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[Poll] - Are you more interested in playing Cathay, Daemons of Chaos or Kislev in the third game?

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  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,962
    Surge_2 said:

    Draxynnic said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Draxynnic said:


    Seriously, Chaos was three armies on the tabletop. It's going to be at least seven in Game 3. Four LLs per god, plus expansions that the three existing races are going to need to bring them up to date... I don't think there's any credible fear that Chaos is getting the short straw. They're getting more than any other group of three races are getting... and that's without going back to 6E and before when they were one race.

    Once they have the content they should have had for years, great.

    Until then, its not enough. Simple as that.
    Sure. But let's say that they're at that point. Monogods have four or five LLs apiece, and just about everything that people could realistically imagine for them has been implemented already.

    Would you, at that point, begrudge Kislev and/or Cathay receiving extra content if GW comes up with the ideas to expand them further? Or would you insist that if either of those get to 3 LPs, all of the monogods should as well because they're all core races?

    Because I'll tell you now, the game 2 core races aren't being treated equally, and a lot of people are calling that a good thing.
    As long as the various factions get 4 before Cathay, or Kislev, or in parallel, no I wouldnt care after that.

    It wont change my view on Cathay, but at least then I'm not watching a figment, be updated before Chaos.
    That's fair - I can respect that.
    maccabbee said:

    Thinking about it, Chaos definitely needs to get the lionshare of content for WH3. The Chaos Gods are GW's most iconic characters, uniting both 40k and Fantasy players as it is the common ground that connects both settings. The Chaos Gods have 3 decades of pop culture importance and shouldn't be relegated to 2nd billing after china.

    And they're probably going to get the lion's share. Monogods can individually get less DLC in the end than Kislev and Cathay, but still have more overall because as a group there's four of them. Hypothetically, for instance, two each for Chaos and three each for Kislev and Cathay still means Chaos is getting more than half... especially if you take into account that there's demand for expansion of the existing factions as well.

    But I think one thing that polls like this show is that the privileged position of Chaos in Games Workshop properties only goes so far. We've had all four gods go up against Kislev and Cathay and only reached about 40% of the tally. Now, as I've said earlier in this thread, a vote that only asks for people's first choices is an overly simplistic tally, but I think it does show that the people who'd want Chaos to be getting somewhere over 70% of the post-launch content (and people have suggested that, not in those precise words, but it's what follows from what they have said) are likely in the minority when the majority of people are more excited for one of the other races than they are about Chaos.

    Like @yukontherun said, there's a point at which all Chaos all the time would be like the demands of those elf strawman accounts. Too much Chaos is going to start wearing at the patience of people who aren't Chaos fans, even if it is technically for different races.
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,636

    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    . However I don't see the justification for them getting as much content as Cathay each if they're 1/3rd as played or less.

    This is where we part, and is exactly what I am worried about.

    A bunch of casuals hurting my chances at finally getting the Chaos updates needed.

    Absolutely disgusting.
    We're still talking about 8 LPs for the 3 Chaos books.... right?

    Even in my scenario it's 5 and that's crossovers from day 1.
    If Cathay gets more than Chaos, it's wrong. Simple as that.
    I'm pretty awful at maths but last I checked 5 is more than 3, so is 8.
    I am just saying, any way you cut it.

    Are we getting 1 Chaos faction? I don't think so.

    So that doesn't mean much.

    Khorne gets as much as Cathay.
    Nurgle gets as much as Cathay.
    Tzeetch gets as much as Cathay.
    Slaanesh gets as much as Cathay.

    That's on CA for using Monos.
    You can't have it both ways. You can't combine them when it's convenient and separate them when it's not. Reality is all 4 are Chaos.

    Yeah, CA messed up by giving us Mono cores, but that doesn't mean the other races can't get treated well.
    Exactly, but 'well' is EQUAL.

    If Mono's are core? Thats 4 LL for every 'core' faction. I dont want to hear anything else but.
    Equality of opportunity, not of outcome.

    Getting 4 core slots is a privilege, even if they are half cores. It doesn't mean other races can't get a good number of LPs.
    Nope, unacceptable.

    I've waited years. Literally years, for Chaos to be given what it should have had since day 1.

    Cathay can get to the **** back of the line.

    Cathay is NOT more important than Khorne, or any other Chaos God.

    Therefore?

    Whatever number Cathay hits, every Chaos faction hits. Anything else is unacceptable.
    And you think how much YOU waited matters? Many, MANY people have waited years, hell even a decade or two, for the East to be expanded. They outnumber you and the years you've waited. They are not biased and know that bringing the setting back from the dead and expanding upon it is the best thing that could happen. THEY deserve the content they want, not you and your s***** bias on not expanding the setting so it can wither and die.
    Dude... everyone is biased. That's how people work. I don't get how "you're biased!" is an insult.... of course they're biased, they're a functional human being.

    Also please stop taking this so seriously. You don't have to be offended because someone else has a different opinion.
    But I have to be offended when, despite being proven time and again that his opinion and arguments are utter s*** he still keeps going.

    "I've waited years. Literally years, for Chaos to be given what it should have had since day 1.

    Cathay can get to the **** back of the line."

    Basically: "This game has been made for me and what I want. Everyone who likes races I hate like Cathay can get the **** out."
    1) How TF can someone see bringing back an old, dead IP and expanding it bad whitout either trolling or having the most ****** bias.
    2) If he hates that much what is given he can leave. People have been dissapointed many times before, becase no Araby, no Albion, no Amazons and the likes, yet for some reason he is dissapointed by the game heving more content. Despite the dissapointment from the exapmples above, people moved on and were content and happy with what they recieved, yet this guy keeps going on and on with his BS.
  • MadDoktaMadDokta Registered Users Posts: 271
    edited April 7
    I'll say that there's a tendency here to lump all the Chaos monogod factions together as one conglomerate (as the poll has. Voted for Cathay BTW), which, if CA are really going to go out and make each monogod faction unique, becomes a little misrepresentative. If they really do make each monogod roster completely its own thing without duplicate units, then they should be seen for all intents and purposes as four different factions. Sure, they might be EVIIIIL/Chaos, but they should be seen as separate. Just as Beastmen aren't seen the same as WoC or Norsca (they're all Chaos followers afterall), or Tomb Kings aren't put in the same category as Vampire Counts or Vampire Coast (they are all Undead), then the monogods should be seen as four distinct, different factions. You don't tell Vampire Counts players to get to the back of the line if the Tomb Kings have just received a LP DLC for example, and you wouldn't restart the clock for Beastmen if for some miraculous reason the next DLC came with Norscan stuff.

    Just my two Daemon-possessed cents.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 6,229

    I am interested in playing each and every one of them. Kislev/Cathay because they are basically fresh out of the oven and chaos because it's fing chaos.




    PS: Nurgle first though, gotta get me some sweet and juicy contagions!


    "Yum Yum"
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,215
    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 27,651

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    Not a single race in TWW3 had an army book.

    And Cathay is coming 2nd :D.
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
  • maccabbeemaccabbee Registered Users Posts: 1,107

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    Not a single race in TWW3 had an army book.

    And Cathay is coming 2nd :D.
    Kislev had an army book in 6th ed. Daemons of Chaos on the other hand were supplements to WoC but were still considered a seperate army in the tabletop.
  • sasori1548sasori1548 Registered Users Posts: 436
    I have no idea why people are fighting over the addition of cathay. We are getting a brand new race that will most likely come with a very fun and modern roster.

    As far as i am concerned WH3 core races are really good. I would have prefered chaos dwarfs and ogre kingdoms at launch i will not lie but i can wait for my boys since mono-gods will enrich the game more than deamons of chaos even though i prefer chaos undivided.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,082


    It's important to remember that people who have been in the hobby most of their lives or early on don't share this idea that mono gods, Cathay, Kislev etc. is anything like a bad thing and should be automatically placed behind everything else.
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 13,785
    maccabbee said:

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    Not a single race in TWW3 had an army book.

    And Cathay is coming 2nd :D.
    Kislev had an army book in 6th ed. Daemons of Chaos on the other hand were supplements to WoC but were still considered a seperate army in the tabletop.
    No they had a list as part of empire book.

    the ones that had army book were chaos dwarf and orger kingdoms and dogs of war
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 13,785

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    It will be by the time GW is done with them. After all they own the IP not any one else and hence its up to them to say what is there and what is not.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,962
    MadDokta said:

    I'll say that there's a tendency here to lump all the Chaos monogod factions together as one conglomerate (as the poll has. Voted for Cathay BTW), which, if CA are really going to go out and make each monogod faction unique, becomes a little misrepresentative. If they really do make each monogod roster completely its own thing without duplicate units, then they should be seen for all intents and purposes as four different factions. Sure, they might be EVIIIIL/Chaos, but they should be seen as separate. Just as Beastmen aren't seen the same as WoC or Norsca (they're all Chaos followers afterall), or Tomb Kings aren't put in the same category as Vampire Counts or Vampire Coast (they are all Undead), then the monogods should be seen as four distinct, different factions. You don't tell Vampire Counts players to get to the back of the line if the Tomb Kings have just received a LP DLC for example, and you wouldn't restart the clock for Beastmen if for some miraculous reason the next DLC came with Norscan stuff.

    Just my two Daemon-possessed cents.

    To your first cent:

    I don't think there'd really be much change in the figures if the poll creator had listed the various monogod races separately. Somebody who is most excited for a monogod would vote daemons in this poll because that's what they're most excited for, even if they're not particularly interested in the other three. Separating them out would give information on just what the breakdown is among them, but I don't think someone who would otherwise have voted Nurgle or Khorne or Tzeentch or Slaanesh is going to vote Kislev or Cathay just because Chaos got lumped together.

    To your second cent:

    I kinda both agree and disagree with you.

    We've actually seen this play out with elves. The last three DLCs have all features elves. If you're a fan of one of those races, it rankles a bit when people say that they're sick of elves - they are, after all, separate elven races, and nobody thinks "oh, it's okay for my race to miss out because this other race that is similar, but still different in fundamental ways that led to me choosing one over the other in the end, got something".

    Particularly since the races being so comparable invites the comparison that steals joy. Why did Dark Elves get a generic lord option while the High Elves didn't? Why did the High Elves get nine lores when Dark Elves didn't even get Metal which they had back in Seventh Edition? Why did Dark Elves get a complete army book apart from one largely redundant generic character, including multiple complex models, while High Elves have several things still missing from their army book and CA seems to be actively avoiding making anything for High Elves that would actually require stretching their animation muscles? Why did the High Elves get several meaningful units from outside their army book while the only thing the Dark Elves received that wasn't straight out of the book was a simple champion upgrade?

    You'll note that the last two were essentially looking at the same thing from "grass is greener on the other side" perspectives. That's the point.

    Conversely, though, the people who are complaining have a point. If you just don't like elves, that's three out of the last three (and four out of six total) where at least half of the DLC has been something you just didn't care about. Shallya's mercy on you if you aren't a fan of elves or ratboys.

    And how has CA responded to this? At present, the Game 2 core races are at two DLCs apiece for everyone but skaven, who have three. Hints are pointing towards lizardmen getting the last one. If that's the case, Game 2 is going to finish with a total of four DLCs for the High and Dark Elves, while the races that are perceived as being more unique get three apiece. That's more than you'd expect if you were to roll the Elves together into one race, but it's certainly not treating the Game 2 core races completely equally either.

    And that's with elves only making up half of the core races, and having only one elven DLC race waiting for an update. Chaos is going to be four out of six core races, and there'll be at least two, probably three, legacy Chaos races that will want an update before the game goes into maintenance mode. Unless the "lord packs should have at least one core race of that game" policy gets thrown out, Chaos is going to dominate Game 3 much more than elves did Game 2 - that's inevitable. It's just a question of by how much.

    On that question, should the game run long enough, I suspect monogods in game 3 will be treated similarly to how elves were treated in game 2. The first wave or two will be split evenly, but at some point, the races that don't share the common theme will pull ahead. Perhaps to compensate for this, monogods will arrive in a more complete state (similar to how the elves were in a better state on release than the skaven and lizardmen).

    At the very least, though, monogods coming in the final game means that they shouldn't end up in the High Elf situation of having a lord pack's worth of content missing and apparently being saved for Game 3, with no realistic prospect of that final lord pack coming for several years.
  • talonntalonn Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 861
    Move on guys.. Cathay Confirmed!
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,215
    saweendra said:

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    It will be by the time GW is done with them. After all they own the IP not any one else and hence its up to them to say what is there and what is not.
    Yeah It is up to them to **** up things because of greed again .

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,921

    Surge_2 said:

    You may not like it, but I do, and that's what matters.

    We are enemy-foes?!?
    Frenemy Brofoes.

    Tis but natural for a -seemingly- rare chaos fan capable of communication to be the foe of a Cathay nut.
    LOL, well I think off the 5 to 10 people I don't want fired into the sun around here you may be my favorite brofrenemyfoe.
    Beastmen

  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,636

    saweendra said:

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    It will be by the time GW is done with them. After all they own the IP not any one else and hence its up to them to say what is there and what is not.
    Yeah It is up to them to **** up things because of greed again .
    I presume you do not understand the concept of ******* up. Google it.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fuck%20up&amp=true&ved=2ahUKEwiO4_Lqu-zvAhW3AhAIHYRQAYMQFjABegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw1o93fB5Q5l4PpWListI0Sm&ampcf=1
    What you call ******* up is the exact opposite of what ******* up is meant to be.
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,636

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    I presume you have no idea of cash grabs. Total War Warhammer is a cash grab. Total War is a cash grab. Every videogame to ever exist is a cash grab. Warhammer, and everything in it, Daemons, the Empire and everything you cansider superior to Cathay is a cash grab because they were made with one intent: to make money.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 13,785

    saweendra said:

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    It will be by the time GW is done with them. After all they own the IP not any one else and hence its up to them to say what is there and what is not.
    Yeah It is up to them to **** up things because of greed again .
    how do you know that ?
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,147
    None of the above.

    I want the Hobgoblin Empire* and Chaos Dwarfs.

    When one of those is in, I'd try Kislev before the other starting factions.


    *While technically a Khaganate, it's usually referred to as Empire for whatever reason.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 5,277
    I will play them all, and this just isn't a cop out of it. Because while we say 'most interest' there is a pretty close point here for most of them to me. I like all four chaos gods, I prefer Tzeench but really? Only a inch so same compared to the others.

    I have interest in both Cathay and Kislev and despite that which is very near. There is no army to intrinsically dislike at front here or find to generic on a purely aesthetic value.

    That said, I haven't seen any units, states, game play, magics, rosters, or map mechanics yet. So, this can actually radically change. If they come out and make Kislev the 'balanced faction' well that's only going to have so much interest. We assume it's Cathay but they could still just end up with it being Kislev as Empire gone Russian Lite. They could accidentally bog down Nurgle with a disease mechanic that is burdensome rather than a bonus. Or of course, Nurgle could have a whole new style of disease mechanic that is actually fun to do with just enough complexity to keep me challenged and that would zip him to the top.

    Don't have enough yet.
  • Man2008kindMan2008kind Bucharest, RomaniaRegistered Users Posts: 1,636
    Nyxilis said:

    We assume it's Cathay

    No, it's the exact opposite. Cathay is supposed to be the race filled with monsters such as monkeymen, horned ogres, dragons and constructs while Kislev is the more grounded race. As far as I'm aware, the only not-grounded aspects Kislev has are the giant bears and Ice magic.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 6,872
    Daemons are very cool and will probably be one of my favourite races, but I like surprises so I'm curious to see how they are going to implement Cathay. That's pretty much a blank slate.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 27,651
    maccabbee said:

    Cathay was not established race in whfb it is normal for people to want races that were to get their due before cash grabs additions like Cathay will

    Not a single race in TWW3 had an army book.

    And Cathay is coming 2nd :D.
    Kislev had an army book in 6th ed. Daemons of Chaos on the other hand were supplements to WoC but were still considered a seperate army in the tabletop.
    Pretty sure that's wrong. Kislev never had an army book. DoC did but DoC aren't a race in game 3.
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,082
    Yeah Kislev was a White Dwarf release in about 2003 as a contingent army.
    Interested in Sea Elves? Did you just call me a simpleton?

  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 12,004
    edited April 7
    Draxynnic said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Draxynnic said:


    Seriously, Chaos was three armies on the tabletop. It's going to be at least seven in Game 3. Four LLs per god, plus expansions that the three existing races are going to need to bring them up to date... I don't think there's any credible fear that Chaos is getting the short straw. They're getting more than any other group of three races are getting... and that's without going back to 6E and before when they were one race.

    Once they have the content they should have had for years, great.

    Until then, its not enough. Simple as that.
    Sure. But let's say that they're at that point. Monogods have four or five LLs apiece, and just about everything that people could realistically imagine for them has been implemented already.

    Would you, at that point, begrudge Kislev and/or Cathay receiving extra content if GW comes up with the ideas to expand them further? Or would you insist that if either of those get to 3 LPs, all of the monogods should as well because they're all core races?

    Because I'll tell you now, the game 2 core races aren't being treated equally, and a lot of people are calling that a good thing.
    Can I ask you, Drax. Would you, however, begrudge CA or GW if they gave Monogods more than they had from TT and other materials? Or pray tell, they gave them more than they give Cathay or Kislev? In this case, what would you say if Monogods were given 2 Lord Packs while Kislev and Cathay keep up at the same pace, rather than getting more? And what would you say if they game them 3 while they give Cathay and Kislev less?

    I mean, they are giving Kislev and Cathay stuff that they probably don't have, which means they are already getting more than they had. If the same applies to Monogods, then they are no longer limited by what we expect or can imagine.

    Also, if you count Elves as the same then shouldn't you count humans the same? So count in Empire, Bretonnia, probably Dogs of War and, gods forbid, Araby coming back from the dead. 5 or 6 human race, 2 or 3 introduced in game 3. Wouldn't that put the humans relatively close to Chaos, which you say is at 7?

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,921
    Crossil said:


    I mean, they are giving Kislev and Cathay stuff that they probably don't have, which means they are already getting more than they had. If the same applies to Monogods, then they are no longer limited by what we expect or can imagine.

    I mean they kind of have to, since you know...Cathay has **** NOTHING. :p
    Beastmen

  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 3,428
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 12,004
    Surge_2 said:

    Crossil said:


    I mean, they are giving Kislev and Cathay stuff that they probably don't have, which means they are already getting more than they had. If the same applies to Monogods, then they are no longer limited by what we expect or can imagine.

    I mean they kind of have to, since you know...Cathay has **** NOTHING. :p
    To be honest, in this case I'm counting on even the Old World. Chances are that the Old World materials probably won't be as expansive as they are in TWW. Now, granted, we don't know the full extent of just how much they'll make but if it's closer to AoS than it was for Fantasy then they're gonna run out of stuff pretty quickly. As in, maybe right on release.

    Now, there's also a possibility that Cathay literally gets nothing from the Old World and this really is its only appearance ever in playable form.... but even if it does, it's hard to imagine they came up with rosters that are the size of other races we have in the game. Some of them bring up stuff from other lists, even. And if they stretch it to lord packs at all, that's going up with the current largest rosters in the game. Which is pretty damn big.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,921
    I'd be shocked if any OW content for Cathay is not a 1 to 1, with TW content for Cathay. GW wouldnt be so stupid as to do the design work twice.
    Beastmen

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 27,651

    MONO GODS!

    Aren't a poll option!
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
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