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Dwarf Slayer DLC for WH3

TheWattmanTheWattman Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 494
The Dwarfs are set to potentially be one of the main Order factions in WH3 besides Kislev and Cathay, even if only implemented via DLC. They still have a lot to give, both in terms of units and lords. One example would be Karak Azul and Thorek Ironbrow, almost guaranteed to come into the spotlight (maybe) relatively early in WH3's lifecycle. Another option is of course also Josef Bugman. But while Thorek brings Rune updates, plus probably some Engineers as well and Josef is an excellent FLC character to stick anywhere you want, there is another aspect to the Dwarfs that need to be adressed. The Slayers who have not yet been implemented. And depending upon implementation, they could have a very nice set of additions that could be brought in. It is my intention here to outline my thoughts on what the 2nd Dwarf DLC for WH3, released after Thorek has brought on Rune Golems/Guardians, Shieldbreakers and Shard Dragons, all that good stuff.

Now, the two most important Slayers of Warhammer have already been implemented: Ungrim Ironfist and Gotrek. After these, the importence of further named Slayers rapidly diminshes. But still, there are two IMO that stand out more than the rest: Malakai Makaisson and Garagrim Ironfist. One is a disgraced Engineer turned Slayer and a friend of Gotrek, while the other is the son and heir of Ungrim. Malakai stands out due to his close relation to Gotrek, the fact that he uses guns instead of melee weapons (Dwarfs don't have a ranged lord) and the fact that his inclusion would come alongside the Goblin Hewer, a Slayer-themed artillery piece. As for Garagrim, in part because he is Ungrim's son, but also that he is a legendary version of Doomseekers, one of the Slayer units that are to be implemented with the DLC, plus that he has a clear rivalry with Chaos (Khorne in perticular) as he fought during a Khornate siege of Karak Kadrin.

Now, which of these should be the Lord of Slayers? It could be either really, but in terms of playability Malakai has slightly more to offer due to his duality as a Slayer and Engineer, plus his ranged capabilities. However, Garagrim would perhaps make more sense as to the location of the new playable faction he would command. You see, IMO there is one obvious location besides Karak Azul to have Slayer Dwarf playability: Kraka Drak, the home of the Norse Dwarfs and right at the frontlines against Chaos. Garagrim (a royal son of a "nearby hold"), or Malakai, would go to Kraka Drak, perhaps after Great King Thorgard Cromson has been killed and help the Norse Dwarfs to help reestablish a defensive line against the Chaos forces. The WH3 Norsca would then include the other Norse holdings and its your job to unify them, first against Norscan aggression and then against the Daemons. Honestly both Malakai and Garagrim could pull this off, but there is also no reason why Garagrim couldn't be made a Hero to aid Malakai too and eventually also be able to be attached to his father's army.

To aid whoever is put in charge of the defences, they would be accompanied by the following new units:

Daemon Slayer Lord
Dragon Slayer Hero
Doomseekers
Norse Dwarf Warriors
Norse Dwarf Berserkers
(Norse Dwarf Crossbows???)
And as the new centerpiece unit: Either the Tractator Engine (Norse option) or Thunderbarges (Malakai option)

And finally, who would Malakai or Garagrim be facing in the DLC rivalry? Well it should be readily appearant, Chaos. More specifically probably one of the later-added lords for Khorne, perhaps U'Zhul the Skulltaker? U'Zhul specializes in defeating the greatest mortal champions he can find and certainly both Malakai, but perhaps more Garagrim, would fit this profile? The Slayer Prince/Engineer vs a Daemon of Khorne! Pure SLAUGHTER! And the DLC's name? The Slayer & the Skulltaker!

What do you think guys?
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Comments

  • IsmiIsmi Registered Users Posts: 46
    DLC:
    -Malakai Makaisson (LL)
    -Deamon slayer (lord)
    -Dragon slayer (hero)
    -Doomseekers
    -Goblin Hewer
    -Shard dragon (monster unit and mount for slayer characters)
    -Thunderbarges

    New campaign mechanic = Spirit of Grugni

    FLC:
    -Grimm Burlocksson
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 494
    Ismi said:

    DLC:
    -Malakai Makaisson (LL)
    -Deamon slayer (lord)
    -Dragon slayer (hero)
    -Doomseekers
    -Goblin Hewer
    -Shard dragon (monster unit and mount for slayer characters)
    -Thunderbarges

    New campaign mechanic = Spirit of Grugni

    FLC:
    -Grimm Burlocksson

    Shard Dragons are not used by Slayers in that fashion, they never use mounts. They are bound by Runesmiths/Runelords and used as traditional monsters. Otherwise yes, I see the general similarities to my idea.
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 2,357
    I want Slayer Pirates too though. ;)
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Registered Users Posts: 1,652

    I want Slayer Pirates too though. ;)

    Save them for Dogs of War.
    Warhammer Fantasy is less grimdark than 40k.
    Ogre Kingdoms when CA?
    Dogs of War need Ogres and halflings.
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 2,357

    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.

    I like that idea. Those two along with the Thunderbarge, Slayer Pirates, Goblin Hewer as an engineer-focused pack.
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 494

    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.

    Doomseekers and Daemon Slayers for Grimm? Seems a bit unthematic but sure I guess. Would have to locate him somewhere else than Kraka Drak then though.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079

    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.

    Doomseekers and Daemon Slayers for Grimm? Seems a bit unthematic but sure I guess. Would have to locate him somewhere else than Kraka Drak then though.
    Grimm is always innovating, that is why he is kind of hated in the engineer guild, maybe he decided to go to the Far East to study their technologys, and along the way, he met Malakai, Grimm is one of the few Dwarfs that would actually comprehend Malakai inventions and actually work with him willingly.

    Also, Snitch arrived with 2 Skryre units, it's always interesting if a LP has a theme, but it's not really a rule.
  • KrocodileKrew212KrocodileKrew212 Registered Users Posts: 226
    I suppose this could work. For now I'm most looking forward to Far East stuff and how CA can make the underwritten human factions into interesting rosters in their own right. Good to see innovative thinking in other parts of the fandom though.
    Team Ogre Kingdoms

    "We threatened to grind their bones up to make bread if they didn't pay. Course that's just a threat - it takes too long to grind 'em and most of this lot are just as 'appy to eat'em raw." -- Olag Skullcracker, Ogre Tyrant
  • BargrimmBargrimm Registered Users Posts: 292

    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.

    Yes we need them. Dragonslayer Hero and Demon Slayer Lord belonged to the 8th edition for a good reasons. Just because the dwarves get them doesnt mean that other important things like rune system, oath stones, throne bearers and so on shouldnt be implemented.

    Make the Dwarves EXACTLY like in the 8th edition! That was for a good reasons. After that we can talk about fancy things and lords but for start Dwarves need this changes ASAP!
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    Bargrimm said:

    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.

    Yes we need them. Dragonslayer Hero and Demon Slayer Lord belonged to the 8th edition for a good reasons. Just because the dwarves get them doesnt mean that other important things like rune system, oath stones, throne bearers and so on shouldnt be implemented.

    Make the Dwarves EXACTLY like in the 8th edition! That was for a good reasons. After that we can talk about fancy things and lords but for start Dwarves need this changes ASAP!
    Friend, you may have mistaken something I said, I'm only saying that they don't need more Slayer LL, because we already have Ungrim, we certainly need Slayer Lord and Hero, I'm still waiting for them to even okay with Ungrim, but they can arrive in a LP with a LL that doesn't have a condition with them, as I said preciously, themed LP are cool, but not a rule.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,264
    edited February 27
    I think we have more than enough slayers already depending how you categorize Gotrek you could say we have 1,5-2 LL slayers for the dwarfs, plus two different variants. Also Ungrim already heavily focusses on slayers. So I am oversaturated with these nudist dwarfs already.
    And it would be weird if the social outcasts make up a third of the factions available units and regularily lead their armies. (Ungrim still is king and Gotrek is a living legend amongst dwarf, so it makes sense for both).

    I would like to see other dwarfen aspects pushed more, e.g. Rune Magic or Engineering. Thats why I prefer Thorek Ironbow or Grimm Burloskon with fitting units over any potential Slayer LP any time. Maybe a Slayer hero variant, but nothing else.
  • BargrimmBargrimm Registered Users Posts: 292

    Bargrimm said:

    We don't need more Slayer LL, Ungrim is your dwarf for that, the units could easily be added in a LP, with Grimm as the LL and Malakai as his unique LH.

    Yes we need them. Dragonslayer Hero and Demon Slayer Lord belonged to the 8th edition for a good reasons. Just because the dwarves get them doesnt mean that other important things like rune system, oath stones, throne bearers and so on shouldnt be implemented.

    Make the Dwarves EXACTLY like in the 8th edition! That was for a good reasons. After that we can talk about fancy things and lords but for start Dwarves need this changes ASAP!
    Friend, you may have mistaken something I said, I'm only saying that they don't need more Slayer LL, because we already have Ungrim, we certainly need Slayer Lord and Hero, I'm still waiting for them to even okay with Ungrim, but they can arrive in a LP with a LL that doesn't have a condition with them, as I said preciously, themed LP are cool, but not a rule.
    Sorry then. My mistake.
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,701
    Daemon Slayer lords are probably one of GWs worst ideas when you think about what slayers do in the lore. They go die pretty much sums it up. Meaning its their job to go fight the biggest baddest thing instead of commanding the army like a general should. Daemon Slayers are loners because of just how long they've been fighting for and other dwarfs don't appreciate their presence, yhea other slayers follow them because with their luck they'll find a good death but outside of them they are more pitied than anything else.

    Slayer heroes are a good idea but Slayer lords outside of Ungrim who specifically isn't allowed to just go out and die because of his oath as king don't make any sense.

    Other than that I'd don't see Malakai as a LL. He just isn't the type of guy who leads armies or even rules some sort of large hold to warrant him having his own faction. He's an engineer that's what he's good at even if you need someone else on hand to keep his head straight and not allow him to name things.

    He works as a LH for Karak Kadrin but not as a ruler for a faction.
  • eomateomat Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,980
    Really don't want Shard Dragons for Dwarfs. Thunderbarge, Daemon Slayer Lord, Dragon Slayer hero, Goblin Hewer, Malakai and Grimm is what I want.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 494
    Uagrim said:

    Daemon Slayer lords are probably one of GWs worst ideas when you think about what slayers do in the lore. They go die pretty much sums it up. Meaning its their job to go fight the biggest baddest thing instead of commanding the army like a general should. Daemon Slayers are loners because of just how long they've been fighting for and other dwarfs don't appreciate their presence, yhea other slayers follow them because with their luck they'll find a good death but outside of them they are more pitied than anything else.

    Slayer heroes are a good idea but Slayer lords outside of Ungrim who specifically isn't allowed to just go out and die because of his oath as king don't make any sense.

    Other than that I'd don't see Malakai as a LL. He just isn't the type of guy who leads armies or even rules some sort of large hold to warrant him having his own faction. He's an engineer that's what he's good at even if you need someone else on hand to keep his head straight and not allow him to name things.

    He works as a LH for Karak Kadrin but not as a ruler for a faction.

    Grimm is always innovating, that is why he is kind of hated in the engineer guild, maybe he decided to go to the Far East to study their technologys, and along the way, he met Malakai, Grimm is one of the few Dwarfs that would actually comprehend Malakai inventions and actually work with him willingly.

    Also, Snitch arrived with 2 Skryre units, it's always interesting if a LP has a theme, but it's not really a rule.

    I see your points. I mean in all honesty, my ideal scenario would unlock Thorgard Cromson and Kraka Drak as a purely Norse Dwarf option and I thought a Slayer compromise would be the most fitting. Malakai certainly doesn't compare in lord quality to Ungrim (hence why I also pushed Garagrim), but neither really does Grimm IMO, hence why I would favour him as a LH to accompany Thorek.
  • Trebor_twTrebor_tw Registered Users Posts: 599
    Why wait until WH3, WH2 has one lord pack left?

    Malakai, the thunderbarge, doomseekers , the goblin hewer and slayer lord /hero fit together thematically and also rounds out the roster. I would hope the goblin hewer was reimagined as a sort of chariot but thats wishful thinking probably.

    Thorek Ironbrow, Karak Azul, a lord type using a ranged weapon and units based on a deep dive into older things like rune golem/ shard dragon but those units don't sit right with me.

    I'd prefer Thorek Ironbrow and a runelord rework as just a FLC at some point, everything about Malakai, the thunderbarge etc feels right as a full content pack
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,701

    Uagrim said:

    Daemon Slayer lords are probably one of GWs worst ideas when you think about what slayers do in the lore. They go die pretty much sums it up. Meaning its their job to go fight the biggest baddest thing instead of commanding the army like a general should. Daemon Slayers are loners because of just how long they've been fighting for and other dwarfs don't appreciate their presence, yhea other slayers follow them because with their luck they'll find a good death but outside of them they are more pitied than anything else.

    Slayer heroes are a good idea but Slayer lords outside of Ungrim who specifically isn't allowed to just go out and die because of his oath as king don't make any sense.

    Other than that I'd don't see Malakai as a LL. He just isn't the type of guy who leads armies or even rules some sort of large hold to warrant him having his own faction. He's an engineer that's what he's good at even if you need someone else on hand to keep his head straight and not allow him to name things.

    He works as a LH for Karak Kadrin but not as a ruler for a faction.

    Grimm is always innovating, that is why he is kind of hated in the engineer guild, maybe he decided to go to the Far East to study their technologys, and along the way, he met Malakai, Grimm is one of the few Dwarfs that would actually comprehend Malakai inventions and actually work with him willingly.

    Also, Snitch arrived with 2 Skryre units, it's always interesting if a LP has a theme, but it's not really a rule.

    I see your points. I mean in all honesty, my ideal scenario would unlock Thorgard Cromson and Kraka Drak as a purely Norse Dwarf option and I thought a Slayer compromise would be the most fitting. Malakai certainly doesn't compare in lord quality to Ungrim (hence why I also pushed Garagrim), but neither really does Grimm IMO, hence why I would favour him as a LH to accompany Thorek.
    Yhea Grimm doesn't have the lord quality of a King but he is still one of the Engineering guilds most prestigious engineers. He has the political clout to lead a large scale expedition on his own like other characters. He would be the type of dwarf that could be sent on expeditions in order to test his new inventions.

    I wouldn't want him to be rolled with Thorek if possible because the two support very different themes Runes and Technology.
  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,516
    Slayers do not need an entire pack. We have Ungrim as THE slayer lord, and we got 2 slayers units.

    I agree a slayer hero would be great. But then ...

    Furthermore neither Malakai or Garagrim are in the 8th edition rulebook (or in a rule book at all ?). They are not that much known (unless you read the novels of G&F).

    However we are still missing Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow and Grimm Burlokkson.

    Josef and Thorek are some of the most famous Dwarfs, and could bring interesting things (josef buffing rangers and with ambushes bonuses, while beeing a hybrid character, and Thorek with a runic forge).
    Grimm is not as famous but would be a fully ranged character with a workshop and buffing artillery.

    Each would bring a new gameplay another slayer lord could not offer.
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Registered Users Posts: 2,357
    To offer some clarity to the 'should this guy be a lord or hero' debate, here is how it was in the 8th edition TT:

    Lords

    Thorgrim Grudgebearer
    Thorek Ironbrow
    Ungrim Ironfist
    Belegar Ironhammer
    Lord
    Runelord
    Deamon Slayer

    Heroes

    Josef Bugman
    Grimm Burloksson
    Thane
    Runesmith
    Master Engineer
    Dragon Slayer

    So Thorek should be a LL. Grim and Josef should be LHs. Malakai could be either, but honestly his character fits MUCH better as a LH to me than a LL. He's a slayer and an engineer, not a general.

    Of course if CA wants to bend the rules a little and, say, have Grimm or Josef leading an expedition in some faraway place, I am fine with that. ;)
    Justice for Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Registered Users Posts: 1,563
    I don't think anyone cares if dwarfs get a slayer themed dlc. But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people definitely want to get more slayer content one way or another. There are pieces missing from the slayers, end of story.
    Prettiest of the foot overlords.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 494
    Tumble said:

    Why wait until WH3, WH2 has one lord pack left?

    Dwarfs do not belong on the Vortex map. The only thing would be Sven Hasselfriesan's expedition to Lustria, but that's crowded enough as it is. Beastmen, Dark Elves, Vampires and Lizardmen are the main contenders for the last one.
  • AraethonAraethon Registered Users Posts: 768
    Pr4vda said:

    Slayers do not need an entire pack. We have Ungrim as THE slayer lord, and we got 2 slayers units.

    I agree a slayer hero would be great. But then ...

    Furthermore neither Malakai or Garagrim are in the 8th edition rulebook (or in a rule book at all ?). They are not that much known (unless you read the novels of G&F).

    However we are still missing Josef Bugman, Thorek Ironbrow and Grimm Burlokkson.

    Josef and Thorek are some of the most famous Dwarfs, and could bring interesting things (josef buffing rangers and with ambushes bonuses, while beeing a hybrid character, and Thorek with a runic forge).
    Grimm is not as famous but would be a fully ranged character with a workshop and buffing artillery.

    Each would bring a new gameplay another slayer lord could not offer.

    Josef is at best tbh as a LH. His key units are already part of another DLC, so there's honestly nothing he could bring. The fact is the most likely candidates for a dwarf DLC are either going to be runic theme (Thorek) with an accompaying overhall to the dwarfs or a slayer/engineer theme (Malakai/Grimm) with a mix of the two's units.
  • PraiseSigmawPraiseSigmaw Registered Users Posts: 1,652
    Josef Bugman needs to have a spell that makes enemy units drunk.
    Warhammer Fantasy is less grimdark than 40k.
    Ogre Kingdoms when CA?
    Dogs of War need Ogres and halflings.
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Registered Users Posts: 1,457
    Malakai as LL is fitting like Markus Wulfhart is LL.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Malakai as LL is fitting like Markus Wulfhart is LL.

    Markus is the Huntsmarshall, one of the most important ranks in the empire, he is respected by both the people and Karl Franz himself.

    Malakai is an outcast because is both a Slayer and a mad Engineer, he doesn't lead any armies neither commands respect among his people.

    Trying to compare the two is directly wrong.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 12,461

    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Malakai as LL is fitting like Markus Wulfhart is LL.

    Markus is the Huntsmarshall, one of the most important ranks in the empire, he is respected by both the people and Karl Franz himself.

    Malakai is an outcast because is both a Slayer and a mad Engineer, he doesn't lead any armies neither commands respect among his people.

    Trying to compare the two is directly wrong.
    To be honest, it doesn't really matter.

    If CA wants him to be a LL he will be. I don't personally, but I don't have any say in it.
    81jt2dj75iky.png


    Kia Kaha and C'est La Vie Kiwi123, neodeinos and FungusHound, the mighty Troll Slayers.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 2,079

    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Malakai as LL is fitting like Markus Wulfhart is LL.

    Markus is the Huntsmarshall, one of the most important ranks in the empire, he is respected by both the people and Karl Franz himself.

    Malakai is an outcast because is both a Slayer and a mad Engineer, he doesn't lead any armies neither commands respect among his people.

    Trying to compare the two is directly wrong.
    To be honest, it doesn't really matter.

    If CA wants him to be a LL he will be. I don't personally, but I don't have any say in it.
    I know friend, it's just that I cannot stand still when someone makes a comparison so dumb in my opinion.
  • YitterbumYitterbum Registered Users Posts: 372
    Something like the list below would be great to see. A Slayer/Engineer theme to round out the Dwarf's roster. Malakai makes a bit more sense as a LH rather than a LL. Grimm could then be the LL with a dual start at Zhufbar and Karag Dum.

    Legendary Lord:
    - Grimm Burloksson

    Lord:
    - Daemon Slayer

    Legendary Hero:
    - Malakai Makaisson

    Units:
    - Thunderbarge
    - Doomseekers (As a unit rather than a single entity)
    - Prospectors (Miners with steam drills)
    - Goblin Hewer

    RoR:
    - Wrath of Thunder (thunderbarge)
    - Brotherhood of Grimnir (giant slayers)
    - Malakai Makaisson's Goblin Hewer

    FLC Unit Variant:
    - Mountaineers (Thunderers with grudge-rakers and vanguard deploy. Grudge-rakers were one of Grimm's inventions, and it would be easy to implement after the Chaos Dwarfs make it in with their blunderbusses.)

    FLC Hero:
    - Dragon Slayer
  • KrabbzKrabbz FranceRegistered Users Posts: 460
    A Malakai Makaisson LP would be awesome to me.

    He'd bring a mix of slayer and engineer themes with a big and flashy unit to sell well, the thunderbarge. He could be a semi horde faction like Vampire Coast, where you could upgrade the Spirit of Grungni and he could start in Karag Dum in the Chaos wastes. He went there to help the dwarfs fight against demons and it would provide a remote and challenging starting location.
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