting at here, is that maybe CA thinks of the Wood Elves as a red headed stepchild race and didn't think fans would be in this big of an uproar over their rework, etc. They did always seem like a throwaway race to me. I have NEVER been interested in them. I still ain't, no matter how good or bad their rework is.

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Comments

  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 5,498
  • HowTheStarsBurnHowTheStarsBurn Registered Users Posts: 210
    CA has more data on what is played, for how long, how they are played, than you can possibly imagine. They see all. So no, I don't think they underestimated at all.
  • KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 2,699

    CA has more data on what is played, for how long, how they are played, than you can possibly imagine. They see all. So no, I don't think they underestimated at all.

    Then how far down the rung were the Wood Elves? Is the question.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 22,885
    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • Son_of_gromSon_of_grom Registered Users Posts: 56
    Units look good. Ariel is my waifu and has a nice kit
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,218

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,841

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 22,885

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    I've heard that it's better than it appears, but we'll see. I normally ignore LLs special mechanics, so for me at least the difference between a really good individual LLs mechanic and a bad one is minor.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Registered Users Posts: 2,116
    I doubt CA were surprised people care. I mean, people get angry about everything. This was never going to be any different.

    Straight up, I loved playing the Wood Elves before and I hope to enjoy it even more going forward. You don't have to "main" in something to have a vested interest in it. You really don't.

    Units look good. Ariel is my waifu and has a nice kit

    @Son_of_grom Waifu? That's enough weird outta you, young'un. My chariot ain't gonna wash itself. :p
    Often bored, but never finished. Food, war, carousing, rabble-rousing... A gobbo's work is never done.
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,841

    I doubt CA were surprised people care. I mean, people get angry about everything. This was never going to be any different.

    Straight up, I loved playing the Wood Elves before and I hope to enjoy it even more going forward. You don't have to "main" in something to have a vested interest in it. You really don't.

    Units look good. Ariel is my waifu and has a nice kit

    @Son_of_grom Waifu? That's enough weird outta you, young'un. My chariot ain't gonna wash itself. :p
    I just got an imagine of a lil goblin young in telling his big dag grom about his aspirations to marry an overly colorful moth.
  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 668

    CA has more data on what is played, for how long, how they are played, than you can possibly imagine. They see all. So no, I don't think they underestimated at all.

    Now I wont argue with that, though it can be miss leading because I would have played WoC a lot if it wasnt for their actual ''lack'' of gameplay. An update could change everything, not having god units and characters is so sad...
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • AzurianAzurian Registered Users Posts: 1,907

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    If there are complaints over and over again, it might be worth considering if the quality is really not as great as it seems.

    Lizardmen and Imperials complained
    Skaven and Dark Elves .. no, the Dark Elves did not complain
    High Elves and greenskins complained
    Wood Elves and Skaven are complaining.

    Conclusion: Perhaps these are people like that. There is no reason to believe that the quality of the Lordpacks is really not so impeccable.

    Personally, I would say this:
    Empire - September 2019, well done, lizardmen, made to look, Big Zavr is cool but overall, the lizardmen side hasn't received much attention. However, this is good, they already got a lot.

    Malus - Dec 2020. Both have great mechanics, great job. Both of them have new units so-so, I forgive the Skaven 3rd Lordpack because the second one in the part of the units was worthless. The dark elves were a little more fortunate, Medusa is very powerful, but still it's rather weak DLC, but he excuses that we got it after only 3 months.

    High Elves and Greenskins: You know, I'm a high elf fan. My tongue would not turn to say that the High Elves were clothed and left without love. Elves have received much, much love. In my opinion, even before the DLC, they were the most powerful race, but now it is generally something. I am surprised that they decided to strengthen such a strong race at all.

    This is DLC: Tolerable. No more. The reworking of the Wood Elves and their new Roots of the World is something, for which I am ready to forgive everything. The rest is satisfactory. And I'm talking about everyone. Skaven too. I was afraid that Dricha would get only 2 units, but she got about ten, but 50% of them are the same forest spirits with slightly raised characteristics and repainted in a different color. Animals? Well, this is lazy work, they are all already in the game, but they are interesting for gameplay, so it will do well.

  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Registered Users Posts: 2,116
    Laindesh said:

    I doubt CA were surprised people care. I mean, people get angry about everything. This was never going to be any different.

    Straight up, I loved playing the Wood Elves before and I hope to enjoy it even more going forward. You don't have to "main" in something to have a vested interest in it. You really don't.

    Units look good. Ariel is my waifu and has a nice kit

    @Son_of_grom Waifu? That's enough weird outta you, young'un. My chariot ain't gonna wash itself. :p
    I just got an imagine of a lil goblin young in telling his big dag grom about his aspirations to marry an overly colorful moth.
    It's a good way to get "unadopted", thumped and sent to the gyrating weirdo squad. Lucky I need my chariot's "go fasta" stripes visible and the holes cleaned out first.
    Often bored, but never finished. Food, war, carousing, rabble-rousing... A gobbo's work is never done.
  • AzurianAzurian Registered Users Posts: 1,907
    Azurian said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    Conclusion: Perhaps these are people like that. There is no reason to believe that the quality of the Lordpacks is really not so impeccable.
    Sarcasm

  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Registered Users Posts: 2,894
    7 months of waiting does strange things to people.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,837
    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:




    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,662
    The Wood Elf army was always bloody amazing, and the skirmisher style was really fun to play. Militarily it was never bad or at a disadvantage so long as you knew wtf you were doing.

    The one and ONLY thing that sucked about Wood Elves - was amber.

    That's it. The painting the map thing with outposts was tedious - but it's tedious for everyone. The new way of winning without that is just a courtesy, really. Also, I believe you can still do it if you wish to.

    That's why you never saw many complaints. Usually it was just QQ about amber and about the ho-hum of having to paint the map. Anyone who ever complained about the rest of the WE stuff was probably just a noob.

    Add to that the fact that CA said it was on their list to fix - the first one they said that of, mind you - and it went a long way towards quieting people. The folks who like skirmishing playstyles are inherently more patient people than the meatgrinder or big explosion type folks who represent most of the player base.

    Wood Elves were one of the races I was most looking forward to when TWWH was even announced. I'm glad they are finally getting rid of amber.

    Now the only thing I really have to QQ about is wanting Araloth and wishing that spellsingers and wardancers and the other strangely-female only units actually had male models in there as well - as they are supposed to. Wood Elves did things RIGHT with Glade Lords - they had both! This new either/or stuff with wh2 is lazy. Elves are supposed to be better about mixing the genders than humans, darnit. Quit making them so feminist :tongue:
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,218
    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    For the sake of this DLC I hope he's right. If what we see is in fact what we get, then the Wood Elves' mechanic is set to be the worst since Queen and Crone, possibly the worst in all of Warhammer 2. I'll reserve final judgment for when we see everything, but I'm not impressed or optimistic about it.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,339

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 22,885
    Azurian said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    Skaven and Dark Elves .. no, the Dark Elves did not complain
    What...? People complained bitterly about how awful Malus's campaign was.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,837

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    Then what else is it if not favouritism? Three out of three Skaven LP LLs come with unique mechanics. Is it a cosmic coincidence?

    All races should get good mechanics, with this I agree. But no force in the World-That-Was will convince me that the Skaven favouritism is not a thing.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • DEM0N_LLAMADEM0N_LLAMA Registered Users Posts: 612

    Azurian said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    Skaven and Dark Elves .. no, the Dark Elves did not complain
    What...? People complained bitterly about how awful Malus's campaign was.
    Weren't there also people upset we got Eshin instead of Moulder?
    Honestly I don't think I have seen a LP where people don't complain about something.
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Registered Users Posts: 1,218

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    You're exactly right. The problem isn't that Moulder got a really good mechanic, it's that the Sisters got half of a High Elf Rite as theirs. Nobody wants Skaven mechanics to be worse. People want the Wood Elves, or the Dark Elves, or the Lizardmen mechanics to be BETTER, to live up to what we know that CA is capable of like they show with the Skaven. There's no reason and no excuse for such obviously lopsided quality in DLC, especially for a company as big as CA.
  • jamesbluewavejamesbluewave Registered Users Posts: 488
    Probably not, I mean, we can look ourselves at steam achievements and see a percentage of how many people that bought the game, bothered to finish a campaign for the faction.
  • LevicariumLevicarium Registered Users Posts: 461
    edited November 2020

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    Then what else is it if not favouritism? Three out of three Skaven LP LLs come with unique mechanics. Is it a cosmic coincidence?

    All races should get good mechanics, with this I agree. But no force in the World-That-Was will convince me that the Skaven favouritism is not a thing.
    Please remember that for the first year and a half (out of the 3 years the game exists) the Skaven got nothing in terms of content except Tretch and had the worst roster in game 2. You never saw them forming empires more than 5-6 settlements and playing them was a chore.

    Edit: also, HE and LM got their 6 lords before Skaven
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,438
    CA if anyone is in a position to gauge popularity as they are the ones sitting on all the relevant data like sales and playtime data.

    Also ”maining”. Wtf is up with that? I have a Dwarf profile pic and have played loads of Dwarfs for sure but I play all races and have lots of favourite races and factions.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,985
    I'm not really convinced there are all those people playing just one race, being a fan of that one race. I think most people are just fans of the game, maybe disliking one or two races (for example I haven't really played the Empire, too vanilla to me) and buy content that looks good, regardless of who's is in.
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 5,498
    Xenos7777 said:

    I'm not really convinced there are all those people playing just one race, being a fan of that one race. I think most people are just fans of the game, maybe disliking one or two races (for example I haven't really played the Empire, too vanilla to me) and buy content that looks good, regardless of who's is in.

    in TWW2 i have only played wood elves, so they exist


  • EmrysorEmrysor Registered Users Posts: 284

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    There is something you confuse, most sensible people does not want the skaven to a poor mechanic and definetly not bitter children. The point is that CA have put more work in the skaven mechanic in a LP they were featured, while the other party have not gotten a mechanic that is equally. So what most people want is that both of the new factions in a LP get the same considerations when creating a special mechanic.

    This is not just something that happens in skaven dlc, but most dlcs seems to have a winner and a loser regarding the faction mechanic. With the sisters an unique faction mechanic is severly lacking and not expanded upon and just seems like a project given to an intern, while the rest of the dlc team covered the rest of the dlc. WIth the new units and lords being realesed a major incentive to buy it is that the factions have really cool and well thought out mechanic. At least that is my opinion of it.

    Also there was also a lot of misconseptions or unclear marketing what was part of the flc or semi flc if you owned the the original WE dlc. I think it would be for the better if they just dropped flc part entirely and increase the quality of the dlcs then increase the cost of it as well. If the finished product gets 50% more expensive, then it is fine as long the quality of the dlc entirety is very good. I am a very greedy guy, but if it is something I really liked, ie a new game or dlc, then it is worth it.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 8,570
    edited November 2020

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    Then what else is it if not favouritism? Three out of three Skaven LP LLs come with unique mechanics. Is it a cosmic coincidence?

    All races should get good mechanics, with this I agree. But no force in the World-That-Was will convince me that the Skaven favouritism is not a thing.
    One thing I'd give the skaven superfans is this: The mechanics for Skryre, Moulder, and Eshin clans really do largely write themselves. Seriously, did anyone really think that Throt wasn't going to get some sort of lab mechanic? It's a fair enough observation to make that the mechanics for skaven DLC lords could be drawn pretty much straight out of the fluff, while other races often involve stretching a bit further for ideas, which can be a bit hit or miss.

    That said...

    I don't think that WE's popularity is the only factor. People finally got fed up with the Skaven favouritism. All three of their LP LLs come with special mechanics. The WE won't even get one LL on the same level despite being a part of the first ever DLC for DLC.

    Thousands of people are disappointed with the Sisters mechanics:






    Laindesh said:

    Not really. People always get up in arms over an LP. The WE got a better LP than any could have expected and people are complaining, they were always going to. So you've got to consider it as background radiation. Overall this LP is pretty darn even and fair. WE got a bunch of characters, 3 decent units, a hero, and a good rework. Skaven got 2 Characters, 3 good units and a hero, and their LL quite possibly got better mechanics. It appears like they've put actual effort into making things even, I'd argue to the detriment of the LP quality.

    If anything I see the BM as less popular in terms of actual players. It's just got a lot of people -like myself- who now see the time as theirs. I likely won't play the BM, I wouldn't buy the ideal LP I want them to get, but they deserve it. The WE could have something going on, people with wild expectations that weren't met.

    The units and characters are fine, but the Sisters' mechanic is unjustifiably bad. It's just half of the Invocation of Vaul, a 2-choice dilemma. It's below FLC tier, even Alith Anar's mechanic is better. That is not okay for a DLC released in 2020 for this game, especially when Throt's mechanic rivals Ikit's in quality.
    No she got a point, another point is its too early to judge the mechanic. Sotek stated CA's LP didnt do the mechanic justice and it's better than what people got the impression of. Apparently it takes some time before it starts kicking off.

    You're free to say it seems underwhelming\bad etc. But don't make accusations before you've seen the whole product.
    Im still skeptical toward it, but hey maybe i'll be positively suprised.

    The same person who said that Coeddil looks amazing, or something like that. The same person who said nothing about P&W bugs. I wouldn't put much faith in youtube content creators.
    Can we stop with this "favouritism" nonsense.

    The problem with the DLC ISN'T that the Skaven got a cool mechanic.

    It's that the WE didn't.

    I'm sick of the bitter children wanting one races content to be worse because another race got good mechanics. ALL races should get good mechanics.
    Then what else is it if not favouritism? Three out of three Skaven LP LLs come with unique mechanics. Is it a cosmic coincidence?

    All races should get good mechanics, with this I agree. But no force in the World-That-Was will convince me that the Skaven favouritism is not a thing.
    Please remember that for the first year and a half (out of the 3 years the game exists) the Skaven got nothing in terms of content except Tretch and had the worst roster in game 2. You never saw them forming empires more than 5-6 settlements and playing them was a chore.

    Edit: also, HE and LM got their 6 lords before Skaven
    Getting 6 lords before Skaven is a pretty weak argument when it's now clear that this was just to make room for them being the first race to get three lord packs. As much as I was glad to see Imrik come as FLC so we could finally stop having THAT particular argument, I'd trade waiting another year to get him as DLC with DLC units in a heartbeat. Not to mention that Skaven are the one race where CA has said something that could be interpreted as a commitment to extending that to a seventh.

    As for complaining about the state of Skaven on release: Sure, but CA did fix it, didn't they? That was over a year ago now, and hardly relevant to the current status, particularly since it's pretty clear that this was less a matter of neglect, and more a matter of Skaven getting the most complex mechanics on release and CA not quite getting them right. Talk to Beastmen about going over a year for your problems to be fixed, and then after that becoming the most supported race in the game. I'm sure they'll be very sympathetic.
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