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CA's most beautiful mistake

CanadianNewbCanadianNewb Registered Users Posts: 47
CA deserves an award for the most beautiful campaign map ever yet created for this type of game. I don't need to go into any detail why but the point is that it's also lead to one of the biggest failures of the game. Infinite replayability: the game as of now only feels replayable after every DLC drop but the feeling quickly fades and unless you can figure out how to design a far more challenging and intelligent AI opponent your only option in many of your fans minds is what you CANNOT do:

Random map generator

With how you made the map this is impossible
BUT
what if you could slice the map you already made and then add customizable options, for example I want to play a game using only Ulthulan and I want all the settlements to be divided by 10 factions I want there to be 6 high elves 2 dark elves a beastman and an orc and goblins and I want everyone to start at war with eachother.

If you could provide a way for players to create their own scenarios just from smaller sections of your already created map then customize you would create infinite possibilities and replayability for the community

Comments

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,410
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,654
    I dont know what I'm reading here.
    Beastmen

  • CanadianNewbCanadianNewb Registered Users Posts: 47
    Surge_2 said:

    I dont know what I'm reading here.

    A custom campaign generator using CA's map but either preferably slicing out whatever part of the map you wanted to battle over OR preset options of the most popular chunks of the map
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,297
    I feel like I've walked into a drunken conversation 2 hours in and have zero context.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


  • HowTheStarsBurnHowTheStarsBurn Registered Users Posts: 381
    The game is delicately balanced around starting areas, everything would be seriously imbalanced on a random map or if you decide to mess with factions.
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 10,641
    Looks like too much work for something that isn't needed.

  • ROMOBOYROMOBOY Registered Users Posts: 3,944
    I mean what you suggested sounds pretty cool. But it would take a lot of work I’d imagine.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    Cathay > Chaos Dwarfs = Pain

  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,945
    Not interested
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,577
    I could see an RMG working. Back in the tabletop days, Games Workshop themselves presented the potential of having map-based campaigns based around multiple factions trying to seize a previously unexplored area (Lumbria, perhaps).

    It would solve the tension between players who want the map to behave in a reasonably lore-accurate fashion and those who want every game to play out differently - the latter could play on random maps and have a different experience every time. With the caveat that LLs would no longer be balanced around start positions, and some item quests might also have their key locations randomised a bit.
  • EterlikEterlik Registered Users Posts: 286
    I would like that.
    Just play on a small portion of the huge map.
    Then we could at least finish the campaigns without the slog that endgame atm is.
    just some quick stabby stabby and out. 10 minutes of advanture
  • petertel123petertel123 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 961
    edited December 2020

    The game is delicately balanced around starting areas, everything would be seriously imbalanced on a random map or if you decide to mess with factions.

    Look, I dont like this idea very much, but to call the game "delicately balanced" is laughable.
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Dark Elves
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,410
    That sounds more like some crappy small spinoff game called TW: Warhammer Adventures that wastes time, effort, money, delays DLCs, gets launched on mobile, and ultimately dies after 14 months.
  • SultschiemSultschiem Registered Users Posts: 2,690

    CA deserves an award for the most beautiful campaign map ever yet created for this type of game. I don't need to go into any detail why but the point is that it's also lead to one of the biggest failures of the game. Infinite replayability: the game as of now only feels replayable after every DLC drop but the feeling quickly fades and unless you can figure out how to design a far more challenging and intelligent AI opponent your only option in many of your fans minds is what you CANNOT do:

    Random map generator

    With how you made the map this is impossible
    BUT
    what if you could slice the map you already made and then add customizable options, for example I want to play a game using only Ulthulan and I want all the settlements to be divided by 10 factions I want there to be 6 high elves 2 dark elves a beastman and an orc and goblins and I want everyone to start at war with eachother.

    If you could provide a way for players to create their own scenarios just from smaller sections of your already created map then customize you would create infinite possibilities and replayability for the community

    What IS possible however, is randomize the starting locations of factions as a mod already did that.
    Or to give strength modifiers/randomizers to different factions (unnatural selection mod).
  • Ingr8Ingr8 Registered Users Posts: 2,004
    If the Huntsmaster campaign was just Lustria with late incursions by Nakai and Mazdamundi that could be interesting.

    I must admit that my campaigns do tend to stop after I have conquered or subjugated a specific area
    Dreaming of mighty Lumbria

  • Steph_F_DavidSteph_F_David Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,844
    Having several theatres of war (Ulthuan, Southlands, Lustria, Naggaroth, Badlands, Athel Loren, Old Worlds, Darklands, Far East, Chaos Realms...) with travel points to go from one to another would actually be a good idea.
    - No need to crop the maps to have them fit together, each map can be detailed.
    - Easy for expansion: CA could release game 3 without Cathay and the far east theater, and if they want to add Cathay, they don't need to expand a fixed size map : they add a new theater, and the necessary travel points to link it to other maps.
    - Allow some campaign customization : you could play only the Old World, or Old World + Southlands, or Nagarroth + Ulthuan... or everything!
  • CanadianNewbCanadianNewb Registered Users Posts: 47

    Having several theatres of war (Ulthuan, Southlands, Lustria, Naggaroth, Badlands, Athel Loren, Old Worlds, Darklands, Far East, Chaos Realms...) with travel points to go from one to another would actually be a good idea.
    - No need to crop the maps to have them fit together, each map can be detailed.
    - Easy for expansion: CA could release game 3 without Cathay and the far east theater, and if they want to add Cathay, they don't need to expand a fixed size map : they add a new theater, and the necessary travel points to link it to other maps.
    - Allow some campaign customization : you could play only the Old World, or Old World + Southlands, or Nagarroth + Ulthuan... or everything!

    I like the idea of theaters but I doubt the AI would be able to play around them at all. Being able to say I want to fight in Lustria but I want all the cities to be divided up between just 3 factions , lizard men, VCoast and skaven and I start as just a naval expedition army off the coast instantly creates a more challenging and enjoyable scenario than mortal empires could ever give having to wait for my perfect moment to expand as the other 3 wage war upon eachother as they would be so much stronger at the start and that's just one of infinite scenarios
  • Steph_F_DavidSteph_F_David Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,844
    I doubt it would be more difficult for the AI, Empire for example to think it has to make an expedition from Altdorf to a travel point to Lustria that it is to go from Altdorf to Lustria directly.

    It may even be easier with the possiblity to split the AI to several level (a global AI, and theatre AI). CA may already have done this actually.

    And also, use of travel points would simplify the AI work for long distance travel as they would have fewer routes to consider, pathfinding maybe easier.

    And CA already did that with Empire, so they have some experience
  • CanadianNewbCanadianNewb Registered Users Posts: 47

    I doubt it would be more difficult for the AI, Empire for example to think it has to make an expedition from Altdorf to a travel point to Lustria that it is to go from Altdorf to Lustria directly.

    It may even be easier with the possiblity to split the AI to several level (a global AI, and theatre AI). CA may already have done this actually.

    And also, use of travel points would simplify the AI work for long distance travel as they would have fewer routes to consider, pathfinding maybe easier.

    And CA already did that with Empire, so they have some experience

    If they're already planning something like this for game 3 I agree but if we're basing this off of empire definitely not they were easily abused by this feature if they used it at all they would never send armies across theaters only naval units to harass yours as you tried to build up a trade empire
  • Steph_F_DavidSteph_F_David Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,844
    Good thing we don't have navies then... The AI would have to send armies :).

    And the experience from Empire can also help them with what didn't work and should be fixed.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,410

    I feel like I've walked into a drunken conversation 2 hours in and have zero context.

    The thing is..the thing...is..the thing..IS...you're a great guy. No, shut up, you're..great..I mean it...like..the greatest...

    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Registered Users Posts: 2,760
    Blasphemy! keep your board game ideals out of here! TOTAL WAR Forever.
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • CanadianNewbCanadianNewb Registered Users Posts: 47

    Blasphemy! keep your board game ideals out of here! TOTAL WAR Forever.

    ??
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