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Blessed Field Trebuchets proposal

Compiled_with_LLVMCompiled_with_LLVM Registered Users Posts: 228

The problem

There is no doubt that BFT is one of the worst picks in the game because (1) it is a cost-inefficient unit in general and (2) there is a better&cheaper analogue in the same roster.

Basically, the normal FT ($650) is outperforming BFT in most scenarios despite being $200 cheaper.

The main question here is "How can BFT be improved in order to become an unique unit?"

Well, from what I know the difference between FT and BFT is that the latter is enchanted in some way so...

The proposal

Let BFT apply some "magical" debuff on contact. Be it a DOT effect similar to skaven Poisoned Wind debuff or Blinded! (-27MD -26MA) similar to Solar Bastiladon.

In that way the BFT unit can get its unique feature that would differ it from the cheaper analogue as well as make it cost-efficient.
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Post edited by CA_Will#2514 on

Comments

  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    Before they do that why don't they adjust the AOE so that it damages the enemy stuff?
  • DarokDarok Registered Users Posts: 52
    An armor debuff to help against high armored unit late game or a magic resistance debuff to synergise with grail units could be nice i suppose.
  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 936
    I wouldn't want to see another poison wind effect, but I think the lack of friendly fire should apply to all the damage, it's unintuitive otherwise. A debuff is a great idea, too. Either way, I agree that it should have a support role.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,987
    edited December 2020
    Well first off the description needs to STOP LYING to players about non friendly dmg. Tho its an unintentional tooltip error, it came across that way to literally all players who got their knights murderered by friendly fire

    Only then we can start the balance. Blessed treb needs to be completely dif from regular treb. Its a dead garbage roster that has no room for duplicate units.

    They can
    - make it homing like hellcannon while significantly reducing the damage
    - make it multi-shot where its simply cut and paste, resizing, recolouring of eagle bolt multishot into small water pellets.

    There is an sort of extreme idea.
    The REVERSE of plague claw contaminate, allies hit by blessed trebs gets +10 ld buffs, asuming the once and for all truly solve the non friendly dmg.
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  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,182
    Remove all friendly fire, slight accuracy buff.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,987

    Remove all friendly fire, slight accuracy buff.

    Not enough really, even with that, why pay $850 to do $650 job

    Bret roster cant afford another duplicate unit. They have to rework this, not improve or tweak but complete rework.

    Bret desperately need new units, this is too good an opportunity to pass
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  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,849
    I think if it did NO friendly fire damage it would certainly have a place in the roster. The +10 leadership to allies is a neat idea too.
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  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    edited December 2020
    Explosions can do NO friendly fire, so I think that's where the money is at.

    CA can make the projectile do NO (zero) damage, and just have the explosion damage which is safe.
  • WitchbladeWitchblade Registered Users Posts: 1,007

    Remove all friendly fire, slight accuracy buff.

    This, or add slight homing to the blessed projectiles.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,987
    Even with 0 friendly fire, its really not doing anything.

    U dont have line of sight to be able to shoot, so its really a moot point trait. Even ground targeting is clunky and really just not worth the time.
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  • Tennisgolfboll#5877Tennisgolfboll#5877 Registered Users Posts: 13,317
    edited December 2020
    yst said:

    Remove all friendly fire, slight accuracy buff.

    Not enough really, even with that, why pay $850 to do $650 job

    Bret roster cant afford another duplicate unit. They have to rework this, not improve or tweak but complete rework.

    Bret desperately need new units, this is too good an opportunity to pass
    This. How long will it take for CA to catch up to this i wonder? Took them over a year to fix rampage (great change but sloooow) and years to fix kockdowns (amazing but that timeframe was disgusting)
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    edited December 2020
    Blessed Trebuchet Repairs mod

    If you use mods, try this out. All I did was increase the explosion damage to match the regular treb and then an addition 25% to match the 33% higher price tag. So you are getting 25% more damage and it's mostly safe...

    I didn't change the projectile damage or accuracy or any of that. It's really simple.
  • yst#1879yst#1879 Registered Users Posts: 9,987
    Unfortunately thats unacceptable and bad for bret, there really is no justification in any way there be a treb clone. Be it stronger or what not.

    They need to be a completely different unit. Hell they can even make it a single battery unit instead of 3. Bret CANNOT afford to have duplicate clone units, having treb and blessed treb is a gift. One that is destined to give bret a chance to diversify.

    They r also the ONLY artillery in game thats a duplicate.

    Look at all the art dwf got, none of they r dupes, even flame cannon is completely dif from the others, altho a complete garbage but still.

    Orks, 1 catapult, other a diving doom.

    Emp, all different roles
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  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,337
    Its the power of flc by the lady it will not age well, unless CA finally give them a dlc and proper rework.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    edited December 2020
    Firstly, it is a duplicate unit. It's literally the same thing with a fancy glow on the projectile. Much like blessed carnosaur, it's still going to act like a carnosaur.

    +magic attack (that's a buff and a debuff)
    +safe splash
    +25% damage
    +33% gold cost

    Secondly, the whole point of the unit is the safe explosion with the friendly splash animation. That's the blessing. You might as well enjoy it rather than nerf it into the dirt like it is now.


    Could we add more stuff on.. sure...

    If I were to do anything further I would increase the radius of the explosion and animation, but that would cost gold.

    Could we make it an uber trebuchet? Big Bess style? We could... That would explain the bigger explosion and more range.

    Magic Resistance Debuff... oof that could get really expensive.

    Doom Diver tracking will cost an extra +600g and I am against that, because it cheapens the sacrifice of every single doom diver. Do you really want that on your conscience? When Bretonnians get a peasant cannon we can have another talk.

    Pox debuff... sure we could have a separate pox trebuchet.

    Maybe we could add charmed or some other debuff. It would be neat if we could add a blessing to friendly troops hit by the explosion. Benediction: +5MA, +10LD (this might be pretty difficult to accomplish...) We could do Sundering though for +100g.
    Post edited by Bastilean#7242 on
  • User_ClueUser_Clue Registered Users Posts: 1,572
    Bastilean said:

    Firstly, it is a duplicate unit. It's literally the same thing with a fancy glow on the projectile. Much like blessed carnosaur, it's still going to act like a carnosaur.

    +magic attack (that's a buff and a debuff)
    +safe splash
    +25% damage
    +33% gold cost

    Secondly, the whole point of the unit is the safe explosion with the friendly splash animation. That's the blessing. You might as well enjoy it rather than nerf it into the dirt like it is now.


    Could we add more stuff on.. sure...

    If I were to do anything further I would increase the radius of the explosion and animation, but that would cost gold.

    It's not quite that simple. The Blessed treb has more direct damage but less explosive damage. A direct hit on a unit like Demis from both trebs will do roughly the same damage (I tested it a few times and direct hit does ~500 damage) the only difference is that the Blessed Treb will kill 2 models and the regular one wont.

    The opposite is true for infantry (greatswords). The damage is again the same (~550), but the regular one averages about twice the kills (~7:3). (I was really confused by that, but after 4 successful hits from both that's what it averaged out to) The regular one also does a lot more damage on indirect hits which are common because the treb is so inaccurate.

    I wouldn't say you're paying for +25% damage because it wont actually do more damage unless you're maybe hitting a monster.
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  • blindjonnblindjonn Registered Users Posts: 936
    Bastilean said:

    Could we make it an uber trebuchet? Big Bess style? We could... That would explain the bigger explosion and more range.

    That'd be fun.

    But it should probably serve as a unique RoR rather than an expensive standard unit.

  • Uagrim#4644Uagrim#4644 Registered Users Posts: 2,080
    blindjonn said:


    But it should probably serve as a unique RoR rather than an expensive standard unit.

    The Warwolf as a bretonnian RoR sounds fun. Just one super trebuchet to rip into enemy elite infantry.

    About the blessed one.

    I'm not sure if its meant to fight monsters or fight infantry. They could make it the bretonnian variant of a canon give it a bonus vs large and a better accuracy while removing the no friendly fire ability. Or they could live it up as a support unit by swaping its Explosive damage to projectile damage ratio with the standard treb so that its more useful with the no friendly fire ability.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,182
    Its meant to fight infantry, trebs were known to be amazing against infantry in TT.
    But in game, well, they are kinda trash. Usuable in some situations.

    Blessed Trebs could get homing +50 -100

    Or
    slight better accuracy and completely no friendly fire. Its not that crazy that a rock wont hit bretonnian knights, the lady's blessing literally turns away cannonballs and missiles at times. The rock is blessed to not hit the blessed knights.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,337
    Honestly tbey should just give it as ammo option for normal trebs and just get rid of this unit ,its pointless visually as well.


    Instead CA could in theory give bretonnia a lp, and than add a unit to replace it as flc.

    I am sure bargrain the abbot had a crazy invention or two from reverse engineering the skaven.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Bastilean#7242Bastilean#7242 Registered Users Posts: 2,939
    edited December 2020
    User_Clue said:

    I wouldn't say you're paying for +25% damage because it wont actually do more damage unless you're maybe hitting a monster.

    Yeah, that's exactly right, which is why CA should buff the explosion of the Blessed Treb to at least the parity of the vanilla treb. Otherwise, who care if it's splash is safe if it doesn't have any?
    Uagrim said:




    blindjonn said:


    But it should probably serve as a unique RoR rather than an expensive standard unit.

    The Warwolf as a bretonnian RoR sounds fun. Just one super trebuchet to rip into enemy elite infantry.
    yup
    blindjonn said:

    About the blessed one...

    they could live it up as a support unit by swaping its Explosive damage to projectile damage ratio with the standard treb so that its more useful with the no friendly fire ability.

    That's what I am saying! For some reason they didn't double down on what they were intending to do... It's like, we have the technology, but we were afraid to use it.
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