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If Skaven put ratling guns on Rat Ogres, why they don't put them also in Hellpit Abominations?

elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,210
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
I mean, the lizardmen placed giant blowpipes on top of Stegadons and Dread Saurians, and norscans have javelin throwers on top of their War Mammoths. Why should skaven not use the same logic but for hellpit abominations?
Again, they created rat ogres that can shoot with giant ratling guns, they're probably the most creative race in the world, so why didn't they come out with some sort of bunker (i don't know the technical name) to put on top of abominations filled with various ranged weapons (be ratling guns, globadiers, warplightning cannons, mortars, etc...).


EDIT: to specify, i don't mean that the hellpit abomination go around with oversized guns. I was using the stormfiend as an example. What i mean is an hellpit abomination with skaven on top of it that shoot.

Comments

  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 8,527
    The Abomination moves in a very chaotic way. Also, its not got the potential for sentience. Rat Ogres have the potential, and very mechanical way of moving plus can be augmented by extra brains.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 4,041
    Simple.


    One is intelligent enough to actually use the guns. The other will just be a flailing mass of tubes shooting bullets everywhere before they even get near the enemy.
  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 4,421
    Those rat ogres have an intelligent “host” so to speak.

    While Hellpit abominations are just large beasts with no concept on how to use advanced weaponry.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,210
    edited November 2020


    Is the stegadon using the blowpipes?



    Is the dread saurian using the blowpipes?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    elkapp said:

    I mean, the lizardmen placed giant blowpipes on top of Stegadons and Dread Saurians, and norscans have javelin throwers on top of their War Mammoths. Why should skaven not use the same logic but for hellpit abominations?
    Again, they created rat ogres that can shoot with giant ratling guns, they're probably the most creative race in the world, so why didn't they come out with some sort of bunker (i don't know the technical name) to put on top of abominations filled with various ranged weapons (be ratling guns, globadiers, warplightning cannons, mortars, etc...)

    The movement of the HPA is so **** and erratic, any howdah you'd place on it would be shaken off in no time. And whatever troopers you place on there would be attacked by it anyway. It's a mindless, flailing monster.

    Skaven already solved that problem with the Stormfiends.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,172
    I presume the hellpit would just eat any rats that mounted it.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    And another thing is that the HPA doesn't have a convenient shape for a howdah since the entire frontpart is sticking up and would obstruct shooting anything directly in front o fit. In contrast the Stegadon and the Dread Saurian allow free shooting in all directions since their heads are lower than their backs.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,210

    And another thing is that the HPA doesn't have a convenient shape for a howdah since the entire frontpart is sticking up and would obstruct shooting anything directly in front o fit. In contrast the Stegadon and the Dread Saurian allow free shooting in all directions since their heads are lower than their backs.

    I tought about that, and it can be solved by just shooting on the side of the abomination. Still does damage, plus the abomination is probably gonna be surrounded often by infantry during a battle.
    Another thing that can be done that could be cool is to stick a couple of warplightning cannons on each side of the "neck" of the hellpit abomination. Not as good as a freely rotating cannon (that could still work on the back just with a 270° angle), but good enough.

    PS: on the ancient stegadon, if don't say **** (since i don't recruit them often), the blowpipe should have only a frontal cone of fire. The javelins are the ones with 360°.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,887
    edited November 2020
    elkapp said:

    And another thing is that the HPA doesn't have a convenient shape for a howdah since the entire frontpart is sticking up and would obstruct shooting anything directly in front o fit. In contrast the Stegadon and the Dread Saurian allow free shooting in all directions since their heads are lower than their backs.

    I tought about that, and it can be solved by just shooting on the side of the abomination. Still does damage, plus the abomination is probably gonna be surrounded often by infantry during a battle.
    Another thing that can be done that could be cool is to stick a couple of warplightning cannons on each side of the "neck" of the hellpit abomination. Not as good as a freely rotating cannon (that could still work on the back just with a 270° angle), but good enough.

    PS: on the ancient stegadon, if don't say **** (since i don't recruit them often), the blowpipe should have only a frontal cone of fire. The javelins are the ones with 360°.
    The problem is it's a monster, that can only strike out based on being prodded by Pack Masters. You can't give a multi shot firearm to a normal Rat Ogre or a Hellpit for the same reason you can't attach it to a dog, it has not concept on how to use it and who to point it at.

    That's why you need a very intelligent Pack Master attached to a very large Rat Ogre - a Stormfiend.

    A Hell Pitt is a mass of shapes with heads sprouting out all over the place. You are also going down the route of certain other more modern creations.. let's put chain cannons on everything..

    Let's attach them to a Brood Horror; put them under the wings of a Dragon, create a platform on anything and everything so everyone gets a Ratling Gun.

    Personally I think a Ratling Cannon on a Stormfiend and a Ratling Gun weapon team is more than enough.
  • elkappelkapp Registered Users Posts: 1,210

    elkapp said:

    And another thing is that the HPA doesn't have a convenient shape for a howdah since the entire frontpart is sticking up and would obstruct shooting anything directly in front o fit. In contrast the Stegadon and the Dread Saurian allow free shooting in all directions since their heads are lower than their backs.

    I tought about that, and it can be solved by just shooting on the side of the abomination. Still does damage, plus the abomination is probably gonna be surrounded often by infantry during a battle.
    Another thing that can be done that could be cool is to stick a couple of warplightning cannons on each side of the "neck" of the hellpit abomination. Not as good as a freely rotating cannon (that could still work on the back just with a 270° angle), but good enough.

    PS: on the ancient stegadon, if don't say **** (since i don't recruit them often), the blowpipe should have only a frontal cone of fire. The javelins are the ones with 360°.
    The problem is it's a monster, that can only strike out based on being prodded by Pack Masters. You can't give a multi shot firearm to a normal Rat Ogre or a Hellpit for the same reason you can't attach it to a dog, it has not concept on how to use it and who to point it at.

    That's why you need a very intelligent Pack Master attached to a very large Rat Ogre - a Stormfiend.
    elkapp said:

    EDIT: to specify, i don't mean that the hellpit abomination go around with oversized guns. I was using the stormfiend as an example. What i mean is an hellpit abomination with skaven on top of it that shoot.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited November 2020
    elkapp said:

    And another thing is that the HPA doesn't have a convenient shape for a howdah since the entire frontpart is sticking up and would obstruct shooting anything directly in front o fit. In contrast the Stegadon and the Dread Saurian allow free shooting in all directions since their heads are lower than their backs.

    I tought about that, and it can be solved by just shooting on the side of the abomination. Still does damage, plus the abomination is probably gonna be surrounded often by infantry during a battle.
    Another thing that can be done that could be cool is to stick a couple of warplightning cannons on each side of the "neck" of the hellpit abomination. Not as good as a freely rotating cannon (that could still work on the back just with a 270° angle), but good enough.

    PS: on the ancient stegadon, if don't say **** (since i don't recruit them often), the blowpipe should have only a frontal cone of fire. The javelins are the ones with 360°.


    Any platform you put on its side is in reach of its flailing limbs and it would still shaken off by its highly erratic locomotion. That also means placing cannons on it is completely out of the question since to actually hit anything you need a stable foundation which you very much don't have with a monster that writhing and weaving like crazy the whole time.

    Also, platforms on its side would be almost on ground level, completely defeating the point.
  • nathan247nathan247 Registered Users Posts: 9

    Simple.


    One is intelligent enough to actually use the guns. The other will just be a flailing mass of tubes shooting bullets everywhere before they even get near the enemy.

    I just imagined this entire sentence and I laughed so loud lol.
  • ShivaXShivaX Registered Users Posts: 304
    edited November 2020
    nathan247 said:

    Simple.


    One is intelligent enough to actually use the guns. The other will just be a flailing mass of tubes shooting bullets everywhere before they even get near the enemy.

    I just imagined this entire sentence and I laughed so loud lol.
    It's actually pretty accurate. Rest assured it was probably tried at some point, because Skaven.
    After a few thousand skavenslaves met their end in the first test run and the Hellpit shot itself to death, the project was abandoned.
  • RomeoRejectRomeoReject Registered Users Posts: 1,865

    Simple.


    One is intelligent enough to actually use the guns. The other will just be a flailing mass of tubes shooting bullets everywhere before they even get near the enemy.

    "...I'm not hearing the issue here?"
    -Any Skaven Scientist
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