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How should CA wrap up the Empire?

IchonIchon Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 5,387
edited February 25 in General Discussion
The Empire despite being the most iconic faction of the Old World also has the fewest Legendary Lords of any WH1 race except Bretonnia.

The largest missing piece of the Empire is the Cult of Ulric and while I think many expect CA to introduce Boris of Middleheim I think the missing piece would be filled best by the Al-Ulric, Emil Valgeir who is more of a battlemage rather than the pure caster of Balthazar Gelt and would be the hybrid LL that the Empire needs as well as allowing Knights of the White Wolf cavalry, Teutogen Guard, Warriors of Ulric, and possibly Wolf-kin as new units.

I think CA would have to tip their hand quite a bit on the new Chaos mechanics if they redo Beastmen or leave them mostly as the current poorly implemented Horde faction which relatively few people seem to want to play.

It would be more natural to have Beastmen redone in WH3 and that separated the original DLC from by a whole game and would justify a higher price compared to a re-work that adds maybe a couple of new units to the Beastmen roster. Beastmen are decent candidates but the final strike against is that they are another WH1 race and extremely unlikely to see them as 2nd part of DLC for WH2 where both races are WH1.

The Mad Count of Averland? Great character, would be quite fun to have an Empire character written that way but he is down in Averland near Sylvania and has Gelt as his neighbour to boot, so unless CA decides to put him somewhere else on one of his mad crusades (would be very cool) probably not.

The largest empty spot on the map to me is the area of the Empire between Altdorf, Ostmark, and Sylvania. Ludwig Schwarzhelm has a history in Ostland but is supposed to be near the Emperor's side so I am not sure CA would put him there and I think Valten and Luthor Huss are unlikely due to Volkmar already being an LL.

That leaves the most likely candidate... the Al-Ulric while adding the Cult of Ulric which is the last most important aspect of the Empire that has been completely ignored so far.

That would give the Empire 5 LLs and leave Boris for a WH3 FLC as I think he will represent the Empire on the edge of the WH3 map. Ulric has many enemies, the god of war could really have any antagonist but of the remaining WH2 races the Dark Elves would make the most sense especially if the map of WH3 is a globe and the west coast of Naggarond is to the east of Cathay meaning CA does not have to reserve a start position for DE.

However, I think a Norscan is the most likely as Norsca currently has only 2 LLs and it is not clear how much Norsca will be included in the Chaos re-work for WH3 and Norsca is technically part of WH2 and deserves at least on par with the other FLC faction of Bretonnia which has 4 LLs.

Anyone know of a good Norscan LL candidate?

Even if CA does not introduce the Cult of Ulric in the next DLC and instead saves it for some mega combined map DLC to wrap-up the Empire, how do you all feel the Empire should be completed?

YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.

Comments

  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    Cult of Ulric DLC - Emil Valgeir.
    Middenland FLC - Boris Todbringer
    ? DLC - Kurt Helborg
    ? FLC - Elspeth Von Drakken.

    Volkmar moved and given his own faction working as a horde/semi-horde.

    This are the things I consider necessary, 8 LL are a good number, and I don't really think there are any other LL worthy of being added, maybe Jubal Falk, but I think he is more of a LH.

    Also, Emil wouldn't be a hybrid caster, that would be Elspeth role, she rides a Carmine Dragon.

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,347
    edited February 26
    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.
  • Lampros73Lampros73 Registered Users Posts: 158

    Cult of Ulric DLC - Emil Valgeir.
    Middenland FLC - Boris Todbringer
    ? DLC - Kurt Helborg
    ? FLC - Elspeth Von Drakken.

    Volkmar moved and given his own faction working as a horde/semi-horde.

    This are the things I consider necessary, 8 LL are a good number, and I don't really think there are any other LL worthy of being added, maybe Jubal Falk, but I think he is more of a LH.

    Also, Emil wouldn't be a hybrid caster, that would be Elspeth role, she rides a Carmine Dragon.


    1. Valten is preferred over all others for me.

    2. Certainly no more horde factions. In fact, get rid of the existing ones and transform them into more regular factions.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    Lampros73 said:

    Cult of Ulric DLC - Emil Valgeir.
    Middenland FLC - Boris Todbringer
    ? DLC - Kurt Helborg
    ? FLC - Elspeth Von Drakken.

    Volkmar moved and given his own faction working as a horde/semi-horde.

    This are the things I consider necessary, 8 LL are a good number, and I don't really think there are any other LL worthy of being added, maybe Jubal Falk, but I think he is more of a LH.

    Also, Emil wouldn't be a hybrid caster, that would be Elspeth role, she rides a Carmine Dragon.


    1. Valten is preferred over all others for me.

    2. Certainly no more horde factions. In fact, get rid of the existing ones and transform them into more regular factions.
    1. To me Valten is not even LL material, maybe LH, there are characters deserving the spot of LL more than a Sigmar wanabe.

    2. Hordes are here to stay, so better if CA tryes to fix them, also Volkmar could work as a semi horde were he goes around building temples of Sigmar.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 11,043
    Dlc cult of ulric emil
    Flc boris , flc 2 gold wizard
    Mid size rework with religions
    Dlc Nuln with falk
    Flc kurt helborg with medium flc that adds more sp only knight stuff.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • GordregGordreg Registered Users Posts: 43
    1 ) The Winter Wolves Expansion
    Middenland as a Faction needs to happen. And as Boris needs to happen but is technically already in the game, the best way for this to happen would be to introduce many Cult of Ulric units into another faction to allow Boris to be the 'free' LL option - and since the first post also asks for a good Norscan LL candidate, I'll give them;

    Ulricsson Haargald.

    A 'Winter Throne' roster could give us an Ulric (and therefore, order)-aligned Norscan subfaction as half of the paid part of one DLC that cuts out the most openly Chaos parts of the Norse roster to replace them with the Ulrican forces that Boris would also be able to recruit, and which an Empire faction that has consolidated Middenland would also be able to access.


    2) The Fire and & Founderies Expansion
    Elspeth Von Drakken would probably be the LL lord pick here, whilst units could include such things as Hochland long-riflers (as an equivalent to Warplock Jezzails) and an Empire version of that Huge Vamp.Coast gun (since it was originally looted from one of their ships to begin with). Basically, anything highly explosive or Mechanised the Empire doesn't have access to yet. This expansion could also be used to give us an Imperial Dwarf unit, as these are supposed to be a thing.


    3) Hearth and Heartland Expansion
    Helmut Feuerbach and Talabacland. With some Halfling (possibly Lumpin Croop?) as the free LL also added for this expansion. Either way, this would offer the Empire both Taalite units of Humans and the Halflings of the Moot in such forms as Field rangers and a Halfling Hotpot weapons-team style unit.


    Valten should be added as the faction's LH option at some point, but I think it less important when; as he doesn't really need to add anything but himself and a mission chain for imperial factions to recruit him if events don't spawn him automatically..
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 2,993
    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,347

    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
    What would Boris bring that Emil doesn't bring?
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    Gordreg said:

    1 ) The Winter Wolves Expansion
    Middenland as a Faction needs to happen. And as Boris needs to happen but is technically already in the game, the best way for this to happen would be to introduce many Cult of Ulric units into another faction to allow Boris to be the 'free' LL option - and since the first post also asks for a good Norscan LL candidate, I'll give them;

    Ulricsson Haargald.

    A 'Winter Throne' roster could give us an Ulric (and therefore, order)-aligned Norscan subfaction as half of the paid part of one DLC that cuts out the most openly Chaos parts of the Norse roster to replace them with the Ulrican forces that Boris would also be able to recruit, and which an Empire faction that has consolidated Middenland would also be able to access.


    2) The Fire and & Founderies Expansion
    Elspeth Von Drakken would probably be the LL lord pick here, whilst units could include such things as Hochland long-riflers (as an equivalent to Warplock Jezzails) and an Empire version of that Huge Vamp.Coast gun (since it was originally looted from one of their ships to begin with). Basically, anything highly explosive or Mechanised the Empire doesn't have access to yet. This expansion could also be used to give us an Imperial Dwarf unit, as these are supposed to be a thing.


    3) Hearth and Heartland Expansion
    Helmut Feuerbach and Talabacland. With some Halfling (possibly Lumpin Croop?) as the free LL also added for this expansion. Either way, this would offer the Empire both Taalite units of Humans and the Halflings of the Moot in such forms as Field rangers and a Halfling Hotpot weapons-team style unit.


    Valten should be added as the faction's LH option at some point, but I think it less important when; as he doesn't really need to add anything but himself and a mission chain for imperial factions to recruit him if events don't spawn him automatically..

    Of you want a Norscam LL that actually has reasons to attack the Empire, the best choice is Lord Mortkin, the closest thing Norsca has to a race leader.
  • BrizthomBrizthom Registered Users Posts: 682
    I would gladly buy a 4 LL "Summon the Elector Counts" campaign pack that adds Middenland, Nuln and Mootland rosters plus the province specific units. Maybe fill out Marienburg or Reikland rosters as well.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
    What would Boris bring that Emil doesn't bring?
    He is already in the game and CA has said multiple times that his time will come, I think that his inclusion as full LL it's not up to debate just when will it happen.
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 4,347
    edited February 26

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
    What would Boris bring that Emil doesn't bring?
    He is already in the game and CA has said multiple times that his time will come, I think that his inclusion as full LL it's not up to debate just when will it happen.
    Oh he will, as a FLC. He doesn't have anything unique.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
    What would Boris bring that Emil doesn't bring?
    He is already in the game and CA has said multiple times that his time will come, I think that his inclusion as full LL it's not up to debate just when will it happen.
    Oh he will, as a FLC. He doesn't have anything unique.
    That is something that no one is arguing, CA is not going to make us pay for LL that is thecnically already in game, the same aplies to the Red Duke.

    That is why most people says that the actual DLC would be Emil, with Boris as the FLC LL of that LP.
  • VandicusVandicus Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 222
    Make the elector counts playable and have additional unique units(not in the RoR style mechanic some of which are perhaps too strong to be able to spam). An additional 10 or so units for the Empire roster isn't out of bounds. Might have to come up with something aside from scripted battles though for the playable counts.
  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 830
    ''One does not simply wrap up The Empire''
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian U.S.S.RRegistered Users Posts: 3,437
    Amonkhet said:

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Marius Leitdorf is literally an LL in Empire 8th edition. Add him as FLC with a different version of Harkon's mechanic and then we have an Elector count LL.
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 431
    Amonkhet said:

    .I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Maybe not all of them. But some have TT models and unique skills and items.

    Justice for Mad Count!
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,375
    edited February 26
    Boris Todbringer - FLC
    Emil Valgeir - DLC
    Marius Leitdorf - FLC
    Jubal Falk - DLC (don't need no carmine dragons, yo! :tongue: )
    Kurt Helborg - DLC

    Ludwig Schwarzhelm: LH
    Theodore Bruckner: LH (part of the Falk DLC)
    Luthor Huss: LH
    Vorn Thugenheim: LH (Part of the Valgeir DLC)
    Post edited by TheGuardianOfMetal on
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!

    #PrayForBorisBokha (don't you dare kill of one of the 2 bigname Kislev characters in Backstory... he's the Bear guy!)

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • eomateomat Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,980
    From my Empire Ultimate Wishlist post:

    1. Cult of Ulric. The list has to start with Toddy. Boris has his day and is given Full LL status. He is hard coded into Middenland colours. Emil Valgeir is made into LL with same start pos in Middenheim. (Same as Volkmar starting with KF). KotWW and Teutogen Guard are added to the list with Ulric priest variant hero joining with axe.

    2. Grandmasters. 1 unique Grandmaster is added as a lord to Knights Panther, KotBS Chapterhouses and Middenheims Temple of Ulric. This unique lord is not a LL but rather visually unique and gives buffs to his respective Chapter. They are recruited from their Chapterhouse and they wear the same armour as their chapter but are given unique heads/helms and a sword and shield. Perhaps KotWW Grandmaster has an axe? Kurt Hellborg added as LL to Castle Reikguard.

    3. Celestial Hurricanum added.

    4. Elspeth von Draken added as LL in the Darklands with control of Nuln similar to Eltharion start. Dark Tower with Garden of Morr at it's base is added just outside of Nuln. Her Carmine Dragon in dark wine red colours blending into black in the spines. Breath flames in the same colour as Shyish spells.

    5. Marius Leitdorf added as LL.

    6. Unique Elector Counts added. Just a few like
    Valmir von Raukov who had a unique Eastern look. Aldebrand Ludenhof with Falcon. Their provincial colours hard coded.

    7. When a lord is made Elector Count themselves and their troops in their army wear the provincial colours unless they are special (Elector Count troops/RoR).

    8. Halfings added to the Moot. Upon building the Grand Cauldron unique building Halfing Archers, Kathleen Soup Tank and Halfing Hot Pot, Rooster Cavalry are recruitable. All units but Steam Tank have stalk. This building is available to Empire, Dow, Ogre Kingdoms and Dwarfs whomever of these holds the Moot.

    9. Generic Gold Wizard added.

    10. Nuln Ironsides added to the game. Wearing armour similar to Greatswords in black, but perhaps wielding Repeating Guns or Grenade Launchers like Outriders. Not sure on this one...but cool idea. Perhaps they replace Steam Tank Emperors Wrath. (See point 14)

    11. Ludwig Schwarzhelm with guardian ability and a bonus to relations with Reikland when standing in a province of another Empire Faction.

    12. Unique settlements and Battle maps Altdorf, Middenheim, Mordheim, Talabheim and Nuln.

    Altdorf: Colleges of Magic and other buildings visible on Campaign map and in Battle map.

    Middenheim: set on a mountain (Ulricsberg) on Campaign map with one way in and out. Skaven holes at its base. Huge Cannon usable in Sieges. In sieges it should be extremely tough to take.

    Mordheim: CA gave the ruins a very cool look but that is lost when you develop it. It could have still ruined sections around it on the Campaign map with evidence of Skaven activity. The battle map could be a battered city with warpstone and a very eerie atmosphere.

    Talabheim: circular set in a crater surrounded by forest.

    Nuln: black smoke from industries with Dark Tower of Elspeth in Background in Battle map.

    13. More visual assets like farms, ruined forts, inns and more added to Campaign map.

    14. More unique Steam Tanks available. When holding certain settlements and have the prerequisite building you gain access to specialised Steam Tanks. Emperors Wrath with Middenheim and Kathleen soup Tank with the Moot and so on.

    15. Master Engineer hero added with Hochland Long Rifle buffing artillery precision, but not making them OP. (No Mechanical Horses, personally I found them weird).
  • Xerxes52Xerxes52 Registered Users Posts: 652
    edited February 26
    I'll take a Gold Wizard hero and eight Wizard Lords please.

    Oh, and some waffle fries.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 20,121
    Emil Valgeir DLC
    Boris TW Access Freebie
    Kurt Helborg FLC
    Elspeth von Draken DLC
    Marius Leitdorf FLC
    Schwarzhelm LH
    Valten LH
    Bruckner LH

    Perfection.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 2,993
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
    What would Boris bring that Emil doesn't bring?
    I am saying that when Emil comes with the middleland dlc they can add Boris as an actual flc lord (voice lines, quests, updated look ect)
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 2,993
    edited February 26

    Boris Todbringer - FLC
    Emil Valgeir - DLC
    Marius Leitdorf - FLC
    Jubal Falk - DLC (don't need no carmine dragons, yo! :tongue: )
    Kurt Helborg - DLC

    Ludwig Schwarzhelm: LH
    Theodore Bruckner: LH
    Luthor Huss: LH (part of the Falk DLC)
    Vorn Thugenheim: LH (Part of the Valgeir DLC)

    Nice selection
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 649
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Empire
    ---------
    -Karl Franz
    -Volkmar the Grim
    -Balthesar Gelt
    -Wulfhart
    -Emil Valgeir = Ulric DLC
    -Valten = End Times Anti-Chaos Lord pack
    -Elspeth von Draken = FLC.

    I don't think the elector counts are really worthy of LL status.

    Boris needs to be updated to a full LL with a flc.

    Also at somepoint we need Kurt and Schwarzhelm as a LL and LH respectively
    What would Boris bring that Emil doesn't bring?
    Hence being FLC
  • panda_express12panda_express12 Member Registered Users Posts: 191
    Empire really needs some wizard lords.
    Rig
    CPU: i7 9700kf 4.6GHz
    GPU: GTX 1070 8GB
    RAM: 16GB 3200mhz
  • mcalexevmcalexev Registered Users Posts: 41
    Gold Wizards. Seriously. It's unfair that Gelt gets his Golden Order faction yet is the ONLY lore of metal wizard available for said faction.
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