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The Green Tide Too Strong-Strong!

HaiphongHaiphong Registered Users Posts: 68
in Balancing Discussions
Since the Greenskin update, every game I've played so far (No mods here) has had a total Old World domination by Grimgore.

It is really awesome to see Da 'Ardest back on top, but it makes every campaign kinda samey. A lot like how the Blue Tide (Thorgrim) used to take over before the update.

Speaking of Thorgrim, I don't think I've ever seen him survive past turn 50. Whenever I can check on him, he doesn't even have a Defense building in his capital. Grimgore just steamrolls him, and if I'm playing Ungrim then most of the time he's just out for a walk in my neck of the woods leaving his home defenseless.

When CA was tweaking the AI, I think they might have messed something up for him?

Grimgore's faction is just too powerful in game right now. If I'm playing on that side of the globe, it's a constant struggle to keep up with his WAAAGH stacks, never mind if I'm being attacked on all sides (which I am, always in the Old World). I only play on Hard Difficulty so I don't think it should be this tough...

Forget the Chaos Invasion, Grimgore brings the end times early.

I would really appreciate it if anyone from CA could take a look at how things are balanced in Mortal Empires currently. I know you did some major reworks over the last year to make them act more appropriately, but something's off. Thorgrim should be able to hold on to that mighty Karak a little more reliably without me running across the continent to bail him out every time.

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this!
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Comments

  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 5,618
    Greentide, Empire and Skaven seem to be the most consistent top dogs and i'd mainly blame the confederation spam for that.
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  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,218
    edited December 2020
    Since the greenskin update ive done atleast 50+ campaigns long enough to see either the dwarfs or greenskins destroyed.

    In all but 2 the dwarfs have won.
    Post edited by Tennisgolfboll on
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
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  • SaandroSaandro Registered Users Posts: 73
    Yeah Grimgor has been #1 in all of my campaigns aswell. In ME it's always Grimgor, Malekith and Franz that come out on top.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    mightygloin said:

    Greentide, Empire and Skaven seem to be the most consistent top dogs and i'd mainly blame the confederation spam for that.

    I use a mod that removes the confederation cheats on higher difficulties and Grimgor still expands strongly, albeit not as cancerous as before. So if anything, these cheats need to be taken out of the game.
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  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,218
    edited December 2020
    Saandro said:

    Yeah Grimgor has been #1 in all of my campaigns aswell. In ME it's always Grimgor, Malekith and Franz that come out on top.

    Never seen him on top (str rank 1 many times but that is turn 50ish, by 100 he is dead either by dawi or skaven).

    Both times he got the dwarf the skaven eventually got him.

    His winrate is 0% for me over hundreds of hours.

    Reikland, dwarfs are the ones who pretty much always (95% maybe) are the top dogs in my campaigns. Over and over and over.

    How i long to see a green tide.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,218
    ShiroAmakusa75 said:

    mightygloin said:

    Greentide, Empire and Skaven seem to be the most consistent top dogs and i'd mainly blame the confederation spam for that.

    I use a mod that removes the confederation cheats on higher difficulties and Grimgor still expands strongly, albeit not as cancerous as before. So if anything, these cheats need to be taken out of the game.
    No mods here.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • RheingoldRheingold Registered Users Posts: 1,219
    edited December 2020
    Tennisgolfboll said:

    Since the greenskin update ive done atleast 50+ campaigns long enough to see either the dwarfs or greenskins destroyed.

    In all but 2 the dwarfs have won.

    Not sure if we are playing the same game. Dawi get stomped most of the time in my campaigns. Only mod - recruit defeated LL. Grimgor destroys them before turn 50 mostly.
    Overturned at the moment: Empire and Ulthuan who are the biggest beneficiaries of the latest patch. Dark elves have no concept of how to deal with the new Chaos invasion. And the empire sits back and lets Kislev/Moulder take the hammer blow and then calmly moves in to clean up.

    So the ordertide is still a thing, but the dawi are often not part of it.

    And it's getting somewhat repetitive to mention, but if you struggling with the order tide just download a order nerf mod. It's a different game and can be really tough, some campaigns you absolutely get the end times feeling.
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  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,218
    edited December 2020
    Rheingold said:

    Tennisgolfboll said:

    Since the greenskin update ive done atleast 50+ campaigns long enough to see either the dwarfs or greenskins destroyed.

    In all but 2 the dwarfs have won.

    Not sure if we are playing the same game. Dawi get stomped most of the time in my campaigns. Only mod - recruit defeated LL. Grimgor destroys them before turn 50 mostly.
    Overturned at the moment: Empire and Ulthuan who are the biggest beneficiaries of the latest patch. Dark elves have no concept of how to deal with the new Chaos invasion. And the empire sits back and lets Kislev/Moulder take the hammer blow and then calmly moves in to clean up.

    So the ordertide is still a thing, but the dawi are often not part of it.

    And it's getting somewhat repetitive to mention, but if you struggling with the order tide just download a order nerf mod. It's a different game and can be really tough, some campaigns you absolutely get the end times feeling.
    Yeah doesnt sound like we are (and we kinda arent mods can have bugs beyond what they "do"). In my unmodded games ive only once seen grimgor wipekaraz a karak before turn 40ish. Then he died to eshin.

    Once grimgor wiped them a turn 80ish. Then wiped by mors and eshin.

    Atleast 50 times (maybe as many as 100) ive seen karaz a karak roll over them. 90-95% of the time ive got a dawi tide. Over and over. Im so sick of it.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,218
    And the latest patch ive gotta say despite DEs getting attacked by chaos (and ive not put it to off yet, mostly on VH) DEs have come out untop between them and HEs 50/50 (or even 60-40) up from maybe DEs winning 30% of the time.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,972
    Haiphong said:


    Speaking of Thorgrim, I don't think I've ever seen him survive past turn 50. Whenever I can check on him, he doesn't even have a Defense building in his capital. Grimgore just steamrolls him, and if I'm playing Ungrim then most of the time he's just out for a walk in my neck of the woods leaving his home defenseless.

    Pretty sure Karaz-a-Karak does not have a defensive building.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 12,218
    Uagrim said:

    Haiphong said:


    Speaking of Thorgrim, I don't think I've ever seen him survive past turn 50. Whenever I can check on him, he doesn't even have a Defense building in his capital. Grimgore just steamrolls him, and if I'm playing Ungrim then most of the time he's just out for a walk in my neck of the woods leaving his home defenseless.

    Pretty sure Karaz-a-Karak does not have a defensive building.
    It doesnt. It has a large and good garrison automatically.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
  • EsnidyEsnidy Registered Users Posts: 7
    I would say 80% of games Grimgor gets a strong early game push to the mid game. And then gets beaten late game after over expanding. I think Grimgor is where he needs to be. Sometimes he takes out thorgrim sometimes he doesnt. But he usually ends up losing.

    Empire vs Vampires needs to be fixed. Drycha messed it all up.
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  • clifton87clifton87 Registered Users Posts: 34
    Last 3 campaigns (Bretonnia-Empire-Ikit Skaven) I've played Grimgor unites the badlands and the world's edge mountains alongside the badlands before I get there (although that has made it more interesting tbf since id rather be fighting a strong enemy with multiple stacks than lots of dross). He also seems not to have a cool down on any RoR. As soon as he confederates the Green Prophet they just take over that area.
    The big take over of the western world has always been Cult of Pleasure who absolutely curb stomp the HE very early on every time.
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  • HaiphongHaiphong Registered Users Posts: 68
    Uagrim said:


    Pretty sure Karaz-a-Karak does not have a defensive building.

    Oh! I see, that explains it then, hahah. I thought it was some really awful AI to have such a large settlement and no garrison.
    Shows I've never played Throgrim :')

    Thank you.
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  • coupdegrasscoupdegrass Registered Users Posts: 47
    Tennisgolfboll said:

    Saandro said:

    Yeah Grimgor has been #1 in all of my campaigns aswell. In ME it's always Grimgor, Malekith and Franz that come out on top.

    Never seen him on top (str rank 1 many times but that is turn 50ish, by 100 he is dead either by dawi or skaven).

    Both times he got the dwarf the skaven eventually got him.

    His winrate is 0% for me over hundreds of hours.

    Reikland, dwarfs are the ones who pretty much always (95% maybe) are the top dogs in my campaigns. Over and over and over.

    How i long to see a green tide.
    Same here - he always gets steamrolled by Eshin/Mors and Dawi.
    Flag · Disagree Agree
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