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Total War American Civil War, WW1, or WW2 Game

PelzenPelzen Registered Users Posts: 2
edited November 2020 in Total War General Chat
I just wanted to put this up here that I would love if the Total War series added any of these games ................

American Civil War

World War 1

World War 2

With the same style and game play of all the other games. Im sure ill be told im stupid and all that but wanted to get this out there just in case there is a chance.

Thanks
Post edited by BillyRuffian on

Comments

  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,753
    Generally don't get too much abuse down here so don't worry about that. These three do come up fairly often.

    ACW - rather too limited for it's own game but would fit a micro campaign and/or grand campaign mechanic in a Victorian era based game.

    WW1 & 2 don't fit the current TW systems and mechanics. Wouldn't look like or play out like either of the periods. Also not sure Sega would greenlight it, they have Relic who have an award winning WW2 game that could be taken to WW1 a lot easier and while both CoH and TW have WW1 mods the CoH one is quite a bit closer.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 21,487
    Agree with Commisar. The American Civil War might possibly be a side campaign in a larger, more comprehensive Guns & Powder game setting. The Victoria era has been mentioned in a number of other threads in this area.

    WWI and WWII just cannot be handled well, if at all, with the curreent Total War format.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,137
    You will never see a Total War of any of these.
    ò_ó
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,381
    I would reword that as you will never see a "good" Total War of any of these.

    The American Civil War, in particular, actually had substantial melee action, but the reasons for this weren't at all modeled in Empire or Shogun, which should have suffered from the same issues.

    You fire a black powder musket a few times, and you're presented with two problems. You can't see the enemy anymore, and you can't get the damn ball jammed down the barrel in a reasonable amount of time.

    The first two rounds should be reasonably swift. Only the first should be reasonably accurate, and after that you're shooting blind with a really lousy weapon. Which is why they shot a couple times and then ran at each other with bayonets.

    Combine this with trench warfare, which was just becoming the in thing to do and dominated defensive tactics, and you've got a really crappy game to play if you model it accurately.

    By WWI, trench warfare is the dominating tactic, with cleaner burning powder that doesn't foul a barrel in a few shots and leave you standing in a cloud of smoke. CAS was more psychological than effective, and early tanks were actually slower than a man jogging, most barely more than light artillery or machine guns on tracks. It would be a miserable game to play. Charges were all but impossible, and millions were ground down as a result of people being unable to grasp this while dying by the thousands in trenches.

    WWII gives us a lot more of interest. Tanks come into their power as the modern armored cavalry. CAS becomes a major factor in infantry battles as air power goes from hand held bombs and machine guns mounted behind props, to serious threats on land, at sea, and in the air. Naval fleets become epic power houses with a diverse array of abilities. The big problems? Naval and air power are major parts of the warfare. There is effectively no melee, it's all ranged, and most casualties are via unopposed bombardment. It's also highly irregular warfare, taking ground frequently isn't about field battles. This is the last nail in the coffin of regimental warfare, following it's spectacular failure in WWI. Literally nothing about this era, fits the current Total War model.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 258
    ACW would be great.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,567
    ACW is for also not quite main title own its own but rather a campaign for a TW Victoria or a Saga game.

    WW1: CA has said that they technically kinda could do it already. Personally I think it is inevitable, that CA will move to the 20th centuries, not just because the phrase "total war" is connected to the 20th century like no other, but it would give the opportunity for a true game changer and would open many other possible titles (a Sci fi TW, or 40K straight, or a Cold War TW ect.).

    WW2: not possible according to CAs (by now old) statements and would require a new engine.
    Nevertheless what I said in WW1 applies still: the 20th century will come to TW and so will the WW's.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • GluutenGluuten Registered Users Posts: 6
    I think the American Civil War would be very cool as a Total War Saga title, but not as a main entry in the franchise.

    According to CA "Total War Saga titles take the grand strategy and real-time battles of a core Total War game and channel them into an intense flashpoint of history", and I think the Civil War fits into that category of that description.

    A lot of creativity could be done for different factions and settings as well.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 258
    Gluuten said:

    I think the American Civil War would be very cool as a Total War Saga title, but not as a main entry in the franchise.

    According to CA "Total War Saga titles take the grand strategy and real-time battles of a core Total War game and channel them into an intense flashpoint of history", and I think the Civil War fits into that category of that description.

    A lot of creativity could be done for different factions and settings as well.

    I was thinking the same thing.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,753
    Gluuten said:

    I think the American Civil War would be very cool as a Total War Saga title, but not as a main entry in the franchise.

    According to CA "Total War Saga titles take the grand strategy and real-time battles of a core Total War game and channel them into an intense flashpoint of history", and I think the Civil War fits into that category of that description.

    A lot of creativity could be done for different factions and settings as well.

    Issue is unlike all the other Saga games you have very little to work with. At least the Trojan war was made up of a lot of differing states, FotS had multiple clans with polar opposite war views and ToB had a range of cultures. ACW doesn't. It's two factions of the same nation differing slightly as the war goes on based off what they can produce or import.
  • Barbarian BorelordBarbarian Borelord Registered Users Posts: 55
    psychoak said:


    The American Civil War, in particular, actually had substantial melee action,

    According to the Ken Burns documentary, by the time of the American Civil War the age of the bayonet had ended, it's just that the commanders didn't realise that...

    Anyway, I can't see WW I & II ever happening, but the American Civil War could happen as a part of Victoria/ Empire II Total War, and I hope it will one day.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 258

    psychoak said:


    The American Civil War, in particular, actually had substantial melee action,

    According to the Ken Burns documentary, by the time of the American Civil War the age of the bayonet had ended, it's just that the commanders didn't realise that...

    Anyway, I can't see WW I & II ever happening, but the American Civil War could happen as a part of Victoria/ Empire II Total War, and I hope it will one day.
    According to these authors, the belief that the rifled musket changed combat in the civil war is false.

    https://www.amazon.com/Rifle-Musket-Civil-War-Combat/dp/0700623833

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Tactics-Civil-Paddy-Griffith/dp/1847977898/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=battle+tactics+of+the+civil+war&qid=1606845041&s=books&sr=1-2


  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,381
    Smokeless powder didn't come about until well after the ACW ended.

    Burns may be correct if he's referring to things like the Henry, which would have dominated the battlefield if it had been deployed as the common armament, but it wasn't. Irregulars armed with repeaters cleaned up real well, but they were also spread, low number combatants using high accuracy weapons. They weren't the majority of the combatants.

    The majority of the combatants, and the casualties, were musket, and later rifled musket infantry divisions, engaged in trench warfare. They would shoot at each other until they couldn't see, with little in the way of casualties, and occasionally work up the nerve to charge, which were extremely high casualty events.

    A great deal of stabbing took place early on, regardless of the practical applications of irregular warfare using actual repeater rifles. With the diverse array of weaponry used due to no standing military before hand on either side, and in progress adoption of both existing technology, and newly created works for the war effort, there is a substantial amount of travel over the course of the war. It started off little different from the last war with idiots lining up and shooting at each other, turned into trench warfare pretty quickly, and then evolved over the course of the conflict from smooth bore to rifled muskets, with different repeaters being purchased for irregulars and officers, evolutions in artillery, and even a few personally purchased gatling guns towards the end of the war.

    Extreme limitations on the more advanced weaponry, modeling the idiotic behavior of the time, would result in equally idiotic, but more TW friendly warfare, than an intelligent post analysis army design could manage.
  • PelzenPelzen Registered Users Posts: 2
    Thank you all for your comments. It made a lot of sense. I have to agree. Thanks for your insights.
  • Empire2pleaseEmpire2please Registered Users Posts: 8
    My pitch for Empire 2: Total War
    (I liked the name 'Imperial: Total War' but the 'Empire 2' title keeps the vide of other Total War sequels like Rome 2, Warhammer 2, Shogun 2)

    I'm sure CA is already working on something like this - but here we go!

    Campaign Time Period: Late 1865 to late 1914

    Theaters:
    - Europe - similar Empire and Napoleon (Europe, North Africa, some of Middle East like only territories that boarder the Mediterranean, and the Caucasus Region as displayed in Empire)
    - North America and the Caribbean - Similar to Empire but slimmed down a bit (from southern Canada to southern Mexico/central Caribbean) no Central American or Northern South American territories
    - Southern Africa - Territories encompassing the southern tip of Africa and its eastern coast opposite Madagascar
    - South East Asia - some territories encompassing the southern Chinese coast, modern day Vietnam, the Islands of the Philippines, and maybe southern Japan
    - The Theater of India and the expanse of the Middle East, as they are represented in Empire would not be included in this game to favor the theaters of Southern Africa and Eastern/Southeast Asia - the trade theaters would also not exist (as their inclusion simulates the creation of the large national trading companies of the 1700s)

    Themes:
    Primary-
    - The Rise of Super Empires
    = UK and Germany
    - The Fall of Old Empires
    = Spain, Russia, and Ottoman Empire
    - Colonization of Africa and Asia
    = through the inclusion of the theaters listed above
    - Mass Industrialization
    = Roads, Railroads, and Electricity for infrastructure improvements - building multiple factories and ports of the same type provide bonuses not just to the territory they reside but to other like buildings/industries as well (simulating the evolution of the accumulating economic power of individual corporations and industries)
    Secondary-
    - The increasing influence of the United States - holdover from Empire
    - The increasing influence of Central Europe
    - Industrialization of War
    - Evolution Governments

    Playable Factions:
    - The United Kingdom
    - The French Empire
    - The Empire of Spain
    - The German Empire
    - The Kingdom of Italy
    - The Austro-Hungarian Empire
    - The Russian Empire
    - The Ottoman Empire
    - Japanese Colonies (like the British, French, and Spanish colony factions from Empire)
    - United States of America

    Technology Trees:
    Military Industrialization:
    - ex. Muskets to rifles and repeaters, wooden navies powered by sales to steal ships run on coal, cannons to artillery, machine guns at very end of campaign (probably no tanks and airplanes units - sorry)
    Economic Industrialization:
    - ex. electricity, industrialized farming, railroads, monopolies, mass industry (steal, coal, oil - you would not need to collect or micromanage these resources, but they contribute to your overall economy)
    Societal Mobilization:
    - ex. suffrage movement, workers’ rights (unions), trade tariffs, modern energy, advanced economic systems, manifest destiny, nationalism, aircraft, self determination

    Government Types:
    - Absolute Monarchy/Imperial Dynasty
    - Constitutional Monarchy
    - Democracy/Republic
    - Dictatorship
    Managing the government would be similar to the management of family trees in Rome and Attila. Absolute Monarchies/Imperial dynasties and Constitutional Monarchies would be managing the royal families and their political confidants. For Democracy/Republic and Dictatorships Royal Families would be replaced by political parties (Populists and Centrists maybe). Dictatorships would only have one Political Party (call it Authoritarianists maybe). Government types would change when public unrest reaches untenable levels. Change could be attained through a forced referendum, or through revolt.

    Prologue:
    Introduction to real time battle mechanics - a battle or two set during the American Civil War (as the Union/USA)
    Introduction to turn based/campaign map mechanics - Boxer Rebellion/colonization of Africa/Asia (as United Kingdom)
    Test Your Skills - The Franco Prussian War (as Germany)

    For those of us who want an actual sequel to Empire, not just the spiritual one we currently have in Napoleon (thought his game is good too!), yet who are worried about the mechanics of WWI changing Total War to much; this may be an acceptable compromise. Also for those who want to explore WWI era and play out battles using units similar to those used during WWI without worrying about correctly simulating trench warfare, once the campaign officially ends in 1914, what's stopping you from making your own World War?

    Sorry for the spelling/grammar mistakes
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