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The Battle of Bloodpine Woods Lore and Game

HermodrHermodr Registered Users Posts: 139
in General Discussion

While reading about the Empire I came across a section that mentions this particular battle at the beginning of Karl Franz's reign. In lore is was the ultimate battle against the Spiderclaw Forest Goblin tribe that inhabited the forest but in game it's the first quest battle and you have to fight rebelious reinforcements from Middenheim, even though both Toddy and the Ar-Ulric have voted in favor of Karl Franz coronation in the end...

Does any one knows why this strange change in lore? It seems to make even less sense considering that the introdutory battle with Karl Franz is to counterattack greenskins (I imagine from that same tribe given the lore remarks about it) besieging Altdorf AND during the game battle against the insurrectionists he even warned the soldiers to be aware of the "existence of more than just rebels in the those forest", meaning that he still hadn't yet purged the place.

I know that it's a small issue but just made me curious as to why they even changed...
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  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,401
    Probably for budgetary reasons.

    New models for all the forest goblin units would have probably taken up unnecessary dev time which would have been better focused elsewhere particularly since, at the time, CA was quite cautious about how successful the Total War: Warhammer series would be.

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  • HermodrHermodr Registered Users Posts: 139
    SaintCorn said:

    Probably for budgetary reasons.

    New models for all the forest goblin units would have probably taken up unnecessary dev time which would have been better focused elsewhere particularly since, at the time, CA was quite cautious about how successful the Total War: Warhammer series would be.

    But didn't they already had models for at least goblins and goblin archers? I don't remember if spider riders were at the launch of warhammer 1...
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  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,401
    Hermodr said:

    SaintCorn said:

    Probably for budgetary reasons.

    New models for all the forest goblin units would have probably taken up unnecessary dev time which would have been better focused elsewhere particularly since, at the time, CA was quite cautious about how successful the Total War: Warhammer series would be.

    But didn't they already had models for at least goblins and goblin archers? I don't remember if spider riders were at the launch of warhammer 1...
    Spider riders were in at launch, but forest goblin spearmen and archers would be retextures and remodels.

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  • HermodrHermodr Registered Users Posts: 139
    SaintCorn said:

    Hermodr said:

    SaintCorn said:

    Probably for budgetary reasons.

    New models for all the forest goblin units would have probably taken up unnecessary dev time which would have been better focused elsewhere particularly since, at the time, CA was quite cautious about how successful the Total War: Warhammer series would be.

    But didn't they already had models for at least goblins and goblin archers? I don't remember if spider riders were at the launch of warhammer 1...
    Spider riders were in at launch, but forest goblin spearmen and archers would be retextures and remodels.
    Humm... I guess... but I think it would be ok if they used regular goblins instead of totally change the quest...
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  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,401
    Hermodr said:

    SaintCorn said:

    Hermodr said:

    SaintCorn said:

    Probably for budgetary reasons.

    New models for all the forest goblin units would have probably taken up unnecessary dev time which would have been better focused elsewhere particularly since, at the time, CA was quite cautious about how successful the Total War: Warhammer series would be.

    But didn't they already had models for at least goblins and goblin archers? I don't remember if spider riders were at the launch of warhammer 1...
    Spider riders were in at launch, but forest goblin spearmen and archers would be retextures and remodels.
    Humm... I guess... but I think it would be ok if they used regular goblins instead of totally change the quest...
    Honestly, yeah, I would agree.
    Might have something to do with them being so low tier, and I, personally, would have preferred it to be more lore friendly with the forest goblins.

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  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,479
    edited March 2021
    It could have been changed with the Greenskins update, when Raknik Spiderclaw was added as a workshop lord for GS. He is the actual forest goblin who fought Karl Franz in the lore.

    As for his army:
    Raknik on his Araknarok mount
    Goblin Big Boss on Giant Spider
    Regular Goblins Spearmen/Archers
    Spider Riders (both melee and archers)
    A couple of River Trolls.
    A Doomdiver catapult or two
    An Arachnarok Spider or two. Even better if they get the Spider hatchlings summoning ability (same as the one from Grom's Cauldron and the Araknarok RoR).

    It would be a not so easy to fight army (fast, with artillery and big monsters).
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  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 6,881
    It isn't the same battle. It is just a battle that takes place in the same forest.
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  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 1,212
    CaesarSahlertz said:

    It isn't the same battle. It is just a battle that takes place in the same forest.

    As an ambasador of Loremasters I say...

    ... this guy is right.
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  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,732
    Honestly I really dislike the majority of quest battles. Once you have done them once or twice you really dont want to do them again.
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  • HermodrHermodr Registered Users Posts: 139
    CaesarSahlertz said:

    It isn't the same battle. It is just a battle that takes place in the same forest.

    I understand that it's not the same battle, but why create an entire new battle in the same place, with the same name, and chronologically close with the more relevant battle that was the battle against Raknik... I mean... it makes no sense... Also, it distorted the cordial relation Franz developed with both Boris and the Ar-Ulric...
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  • HermodrHermodr Registered Users Posts: 139
    MiniaAr said:

    It could have been changed with the Greenskins update, when Raknik Spiderclaw was added as a workshop lord for GS. He is the actual forest goblin who fought Karl Franz in the lore.

    As for his army:
    Raknik on his Araknarok mount
    Goblin Big Boss on Giant Spider
    Regular Goblins Spearmen/Archers
    Spider Riders (both melee and archers)
    A couple of River Trolls.
    A Doomdiver catapult or two
    An Arachnarok Spider or two. Even better if they get the Spider hatchlings summoning ability (same as the one from Grom's Cauldron and the Araknarok RoR).

    It would be a not so easy to fight army (fast, with artillery and big monsters).

    Yes!!! would at least be more interesting than that 2 minute battle....
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  • HermodrHermodr Registered Users Posts: 139
    AxiosXiphos said:

    Honestly I really dislike the majority of quest battles. Once you have done them once or twice you really dont want to do them again.

    True.The most recent one tend to be better though. Drycha's mission to release Coedil is very thematic and more engaging....
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  • Lanky316Lanky316 Registered Users Posts: 27
    Hermodr said:

    CaesarSahlertz said:

    It isn't the same battle. It is just a battle that takes place in the same forest.

    I understand that it's not the same battle, but why create an entire new battle in the same place, with the same name, and chronologically close with the more relevant battle that was the battle against Raknik... I mean... it makes no sense... Also, it distorted the cordial relation Franz developed with both Boris and the Ar-Ulric...
    Early on, and with the way that seems to play it seems that a plan was to offer an Ulrican/Sigmarite civil war element with Franz Vs Boris as an Imperial conflict around everything else going on. While they haven't done so yet perhaps Boris the rival is something they're still looking to explore in the future.
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