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Patch Notes are out!! Discuss!

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  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 1,264
    edited December 2020
    Could open up space for something else along the lines of the grail reliquary or even an "eye of the gods" type ability where you get a random buff from one of the gods with an activation.

    I.e. Press it and they gain regen/Frenzy/ITP/magic missile/mortis effect

    But if they rout whilst it's active they turn into spawn like spirit essence of chaos

    Particularly thematic possibly imbalanced.

    But you get the idea
  • mambofffanmambofffan Registered Users Posts: 7
    edited December 2020
    Asamu said:


    Eh, Sigvald is actually the best starting lord for Chaos

    .

    He WAS the best to start with, I agree. But now Archaon's factionwide buff is imo better (+27%WS for all units all armies !!!) than starting with hellcannon or +3 Horde Growth for only one lord. It's probably better to ignore Sigvald now, at least as long as his recruiting conditions remain so difficult :,(

    Or just add his faction ability to recruit marauders champions to retains is factionwide buff after turn 20

    Diplomacy with Norsca ? They need to fight themselves to unit, they need help to defend against brets, they're unable to seriously help you, and they fight the same targets as you for diplomacy bonuses... I've always get better result with Moulder, VC or even Azagh^^

    Edit ; if we are supposed to play Sigvald with marauders, removes Hordes Infighting please ^^
    Post edited by mambofffan on
  • 77Nate7777Nate77 Registered Users Posts: 1

    That encouragement change was a bad nerf to aspiring champions.....I wonder why they decided to do this now.

    Feels like they may have taken the main purpose for the unit unless they gave it something else.

    I think Aspiring Champs got a +4 to WS (along with chosen) and also +40hp per model so atleast that’s something for them... still can’t see them being used to much though :(
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 38,847

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  • turrehundturrehund Registered Users Posts: 321
    Bunch of changes all around. Runes now have 200m cast range for Dwarfs.

    Orion: +20% PR, -20% MR, fire while moving - Was giving him a free +20% PR really warranted? He seems like an absolute worldbeater now with the knockback changes, fire while moving etc.

    PENUMBRAL PENDULUM:
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 36
    PENUMBRAL PENDULUM UPGRADED
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 36
    SEAFANG
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 54
    Armour-piercing vortex damage from 36 to 27

    Could someone with more knowledge about the numbers give a hint as to how significant this nerf is? Does seem like an indirect buff to tight infantry frontlines in a few matchups where Pendulums and Seafangs just insta-deleted units left and right.
  • Gilgamesh1Gilgamesh1 Registered Users Posts: 717
    LOL almost no change for Beastmen, this is a hidden hint for the Next DLC maybe. they are saving energy to do all in one block
  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 870
    edited December 2020
    Bretonnia are looking good so far. The Companions have been pushed up to 1600 and Fey has less MD, which seems reasonable, but combined with the mass changes that may end the dreaded Bretonnian foot squad. Squires are reworked into something more competent at a higher pricepoint, Halberds are cheapened and Mounted Yeomen are finally buffed. Good news for those who wanted Unicorns to be more distinct, too!

    It's a shame that Beastmen aren't getting too much, the modest buffs for Razorgor Chariots will be mitigated by mass changes. However, apart from maybe slightly cheaper Centigor Great Weapons and an end to flying Gorebulls, there isn't much you can do to their roster.

    Good magic changes too, squarely aimed at summons, Burning Head, Pendulum and Sea Fang. Shame healing magic isn't addressed, but that would likely require a deeper look at its mechanics, and more than enough deep mechanical changes are featured elsewhere.
    Post edited by blindjonn on
  • outrage4outrage4 master engineerRegistered Users Posts: 423
    Fey buffed lmao.
  • Gilgamesh1Gilgamesh1 Registered Users Posts: 717
    blindjonn said:

    Bretonnia are looking good so far. The Companions have been pushed up to 1600 and Fey has less MD, which seems reasonable, but combined with the mass changes that may end the dreaded Bretonnian foot squad. Squires are reworked into something more competent at a higher pricepoint, Halberds are cheapened and Mounted Yeomen are finally buffed. Good news for those who wanted Unicorns to be more distinct, too!

    It's a shame that Beastmen aren't getting too much, the Khazrak change doesn't seem to be in the patch notes and modest buffs for Razorgor Chariots will be mitigated by mass changes. However, apart from maybe slightly cheaper Centigor Great Weapons and an end to flying Gorebulls, there isn't much you can do to their roster.

    Good magic changes too, squarely aimed at summons, Burning Head, Pendulum and Sea Fang. Shame healing magic isn't addressed, but that would likely require a deeper look at its mechanics, and more than enough deep mechanical changes are featured elsewhere.

    to be honest, there are lots of slight changes that could be done to improve BM.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,217
    turrehund said:

    Bunch of changes all around. Runes now have 200m cast range for Dwarfs.

    Orion: +20% PR, -20% MR, fire while moving - Was giving him a free +20% PR really warranted? He seems like an absolute worldbeater now with the knockback changes, fire while moving etc.

    PENUMBRAL PENDULUM:
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 36
    PENUMBRAL PENDULUM UPGRADED
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 36
    SEAFANG
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 54
    Armour-piercing vortex damage from 36 to 27

    Could someone with more knowledge about the numbers give a hint as to how significant this nerf is? Does seem like an indirect buff to tight infantry frontlines in a few matchups where Pendulums and Seafangs just insta-deleted units left and right.

    Orion is a divine avatar, so him being more of a factor on the battlefield is justified.

    The changes to the frontline-cleaner spells look good, makes infantry frontlines no longer something you can just disrespect. I think how it works is that vortices do base damge in their center and then gradually less the further you get towards the rim of their effect. So this is actually a pretty big nerf.

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,018
    As if we needed less reasons to use Magic, lol.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,217
    Amonkhet said:

    As if we needed less reasons to use Magic, lol.

    O yeah, because magic was sooo useless before this.

    Listen, magic is in fact so effective, you cripple yourself not bringing it, period. I'm not even bothering to argue this.

    Nerfing spells that made frontlines irrelevant is a good thing.

  • RheingoldRheingold Registered Users Posts: 793

    Amonkhet said:

    As if we needed less reasons to use Magic, lol.

    O yeah, because magic was sooo useless before this.

    Listen, magic is in fact so effective, you cripple yourself not bringing it, period. I'm not even bothering to argue this.

    Nerfing spells that made frontlines irrelevant is a good thing.
    This.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,018

    Amonkhet said:

    As if we needed less reasons to use Magic, lol.

    O yeah, because magic was sooo useless before this.

    Listen, magic is in fact so effective, you cripple yourself not bringing it, period. I'm not even bothering to argue this.

    Nerfing spells that made frontlines irrelevant is a good thing.
    You always take magic as its easy to take a caster; but it doesn't have much real impact barring one or two spells.
  • ShevaTsarShevaTsar Registered Users Posts: 411
    Not enough Bretonnia buffs.
    Where are the price cut on Paladins, the AP missiles on peasent bowmen, the buff to lance formation or the price cut on Trebuchet?

  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 870
    edited December 2020

    blindjonn said:

    Bretonnia are looking good so far. The Companions have been pushed up to 1600 and Fey has less MD, which seems reasonable, but combined with the mass changes that may end the dreaded Bretonnian foot squad. Squires are reworked into something more competent at a higher pricepoint, Halberds are cheapened and Mounted Yeomen are finally buffed. Good news for those who wanted Unicorns to be more distinct, too!

    It's a shame that Beastmen aren't getting too much, the Khazrak change doesn't seem to be in the patch notes and modest buffs for Razorgor Chariots will be mitigated by mass changes. However, apart from maybe slightly cheaper Centigor Great Weapons and an end to flying Gorebulls, there isn't much you can do to their roster.

    Good magic changes too, squarely aimed at summons, Burning Head, Pendulum and Sea Fang. Shame healing magic isn't addressed, but that would likely require a deeper look at its mechanics, and more than enough deep mechanical changes are featured elsewhere.

    to be honest, there are lots of slight changes that could be done to improve BM.
    There's a few of them in the first patch notes - things like chariots being invisible in forests, restructuring of unit caps and their infantry being buffed by the mass changes (BM infantry is great at all tiers, so that's a big one). I do wonder what happened to that Khazrak change, I was interested to see how that one performed. EDIT: Ah, it's in the items/abilities section.
    Post edited by blindjonn on
  • FrookFrook Registered Users Posts: 184
    There are a lot fewer changes for empire than I expected.
  • turrehundturrehund Registered Users Posts: 321

    turrehund said:

    Bunch of changes all around. Runes now have 200m cast range for Dwarfs.

    Orion: +20% PR, -20% MR, fire while moving - Was giving him a free +20% PR really warranted? He seems like an absolute worldbeater now with the knockback changes, fire while moving etc.

    PENUMBRAL PENDULUM:
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 36
    PENUMBRAL PENDULUM UPGRADED
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 36
    SEAFANG
    Base vortex damage from 72 to 54
    Armour-piercing vortex damage from 36 to 27

    Could someone with more knowledge about the numbers give a hint as to how significant this nerf is? Does seem like an indirect buff to tight infantry frontlines in a few matchups where Pendulums and Seafangs just insta-deleted units left and right.

    Orion is a divine avatar, so him being more of a factor on the battlefield is justified.

    Well, I agree that Orion should be powerful, but the +20% PR combined with Cloak of Isha combined with regen and unbreakable seems like something that would make him a nightmare.
    Amonkhet said:

    As if we needed less reasons to use Magic, lol.

    ... You think magic is overrated?

    Another question: Max Splash Attacks - do you want to have many or few, or is it situational? Does increasing max splash attacks make someone a worse duelist in a blob but a better chaff clearer?

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,217
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    As if we needed less reasons to use Magic, lol.

    O yeah, because magic was sooo useless before this.

    Listen, magic is in fact so effective, you cripple yourself not bringing it, period. I'm not even bothering to argue this.

    Nerfing spells that made frontlines irrelevant is a good thing.
    You always take magic as its easy to take a caster; but it doesn't have much real impact barring one or two spells.
    LoL, "one or two spells". How about most healing, summoning and snaring spells? And of course before this nerf, just having a fire or shadow mage was enough to just reduce infantry lines to a joke, encouraging the use of chaff infantry just to fill as much space as possible.

    Magic is highly metarelevant.

  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,518
    edited December 2020
    Frikking orion gets 20% phy resist

    They added near +50% on treekin dmg lol, ive never seen a buff this insane since luminark

    LOLLLLLLLLLL they nerfed greenknight, holycrap thats hilarious
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  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 870
    Fantastic to see BOBB's shield, Khalida's armour and the Arch Lector's speed normalised. Great little changes that nerf or buff a unit in the right direction while improving the consistency of the game.
  • CA_DuckCA_Duck Registered Users, CA Staff Posts: 1,617
    turrehund said:



    Another question: Max Splash Attacks - do you want to have many or few, or is it situational? Does increasing max splash attacks make someone a worse duelist in a blob but a better chaff clearer?

    You generally want a number of splash attacks targets that kills most infantry in one hit, but doesn't overkill them. A lot of the old "Duelist" characters would simply overkill on attacks, wasting up to half of their damage against infantry. Duelists would technically be more likely to kill models on attacks, but this would also significantly reduce their effective DPS. This patch includes a fair share of changes to make characters that were previously duelists into more universal melee damage dealers. This should have no change in how they fight against characters and monsters in melee, as there is another mechanic that concentrate all damage from a splash attack area into these high value targets. In short, all splash attackers are already duelists, so the old duelist design of focusing more damage on fewer targets was flawed.
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • NinaranNinaran Registered Users Posts: 277

    Asamu said:


    Eh, Sigvald is actually the best starting lord for Chaos

    .

    He WAS the best to start with, I agree. But now Archaon's factionwide buff is imo better (+27%WS for all units all armies !!!) than starting with hellcannon or +3 Horde Growth for only one lord. It's probably better to ignore Sigvald now, at least as long as his recruiting conditions remain so difficult :,(

    Or just add his faction ability to recruit marauders champions to retains is factionwide buff after turn 20

    Diplomacy with Norsca ? They need to fight themselves to unit, they need help to defend against brets, they're unable to seriously help you, and they fight the same targets as you for diplomacy bonuses... I've always get better result with Moulder, VC or even Azagh^^

    Edit ; if we are supposed to play Sigvald with marauders, removes Hordes Infighting please ^^
    I'm just glad there's a real choice now. Before there was no competition since he was the most awkward to unlock AND had the .. not best, but "least bad" faction effects. Now there's an actual option, and that is positive to me.
  • RheingoldRheingold Registered Users Posts: 793
    Thanks Duck. Looks like some comprehensive changes. Not sure what some of the changes actually mean... but still nice support.

    BTW
    What does Mount Projectile Intersection Radius and Mount Entity radius do?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 29,217
    edited December 2020
    Rheingold said:

    Thanks Duck. Looks like some comprehensive changes. Not sure what some of the changes actually mean... but still nice support.

    BTW
    What does Mount Projectile Intersection Radius and Mount Entity radius do?

    I really hope it means they don't have those tiny danmaku/bullet hell hitboxes anymore.

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,018
    Some real weak buffs still on Depth Guard of all kinds.
  • RheingoldRheingold Registered Users Posts: 793

    Rheingold said:

    Thanks Duck. Looks like some comprehensive changes. Not sure what some of the changes actually mean... but still nice support.

    BTW
    What does Mount Projectile Intersection Radius and Mount Entity radius do?

    I really hope it means they don't have those tiny danmaku/bullet hell hitboxes anymore.
    Thats what I'm hoping as well. Would be great to be able to actually shoot eagles and phoenixes for a change.
  • CA_DuckCA_Duck Registered Users, CA Staff Posts: 1,617
    Rheingold said:

    Thanks Duck. Looks like some comprehensive changes. Not sure what some of the changes actually mean... but still nice support.

    BTW
    What does Mount Projectile Intersection Radius and Mount Entity radius do?


    Projectile Intersection Radius is a multiplier for the Entity Radius used for projectile hits (e.g. a 1.1 projectile intersection radius would result in the entity being +10% larger for the purpose of determining whether a projectile hit them).

    Entity Radius determines entity soft collision size, which is used for a lot of things like collision detection and "hit box".
    Formal disclaimer: any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 870
    Amonkhet said:

    Some real weak buffs still on Depth Guard of all kinds.

    You might be surprised. Lots of small changes to different stats has a compounding effect, they'll perform much better now.
  • FrookFrook Registered Users Posts: 184
    Amonkhet said:

    Some real weak buffs still on Depth Guard of all kinds.

    While cautious balance is great for units slightly over or under performing. I think some units are so far from being viable they need more drastic changes to make them viable. I get that CA doesn't want to overbuff units but this type of slight nudge until it works doesn't work well with 3-4 month patches with one hotfix after. Not trying to rock the boat too much accomplishes exactly that.
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