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Should AI Cao Cao be able to use Schemes?

Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,306
They are great fun when you play as Cao Cao but they sound like they will be hideous when you fight him. He can insta rout your armies with -20 morale and wreck your commandaries with no repercussions.

I think he should be like Sun Ce and have his mechanic disabled for the AI because it's cheap.

Comments

  • shattishatti Registered Users Posts: 753
    yes
    i don’t like being god in the game,,
    i need some slaps here and there
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  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,818
    He should absolutely be able to use them.
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  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097
    edited March 2021
    Absolutely YES! A good strong AI is where the real funs at! The challenge just sucks you in especially on Legendary difficulty.. Every move you make has to be carefully thought out. One wrong move and you might want to restart the game. Really exciting.
    Post edited by kaihoo on
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Registered Users Posts: 3,063
    No, I want him to be powerful... so that every game, him, Yuan Shao, Liu Bei and Sun Jian/Ce are the main powers to be concerned with. I want to see Liu Bei as lord of the peasants, bring stacks upon stacks of them to flood the earth with sandal makers!
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan Temujin
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    Yes, the AI should be able to use them. If AI Cao Cao can't use schemes then AI Yuan Shao shouldn't use captains too.

  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 4,247
    edited March 2021
    Absolutely the AI should be able to use them.

    I was so delighted to see the AI using them against me, I said "oh, you cheeky b**tard" out loud, knowing I had something of challenge on my hands and I wasn't going to be able to steamroll Cao Cao.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004
    Yea and no . Him using schemes would be good but I really think they should limit which ones he can use prehaps

    Why is sun ces disabled on ai?
  • VandicusVandicus Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 373
    In theory yes, in practice that'd mean they'd have to create more decision-making software to use it, and using it well would be an even bigger task.

    I assume Sun Ce's mechanic is disabled because the AI can't comprehend the need to go after the goals.
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,491
    Given Cao Cao's credibility is not something that can be easily stockpiled I don't see why he shouldn't be able to use schemes.

    As for Sun Ce didn't notice his faction mechanics were disabled for A.I.
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • kuwabatakesanjurokuwabatakesanjuro Registered Users Posts: 17
    In the 200 start campaign, yes absolutely.

    But NOT in the 190 start campaign. They are game breaking if you are playing as a faction in the South or Northwest with no real opportunity to get to Cao Cao and knock him out. The AI will use them on you and only you, again and again. Being hit with the 2x army upkeep is devastating in the early 190 campaign when your economy hasn't been developed yet.

    It feels like the schemes are intended for the 200 campaign (as a counter to Yuan Shao) but I think it was a huge mistake to allow the AI to use them in the 190 campaign.
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    In the 200 start campaign, yes absolutely.

    But NOT in the 190 start campaign. They are game breaking if you are playing as a faction in the South or Northwest with no real opportunity to get to Cao Cao and knock him out. The AI will use them on you and only you, again and again. Being hit with the 2x army upkeep is devastating in the early 190 campaign when your economy hasn't been developed yet.

    It feels like the schemes are intended for the 200 campaign (as a counter to Yuan Shao) but I think it was a huge mistake to allow the AI to use them in the 190 campaign.

    Good point, there might be some balancing issues for Cao Cao here. Does Sun Ce have access to his unique faction mechanic in 200 though?
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004
    kaihoo said:

    In the 200 start campaign, yes absolutely.

    But NOT in the 190 start campaign. They are game breaking if you are playing as a faction in the South or Northwest with no real opportunity to get to Cao Cao and knock him out. The AI will use them on you and only you, again and again. Being hit with the 2x army upkeep is devastating in the early 190 campaign when your economy hasn't been developed yet.

    It feels like the schemes are intended for the 200 campaign (as a counter to Yuan Shao) but I think it was a huge mistake to allow the AI to use them in the 190 campaign.

    Good point, there might be some balancing issues for Cao Cao here. Does Sun Ce have access to his unique faction mechanic in 200 though?
    From my understanding he still uses reckless luck
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097
    edited March 2021


    From my understanding he still uses reckless luck

    Which is fair.

    Each DLC should be building upon the last and all combining to make the base game better. It would be self defeating and pointless if new DLC mechanics to only apply in certain start dates and not others. Or new mechanics don't gel with earlier content and you end up with more bugs....
  • AoishiroAoishiro Registered Users Posts: 143
    It is up to CA to give other factions mechanics and characters to balanced with Cao Cao. Right now he is op because most of the DLC and the starting game favored him.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,306
    i just got spammed by Cao Cao's schemes. Three schemes in two turns. My economy went from thousands a turn to bankrupt. I think people are going to change their minds about this when getting spammed by Cao Cao.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    i just got spammed by Cao Cao's schemes. Three schemes in two turns. My economy went from thousands a turn to bankrupt. I think people are going to change their minds about this when getting spammed by Cao Cao.

    Not everyone hates challenge.
  • kuwabatakesanjurokuwabatakesanjuro Registered Users Posts: 17

    i just got spammed by Cao Cao's schemes. Three schemes in two turns. My economy went from thousands a turn to bankrupt. I think people are going to change their minds about this when getting spammed by Cao Cao.

    Correct. If you're playing a faction in the Northwest or Southwest it's even more annoying since it's extremely difficult for you to get to Cao Cao in order to stop the scheme spam.

    And they don't let up until Cao Cao is defeated because the AI still only thinks to target the player.

    Schemes are great for the 200 start as a counter to Yuan Shao. And if you're not playing as Cao Cao at that start date, you start with a built-up economy and it's not so campaign ruining to be blasted by them. They need to be nerfed for 190, unavailable in 190 until 50 or so turns in, or taken out of 190 entirely.

    This dude who keeps croaking "durr I like challenge durr" doesn't get it: it's not a challenge, it's literally game over. When the scheme spam starts your campaign is done.
  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004

    i just got spammed by Cao Cao's schemes. Three schemes in two turns. My economy went from thousands a turn to bankrupt. I think people are going to change their minds about this when getting spammed by Cao Cao.

    Correct. If you're playing a faction in the Northwest or Southwest it's even more annoying since it's extremely difficult for you to get to Cao Cao in order to stop the scheme spam.

    And they don't let up until Cao Cao is defeated because the AI still only thinks to target the player.

    Schemes are great for the 200 start as a counter to Yuan Shao. And if you're not playing as Cao Cao at that start date, you start with a built-up economy and it's not so campaign ruining to be blasted by them. They need to be nerfed for 190, unavailable in 190 until 50 or so turns in, or taken out of 190 entirely.

    This dude who keeps croaking "durr I like challenge durr" doesn't get it: it's not a challenge, it's literally game over. When the scheme spam starts your campaign is done.
    Or schemes should scale based on Cao caos rank . Since he starts higher rank later on he would use stronger schemes in 194 and 200 with more developed starts than 182 and 190
  • zakufa782zakufa782 Registered Users Posts: 153
    The problem is that you have no way to counter it other than kill off Cao Cao early on, so for players who are not Cao Cao, there isn't any strategy in it, just arbitrary.
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    i just got spammed by Cao Cao's schemes. Three schemes in two turns. My economy went from thousands a turn to bankrupt. I think people are going to change their minds about this when getting spammed by Cao Cao.

    Which is fantastic! I'd embrace a challenge. Steam rolling the AI would be terribly boring and un-immersive.
  • Qin_FengQin_Feng Registered Users Posts: 399
    It's not challenge, it's an automatic **** you button. Imagine doing a good job managing your lands and getting your economy going only for Cao Cao to just wreck it with one button. It's incredibly dumb.
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097

    They are great fun when you play as Cao Cao but they sound like they will be hideous when you fight him. He can insta rout your armies with -20 morale and wreck your commandaries with no repercussions.

    I think he should be like Sun Ce and have his mechanic disabled for the AI because it's cheap.

    mechanic disabled?? then whats the point of introducing those mechanics in the first place?
  • IznoghoulzIznoghoulz Registered Users Posts: 2
    I played Ma Teng start at 190 during the MOH.
    Turn 5 - Cao Cao declares war on me.

    Turn 10 - Cao Cao has hit me with public order and food schemes multiple times over the course of 5 turns and my province has experience 3 consecutive rebellions with a public order of -82 per turn.

    Turn 20 - I've been doing nothing but fighting rebellions every turn, non-stop, and I cannot move to take additional territory because the rebellion attacks the turn after appearing.

    Turn 23 - I broke out of it when Liu Biao offered cooperation, but Cao Cao schemes continued to have an effect for 5 more turns and Han Sui is besieging me. I'm done for lol.

    If Cao Cao ever declares war on you while playing Ma Teng in the start, it's basically game over.
    The moment when you loose an entire unit because one entity of that unit was caught in a fight, forcing the entire unit to commit and die. Gotta love that.
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