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Middle Earth is possible in total war.

jamreal18jamreal18 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 10,678
edited November 2020 in Total War General Chat
There are already plenty of games which are based on LotR/Middle Earth.

https://www.thegamer.com/the-lord-of-the-rings-video-games-ranked-best-all-time/

Latest game:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_War

Upcoming game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_Gollum


So why do people still say it's impossible to be made?

What is the difference of CA from other game developers? If they can make it, why can't CA?
Post edited by jamreal18 on
«13

Comments

  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,708
    Generally the reasons for it being "impossible" is the price tag CA/SEGA would get charged for it and the low profitability.

    The other being the general view of lack of content/diversity that the fantasy players want these days.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,187
    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    jamreal18 said:

    There are already plenty of games which are based on LotR/Middle Earth.

    https://www.thegamer.com/the-lord-of-the-rings-video-games-ranked-best-all-time/

    Latest games:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_Gollum

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth:_Shadow_of_War

    So why do people still say it's impossible to be made?

    If they can make it, why can't CA?


    Only those who don't want it say it is impossible. I have played many LOTR games from video to boardgame by small companies that have attained the licenses. Ca could always do one based on the books if they wanted to avoid the movie license and you know the most popular mod would be a movie version.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    edited November 2020

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:

    Generally the reasons for it being "impossible" is the price tag CA/SEGA would get charged for it and the low profitability.

    Low profitability? any evidence to back that up? Tolkien carries the largest fantasy fan base of all time only expanded by the movies that could be brought into the total war series. As someone who has not played a total war game since empire, this would get me back into total war. Lord of the Rings is the best selling fantasy book of all time. The Hobbit is the third-best fantasy seller. Besides the Bible, LOTR is the third best selling book of all time, the Hobbit is 8th on the all-time list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...-selling_books
    https://jamesclear.com/best-books/best-selling


    The world created by Tolkien would fit perfectly for the next fantasy total war game. Lord of the Rings provides what Total war needs.

    - Large fan base already present
    - Multiple diverse factions with both challenges and bonuses for each
    - Hugh map of Middle Earth with diverse terrain and battle maps
    - Large numbers of diverse units and forces for epic battles
    - Large castles for epic siege battles
    - Hero's of legend with special abilities
    -Agents, spies, assassins, diplomats etc
    - Battle over land, sea and air
    - Economy and trade


    It is not surprising that the most awarded, most downloaded, mod ever made for a total war game is the third age mod.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...-Age-Total-War





  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:


    The other being the general view of lack of content/diversity that the fantasy players want these days.

    First off how many of these "fantasy" players did you ask that said they don't want the most popular fantasy of all time, Middle-earth? I will answer, not a one. There is more content/diversity within Middle-earth from the first age to the 4th to satisfy any gamer. More diversity and content than any TW game not named Warhammer [ I don't know if Warhammer has more or not I don't play/follow] that has ever been made. Tolkiens books were rather large and give a lot of material to work off of.


    I for one will never play Warhammer simply because it is not Tolkien. The only fantasy I would play is Tolkien. To me , someone who has read all of Tolkien's works, see a major selling point of Tolkien total war as being its large amount of content and diversity. It is when I here people who have watched the movies that left out so much, that make claims of lack of diversity. Drives me mad.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,708

    Low profitability? any evidence to back that up? Tolkien carries the largest fantasy fan base of all time only expanded by the movies that could be brought into the total war series. As someone who has not played a total war game since empire, this would get me back into total war. Lord of the Rings is the best selling fantasy book of all time. The Hobbit is the third-best fantasy seller. Besides the Bible, LOTR is the third best selling book of all time, the Hobbit is 8th on the all-time list.

    Large bill to get the rights to the series and it increases as you increase the coverage is the first, second is the amount of ground work CA would have to do from the ground up makes the development more expensive than any other TW.

    And? The bible is the most produced book in history. Doesn't mean lots of them would buy a game based off it. As I've previously pointed out can see this shown in all the other LotR games that have been made, none of which have been that popular and sold amazingly and not one LotR game is in the top 100 games being played on Steam.

    First off how many of these "fantasy" players did you ask that said they don't want the most popular fantasy of all time, Middle-earth? I will answer, not a one. There is more content/diversity within Middle-earth from the first age to the 4th to satisfy any gamer. More diversity and content than any TW game not named Warhammer [ I don't know if Warhammer has more or not I don't play/follow] that has ever been made. Tolkiens books were rather large and give a lot of material to work off of.

    I for one will never play Warhammer simply because it is not Tolkien. The only fantasy I would play is Tolkien. To me , someone who has read all of Tolkien's works, see a major selling point of Tolkien total war as being its large amount of content and diversity. It is when I here people who have watched the movies that left out so much, that make claims of lack of diversity. Drives me mad.

    It's quite a common reply in threads both here and on reddit. And how many of these gamers have you then asked to draw that conclusion that they would be enough?

    That's you're choice. There's also lots of people who wont play LotR because it doesn't interest them and even more coming out as actually disliking LotR in the geek world.

    ...that's the people the game will be marketed at. Note GWs also has a LotR line, it's not that popular.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:

    Low profitability? any evidence to back that up? Tolkien carries the largest fantasy fan base of all time only expanded by the movies that could be brought into the total war series. As someone who has not played a total war game since empire, this would get me back into total war. Lord of the Rings is the best selling fantasy book of all time. The Hobbit is the third-best fantasy seller. Besides the Bible, LOTR is the third best selling book of all time, the Hobbit is 8th on the all-time list.

    Large bill to get the rights to the series and it increases as you increase the coverage is the first, second is the amount of ground work CA would have to do from the ground up makes the development more expensive than any other TW.

    And? The bible is the most produced book in history. Doesn't mean lots of them would buy a game based off it. As I've previously pointed out can see this shown in all the other LotR games that have been made, none of which have been that popular and sold amazingly and not one LotR game is in the top 100 games being played on Steam.
    So you're arguing that the cost to the rights to make a game based on Tolkien would make it not profitable. Do you have the numbers before you? why have so many companies much smaller than CA have been able to do so but CA cannot? Also there is nothing to stop them from making one based on the books and getting an artist like how or Lee to be a lead designer and thus the look would be very similar to the movie for cheap.


    Good point on the bible. But might I suggest middle-earth would be a lot more fun than bible total war. Might i point out no lotr has been made by tw. it would be like saying none is playing any shogun period game therefore tw cant do one. Is there any top ww1 games? or ACW? likely not yer if tw did one they would be right up there. I am a high tolkien fan yet i don't play any tolkien games because they are all poor adaptations and not really tolkien. a tolkien tw would not be so, it would capture middle-earth as it was meant to be.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:


    It's quite a common reply in threads both here and on reddit. And how many of these gamers have you then asked to draw that conclusion that they would be enough?

    That's you're choice. There's also lots of people who wont play LotR because it doesn't interest them and even more coming out as actually disliking LotR in the geek world.

    ...that's the people the game will be marketed at. Note GWs also has a LotR line, it's not that popular.

    I have made many threads and almost everyone loves the idea of middle-earth. Some oppose or think it won't be done due to cost for the reasons you have given. Can you show me one where lack of diversity is a cause? and when you do i will show you someone who watched only the movies because if they had read Tolkien's works [as well as his sons] then lack of diversity would not be an issue. I also never claimed to speak for others while you did with no support.


    either way even if so tolkien still holds the largest fan base among all fantasy fans. He started the damn thing.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,708

    So you're arguing that the cost to the rights to make a game based on Tolkien would make it not profitable. Do you have the numbers before you? why have so many companies much smaller than CA have been able to do so but CA cannot? Also there is nothing to stop them from making one based on the books and getting an artist like how or Lee to be a lead designer and thus the look would be very similar to the movie for cheap.


    Good point on the bible. But might I suggest middle-earth would be a lot more fun than bible total war. Might i point out no lotr has been made by tw. it would be like saying none is playing any shogun period game therefore tw cant do one. Is there any top ww1 games? or ACW? likely not yer if tw did one they would be right up there. I am a high tolkien fan yet i don't play any tolkien games because they are all poor adaptations and not really tolkien. a tolkien tw would not be so, it would capture middle-earth as it was meant to be.

    No, I said low profitability. These days companies want to make a lot of profit.

    How many have bought the rights to all the LotR content? How many have then gone on to make a triple A title?

    I'd expect them to have to do that, but again that still adds a lot of costs to the production budget, rather than the traditional % of the sale. Note Steams cut is 30% (dropping to 25% and 20% as the sales increase) and they also lose a chunk to tax, 20% of the price tag in the UK. Depending when Steam takes it's cut could mean CA will only see £30-33.60 of each game sold on Steam, we don't know how much SEGA takes or if there's any other companies they pay a % to.

    Reference on Steams cut:
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30/18120577/valve-steam-game-marketplace-revenue-split-new-rules-competition

    Amazon it seems paid $250 million to get the rights to make their series:
    https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/amazons-lord-of-the-rings-explained-plot-cast/amazon-prime-executive-session-panel-tca-summer-press-tour-los-angeles-usa-27-jul-2019/

    Debatable, people do have some interest in the religious elements and some parts of the Bible could work as a SAGA with the path of Troy...I really didn't expect that to turn up when I mentioned it lol. But my point was that just because a book sells doesn't mean those people want to play a game, at this point it's more the people who watched the films and are looking forward to the Amazon series.

    Yes, more popular game types have been made using the LotR and haven't done amazingly, so expecting TW to do well simply because it's TW is strange.

    There's quite a few WW1 and ACW games, all done in a style that fits much better than TW would and with more draw than I'd expect TW to get for it.

    You've no evidence that it would. It would still be heavily edited and have a lot of things that aren't covered in the books due to it being a sandbox.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    Commisar said:

    So you're arguing that the cost to the rights to make a game based on Tolkien would make it not profitable. Do you have the numbers before you? why have so many companies much smaller than CA have been able to do so but CA cannot? Also there is nothing to stop them from making one based on the books and getting an artist like how or Lee to be a lead designer and thus the look would be very similar to the movie for cheap.


    Good point on the bible. But might I suggest middle-earth would be a lot more fun than bible total war. Might i point out no lotr has been made by tw. it would be like saying none is playing any shogun period game therefore tw cant do one. Is there any top ww1 games? or ACW? likely not yer if tw did one they would be right up there. I am a high tolkien fan yet i don't play any tolkien games because they are all poor adaptations and not really tolkien. a tolkien tw would not be so, it would capture middle-earth as it was meant to be.

    No, I said low profitability. These days companies want to make a lot of profit.

    How many have bought the rights to all the LotR content? How many have then gone on to make a triple A title?

    I'd expect them to have to do that, but again that still adds a lot of costs to the production budget, rather than the traditional % of the sale. Note Steams cut is 30% (dropping to 25% and 20% as the sales increase) and they also lose a chunk to tax, 20% of the price tag in the UK. Depending when Steam takes it's cut could mean CA will only see £30-33.60 of each game sold on Steam, we don't know how much SEGA takes or if there's any other companies they pay a % to.

    Reference on Steams cut:
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30/18120577/valve-steam-game-marketplace-revenue-split-new-rules-competition

    Amazon it seems paid $250 million to get the rights to make their series:
    https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/amazons-lord-of-the-rings-explained-plot-cast/amazon-prime-executive-session-panel-tca-summer-press-tour-los-angeles-usa-27-jul-2019/

    Debatable, people do have some interest in the religious elements and some parts of the Bible could work as a SAGA with the path of Troy...I really didn't expect that to turn up when I mentioned it lol. But my point was that just because a book sells doesn't mean those people want to play a game, at this point it's more the people who watched the films and are looking forward to the Amazon series.

    Yes, more popular game types have been made using the LotR and haven't done amazingly, so expecting TW to do well simply because it's TW is strange.

    There's quite a few WW1 and ACW games, all done in a style that fits much better than TW would and with more draw than I'd expect TW to get for it.

    You've no evidence that it would. It would still be heavily edited and have a lot of things that aren't covered in the books due to it being a sandbox.
    What days did a company not want to make money?


    I understand what youre saying here. I am only saying the fan base would make more sales to help make up for it and CA could use Lee or Howe, or there own artists to portrayle Middle-earth much like the movies. Or, they could use the rights to the books only as many small companies have done in various ways and made what businesses [today at least] you say desire, money. Besides all those extra costs just get passed down to us, that is why we pay for content from dlc's and such that should be in the original and the cost of games is crazy already.


    I am also a Christian, but would be more interested in LOTR TW as it would be far more fun. besides, i would hate to see what CA would do to the bible if they were allowed. You make another good point why to do a tolkien total war, the amazon show coming out will stir interest for the second age. Maybe that could be the first game, first age the next, then the third and finally the 4th age.


    You keep missing the point and I must think it is on purpose. No game has been done that closely represents LOTR truly like a tw game would. The only ones that have somewhat were battle for middle-earth [sold very well] LOTRO [still going based on books] and the board game [epic reviews] war of the ring again based on books. The most popular mod ever for tw is thrid age, that is because tolkien fits perfect into tw games.


    No shogun game outside of tw has done good so therefore shogun should not be done according to your logic. I never suggested EA make another **** poor "tolkien" game, I said TW should make a game.


    I don't play any of those games you mention because they are not tolkien they are random games that have a look somewhat like middle-earth. On one hand you claim tolkien does not sell in games and on the other, the cost to receive the rights are so high. Do they know something you do not? would the cost not be so much if nonone plays tolkien anymore? you should go help ca get the rights cheep tell them no one plays tolkien games so it should be cheep. you should have helped amazon so they would not waste 250 million.



    In case Tw does a ww1 or ACW. I would like you to state here it will not do as well as current acw games and ww1 that are selling know because your whole argument stands on that being true.

  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 21,285
    I agree with @Commisar. I've expressed my views on the the potential in this thread on almost the same topic.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/276111/concept-art-for-a-total-war-middle-earth-not-official-ca#latest
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,678
    edited November 2020
    First of all, Do people know how much Tolkien sells their license for game developers?

    Second, Do people really believe it won't sell as expected?

    Third, Do people think WH license is cheap?

    ______________________
    Based on my research,

    *There is another game based on Middle Earth is being developed by another company right now.
    *The price of license for TV is different from the price of license for games.
    *Third Age Mod which was developed from years ago is still being played right now.
    *Some games are being modded and revived into LotR like Third Age and BfME Reforged because of its popularity.

    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,678
    edited November 2020
    Commisar said:

    Generally the reasons for it being "impossible" is the price tag CA/SEGA would get charged for it and the low profitability.

    The other being the general view of lack of content/diversity that the fantasy players want these days.

    Price Tag? So other companies can afford to buy the license while CA/SEGA can't?

    Low Profitability? How did you know?
    So how about the upcoming game
    "The Lord of the Rings: Gollum"? Do they expect low profit or do you only apply it on Total War?

    Lack of content for fantasy? Hmmmmm.... Please explain because I Strongly Disagree!
    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,187

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    jamreal18 said:

    First of all, Do people know how much Tolkien sells their license for game developers?

    Second, Do people really believe it won't sell as expected?

    Third, Do people think WH license is cheap?

    ______________________
    Based on my research,

    *There is another game based on Middle Earth is being developed by another company right now.
    *The price of license for TV is different from the price of license for games.
    *Third Age Mod which was developed from years ago is still being played right now.
    *Some games are being modded and revived into LotR like Third Age and BfME Reforged because of its popularity.


    I was thinking if a very small company like are games can get the rights to make a LOTR board game and get John Howe to make beautiful artwork, why cant CA?

    https://www.aresgames.eu/games/war-of-the-ring-line
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,187

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,187

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,678

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
  • BordigaBordiga Registered Users Posts: 316
    edited December 2020

    Although I would love a Total War set in the Middle Earth, and in fact I would insta buy it for sure, at the same time I also sort of share the concerns and objections that for such a project Commisar1 has remarked.

    Post edited by Bordiga on
    All opinions my own.

    Medieval II is still the best Total War.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249
    One objection is that it would not have enough sandbox aspects because it is to much good vs evil. I was thinking of the board game war of the ring

    https://www.aresgames.eu/games/war-of-the-ring-line


    these are great in depth grand strategy war games based on the books of tolkien. Now what I love best about them is the replayability, no game ever is the same the replay is endless. You never know what the war will go like. I have had the dwarves attack mordor, ents relief the site of minis tirrith, eagles and nazgul fight over edoras, gandalf leading an army of elves into dol guldor, lorien and rivendell sacked, isengard capturing the grey havens, the shire, and helms deep, mumakil invading rohan by sea, the witch king at the head of an easterling army as they wipe out the dwarves, frodo being corupted by the ring, etc etc the options are endless.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,187

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,678
    edited December 2020

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.
    What is balance in your opinion? Can you please explain?

    How about Warhammer? How is it balanced while LOTR isnt?
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,055
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.
    What is balance in your opinion? Can you please explain?

    How about Warhammer? How is it balanced while LOTR isnt?
    Warhammer is asymmetrically balanced. For example, humans don’t have much in the way of monsters but they have firearms.

    Lord of the Rings isn’t asymmetrically balanced, it’s just asymmetric. One side has an endless horde of monsters of various sorts, the other is just outnumbered and outmatched soldiers who only win because the One Ring was destroyed.

    That being said, lots of LotR games break lore (actually, almost all do), so one could get away with a TW strategy game.

    This entire argument is dumb, however, because there almost certainly won’t be a LotR TW. It’s very similar to WH with less variety and is a more expensive license.

    CA now has a lot of experience making fantasy units in a strategy game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t just go and try to make their own IP do they don’t need to pay fees and have full creative control of the property.
    ò_ó
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 249

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,187

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.

    So then your lack of diversity does not apply to total factions but units, and not on all factions just the free peoples factions. As I said before you show evidence of only having seen the movies. I have taken notes through my readings and have come up with hundreds of various units. The third age mod has done a great job but even they could not make all units such as eagles etc. Yes, Rohan [who would be my first choice] would be limited in selection, but you can always choose another more diverse faction if you wish. But how less divers are they than a typical historical tw game? How many men factions have a womrtounge, a saurman, a gandalf, flying giant eagles, and dwarves and elves interacting with them?

    the units would be standard anglo Saxon units plus calvary, like spearmen, swordsmen, horse archers, calvary, general body guards, kings guards, peasants, generals etc but it is no less diverse than any normal human faction. And to me I am ok with that, I love rohan [who also vary in units from each district] and they would be my top choice.
    jamreal18 said:

    Evil factions - fully fantastical with every type of monster.

    Good factions - Thrones of Britannia.

    Are you suggesting no one bought Shogun TW, empire, Rome, TOB, medieval or the many other tw's with far less diversity than a Middle-earth TW would have. Add in the first two ages and you get much more.

    The "good" factions would have dwarves, elves, and men as basic races with variation between each race as well. I cant imagine TOB having a Galadriel, giant eagles, ents, hobbits, aragorn, an army of the dead, beornings, master elrond, rings of power, Gandalf, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, goldberry, and on and on. Yes there is variation more with the evil factions, but the free peoples offers more than any tw game ever made not named Warhammer. Try third age mods and look at the factions and units.
    Nope, I didn’t suggest that.
    than you no longer hold to your argument? or it only applies to LOTR but no other CA game.
    No, I'm saying you misunderstood what I said. Reread and give some thought, because what you came up with was nothing like what I argued.

    I wish you would stop being so secretive and show us your in-depth knowledge you have of Tolkien you keep to yourself. You argue for a lack of diversity [false but besides the point] but compared to any tw game not named Warhammer [I don't know have not played] you are ok with less diversity in other TW games.
    All the diversity is in the evil faction. How much diversity do you think you’re going to get in Rohan? Oh look it’s a spearman.. nay a Rohan spearman. Oh no.. not just spearman.. but heavy cavalry as well.. amazing.

    Like I said, some factions will look like a ToB faction while evil factions will get goblins, monsters, flying mounts, trolls etc.

    The factions are poorly balanced for a game like TW.
    Do you know Third Age Mod?
    How about Rise of Mordor Mod?
    How about Last Alliance?

    So can you tell all those modders that LotR is poorly balanced for TW?
    1. I don't care about some mod.
    2. The fact that you believe having half the factions with quite tedious standard army make ups against the infinitely more interesting evil factions is ok.. and why not play a different faction (an evil faction?)
    3. You've not said anything that will make the human factions more interesting. The weight of the book series was to show the struggle of man against terrible unachievable odds.

    Unless they totally make up new good factions, this will be an unbalanced game.

    The reference to the mod was to show just how much variation is available if one is willing to accept it. The fact you claim half the factions are men shows how little you know.


    You misunderstand Tolkien on so many levels I am unsure of where to start. even if the ring had not been destroyed let's say it was hidden. After minis Tirith Sauron would be boxed in Mordor, dol guldor destroyed after failed attempts on Lorien, and the Easterlings dispersed in the north after the siege of Erebor. Nowhere is it a struggle of men, but of free peoples vs sauron. Elves, dwarves, ents, eagles, hobbits, dead armies etc and more played a role aginst him.


    I know it is hard for anyone to see how they could disagree with ourselves, but to me I would if i had the choice, be a free peoples faction 90% of the time. I would rather fight for the side i love than what represents evil to me, the shadow. I would love to be the rohhirm [who are as diverse as 99.9% of all tw factions ever made] and fight aginst those evil monsters. I would love to have a chance of allying with galadriel or elrond in battle aginst the balrog in moria. To fight along side or recruit treebeard and the ents to wipe out the wizard saruman. To combine with dwraves, men and elves in an assault on dol guldor. To receive the aid of giant eagles and a great wandering wizard as i repel nazgul from my lands. to befriend argaorn and team up with his summoned army of the dead to retake the lost city of gondor. To retreat to my fortress of helms deep when needed.

    I see far more divserity in playing this "man" faction then 99.9% of any tw game made. Both in who i fight aginst, and who i fight beside. if you don't think it is diverse enough, play as elves, or dwarves, or an evil faction. Or, don't buy the game or wait for a mod or exspansion on the first two ages that would unlock far more diversity. Because for everyone like you who don't like the free peoples, there are some like me who would much rather play as a free peoples nation.





    You write a lot but say little -

    Rohan - horse lord faction, similar to your average ToB faction.

    Gondor - heavy infantry faction, with light infantry scouts.

    These 2 are the main factions of men but will not translate to TW

    What exciting units do the Dwarfs have?

    What exciting units do the Elves have?

    Don’t talk fluff just give hard facts. I’m saying the good units have little diversity and repeating Eagles and Ents isn’t going to change this. You’re suggesting the only way you can change this is to combine the good army into one huge mess?

    This is a fact - the good armies are not diverse and will not stack against WHTW, at best we could get s Saga game out of it.

    Let’s see your unit list prove me wrong.

  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,678
    edited December 2020
    @davedave1124 have you seen any of the 3 mods I mentioned?

    What is your opinion about BFME 2?

    What do you want to say to those who play Third Age Mod?
    Warlocke said:

    It’s very similar to WH with less variety and is a more expensive license.

    So what if it less varied than Warhammer? Do LotR fans complain?

    More expensive? Do you know the exact amount? People also said before that WH rights was expensive. I believe the rights for games is cheaper than the rights for tv/movie productions.

    So which fantasy game will be made into total war in your opinion?
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