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What happened to CK with lance or DP?

ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
I haven't played this game for two years.but when I came back, I found that CK with lance have 55%-45% winrate against DP rightnow,I'm so confused,I mean 2 years ago,CK with lance can win every 1on1 battle vs DP,usually left 1k5 around HP
But I tested with my friends today,10 groups of CK with lance,only 6 won and left 1K2 HP around...


And most importantly!!!
If they charge each other in the original formation,CK with lance have 0%win rate,this has never happened before.

As I know, there is no stats change to them in the past two years.

So how did this happen,is there some ninja buff/nerf to them or I miss read some buff to DP?

It's hard to imagine CK with lance has higher price,slower speed,lower LS, lower shield block rate,no range and healing support but still have chance lose to DP =_=
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Comments

  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500
    edited December 2020
    Drag prince has always been underpriced by at least $125-$150 so no surprises there. Far superior than chaos knights since day one.

    +11 more and +12 more speed lol, hardly a contest at all. Basically ure fighting a $1550 cav being priced at $1400 so if ure still looking at them cheaper than chaos knights its wrong.

    They even used to have xtra free mass, lukcily that got balanced so basically whats left now is extra free block and of coz stupidly underpriced
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  • WitchbladeWitchblade Registered Users Posts: 899
    I think both Chaos Knight variants can safely get -25 gold. I would like them as Empire, but in a rush faction that doesn't have that much chaff, they're just too slow to go around the flanks and they often get bogged down in unfavorable engagements.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500


    Line drag prince vs default demi lance



    Line chaos knighs vs default demi lance
    Seriously dunno why they performt his badly, maybe bad rng or they simply suck hard without the 20% resist to block ap
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  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
    yst said:



    Line drag prince vs default demi lance



    Line chaos knighs vs default demi lance
    Seriously dunno why they performt his badly, maybe bad rng or they simply suck hard without the 20% resist to block ap

    Bloody hell...it must be some ninja buff to DP,I remember clearly that DP can't beat demi with lance too!!!!!whatever what formation they have.
  • hanenhanen Registered Users Posts: 512
    Tests gotta be made vs another player and not vs the AI. You also have to make lots of them as there is RNG involved.

    Yst above is the famous author of YsTests and are, most of the time, less reliable than a tweet from the current Potus.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
    hanen said:

    Tests gotta be made vs another player and not vs the AI. You also have to make lots of them as there is RNG involved.

    Yst above is the famous author of YsTests and are, most of the time, less reliable than a tweet from the current Potus.

    I think i said i test with my friend,not AI
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,114
    Are you testing them in the same conditions? Max width for both units, etc?

  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
    Pocman said:

    Are you testing them in the same conditions? Max width for both units, etc?

    Yes,with long formation,like i said CK with lance vs DP have like 55%-45% winrate.
    With original formation(no change),CK with lance lose to DP 100%,no any chance.
    Neither has happened before.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
    edited December 2020
    Even I didn't play this game for two years,atleast I played for 2000 hours before,and got TOP10 in both WH1 and WH2 leaderboard,so I don't make mistakes on the most basic formation problem.


    If someone still doesn't believe it,please leave a message and add me,i will test with you,because the results won't change.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,114

    I don't know what to say... tested them four times at max width. Simple test, just one charge, no cycle charging. Clear win for chaos warriors lances v unchevroned dragon princes in all my tests.


    https://ibb.co/Wt7VP5j

    https://ibb.co/9YNqKT8


    Dragon princes have better leadership, so maybe one lucky charge made one of the dragon princes win and then that produced a mass rout?wi


    Tested them once at standard width, chaos lances won again.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
    edited December 2020
    Pocman said:


    I don't know what to say... tested them four times at max width. Simple test, just one charge, no cycle charging. Clear win for chaos warriors lances v unchevroned dragon princes in all my tests.


    https://ibb.co/Wt7VP5j

    https://ibb.co/9YNqKT8


    Dragon princes have better leadership, so maybe one lucky charge made one of the dragon princes win and then that produced a mass rout?wi


    Tested them once at standard width, chaos lances won again.

    Ahhh,just add me,let's test 10 groups,what's ur steam ID
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,819
    I would have to repeat tests but I regularly beat dp with demi lances so intuitively I would not expect dp to win. If they do they still lose in real games though when both sides get support.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500
    hanen said:

    Tests gotta be made vs another player and not vs the AI. You also have to make lots of them as there is RNG involved.

    Yst above is the famous author of YsTests and are, most of the time, less reliable than a tweet from the current Potus.

    Thats normally what losers say. Either that or they fail so hard at reading.
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  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500


    Bloody hell...it must be some ninja buff to DP,I remember clearly that DP can't beat demi with lance too!!!!!whatever what formation they have.

    They normally dont, tho it wouldnt matter as much when chaos knight is a $1500 and the other is a $1400 that outperforms them.

    Ld itself is already a massive value. Chaos knights lance themselves could really get a -$100 cut while drag princes sitting at $1400
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  • turrehundturrehund Registered Users Posts: 321
    I'd rather we stop with the 1v1 comparisons using units with Martial Prowess, which is especially jarring when we're talking about units with Martial Mastery.

    I don't find Dragon Princes overperforming in actual multiplayer battles.

    Agreed with mentioned buff in above post, Chaos Knights could probably use a slight cost reduction, but it should be because of comparisons with other cav units for the same cost, not Dragon Princes.
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,512
    yst said:



    Line drag prince vs default demi lance



    Line chaos knighs vs default demi lance
    Seriously dunno why they performt his badly, maybe bad rng or they simply suck hard without the 20% resist to block ap

    congrats of fabricatings tests to such a degree that you are able to make even Demi Lances lose vs Dragon Princes. Your maneuvers and whatever idling you make the unit you're interested in seeing losing do have massively improved.
    mightygloin_fan_1
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500
    Green0 said:

    congrats of fabricatings tests to such a degree that you are able to make even Demi Lances lose vs Dragon Princes. Your maneuvers and whatever idling you make the unit you're interested in seeing losing do have massively improved.

    Ya lets not be stupid lol, all tests r replay backed. Even if not can easily be replicated, just the usual boring fail elf stuffs wasting communitys time with elf talks
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  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,819
    Dp vs demi lances is pretty even in a 1v1, but in real games demi lances supported by Karl and life crush dp supported by Larry and a noble. Test is not average but possible to get without cheating I would say, just try a few times.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 9,682
    i think CH lance need cost decrease.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 4,114

    I would have to repeat tests but I regularly beat dp with demi lances so intuitively I would not expect dp to win. If they do they still lose in real games though when both sides get support.

    CK lances, not demis.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,819
    Pocman said:

    I would have to repeat tests but I regularly beat dp with demi lances so intuitively I would not expect dp to win. If they do they still lose in real games though when both sides get support.

    CK lances, not demis.
    Yst was ytesting them vs demis and ck vs demis to make dp look bad like he always does, etc. Ck lances is another story, they grind worse than dp iirc while normal ck are the ones that can grind better. Don't remember exactly how well though.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 20,994
    Let's avoid the personal remarks in the posts folks. Discuss the thread topic.

    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500


    Yst was ytesting them vs demis and ck vs demis to make dp look bad like he always does, etc. Ck lances is another story, they grind worse than dp iirc while normal ck are the ones that can grind better. Don't remember exactly how well though.

    Oh relax lol, drag prince has always been a garbage cav that only worth like $500 max anyway

    Every elf knows that

    Problem is not enough freebies
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  • griffithxigriffithxi Registered Users Posts: 1,027
    edited December 2020

    I haven't played this game for two years.but when I came back, I found that CK with lance have 55%-45% winrate against DP rightnow,I'm so confused,I mean 2 years ago,CK with lance can win every 1on1 battle vs DP,usually left 1k5 around HP
    But I tested with my friends today,10 groups of CK with lance,only 6 won and left 1K2 HP around...


    And most importantly!!!
    If they charge each other in the original formation,CK with lance have 0%win rate,this has never happened before.

    As I know, there is no stats change to them in the past two years.

    So how did this happen,is there some ninja buff/nerf to them or I miss read some buff to DP?

    It's hard to imagine CK with lance has higher price,slower speed,lower LS, lower shield block rate,no range and healing support but still have chance lose to DP =_=

    DP have had AP buff I believe is what happened since then.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113

    I haven't played this game for two years.but when I came back, I found that CK with lance have 55%-45% winrate against DP rightnow,I'm so confused,I mean 2 years ago,CK with lance can win every 1on1 battle vs DP,usually left 1k5 around HP
    But I tested with my friends today,10 groups of CK with lance,only 6 won and left 1K2 HP around...


    And most importantly!!!
    If they charge each other in the original formation,CK with lance have 0%win rate,this has never happened before.

    As I know, there is no stats change to them in the past two years.

    So how did this happen,is there some ninja buff/nerf to them or I miss read some buff to DP?

    It's hard to imagine CK with lance has higher price,slower speed,lower LS, lower shield block rate,no range and healing support but still have chance lose to DP =_=

    DP have had AP buff I believe is what happened since then.
    Yes,but thats happened before i AFK,they(DP) got AP buff to 13 i remember that,In fact this is very strange, in the early test version of WH2,CK with lance have only 13 AP If I remember right,but still can beat DP 100%,although there will be less HP left.

    In subsequent versions CK with lance got a big AP buff,HP buff.but DP just got a little bit AP buff,there is no way DP have chance to beat CK with lance in 1on1 rightnow,so I'm confused, actually when they charging each other,sometimes DP can deal massive damage to CK in flash.dont know how this working but there must be something wrong
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Registered Users Posts: 5,819
    Are you sure you are not mixing ck lances up with ck without lances? I am pretty sure ck without lances will do better vs dp in a 1v1 grind to the end?

    From launch dp have been more nerfed than buffed I think, lost 5 pr and got 1 ap swap.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113

    Are you sure you are not mixing ck lances up with ck without lances? I am pretty sure ck without lances will do better vs dp in a 1v1 grind to the end?

    From launch dp have been more nerfed than buffed I think, lost 5 pr and got 1 ap swap.

    No.sword CK can beat DP no anyproblem thx for their high stats and they got huge damage buff before.but the win rate about CK with lance is extremely unstable.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Registered Users Posts: 1,113
    edited December 2020
    https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMd26MpVdk0jK7q_dXCEO6CjqgkY0rbzdbHdQSC

    I don't remember that DP had ANY chance to beat CK with lance two years ago...
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,500
    edited December 2020
    Drag prince has always been one of the most overtuned cav in game, uve to look at them as if chaos knights r fighting a superior $1550 cav, that way the whole thing makes sense.

    Very easy to see whose the superior cav, just try both on demis and ull see, or any other cav in game really.
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  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,512

    Dp vs demi lances is pretty even in a 1v1, but in real games demi lances supported by Karl and life crush dp supported by Larry and a noble. Test is not average but possible to get without cheating I would say, just try a few times.

    I think even in 1v1, Demi Lances win. Halberd ones win for sure, the lances I have never tested here though they should win also cuz they don't have BvL but have stronger charge and more MD. After the charge, DPs do very little dmg to Demis, both due to the 36 MD blocking the moderate MA of the DPs and the 125 armor.

    Open to test it vs player to debunk the lies spread by some people on these forums.
    mightygloin_fan_1
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