Grokka Goreaxe and the Savage Orc Problem

TheWattman#7460 · April 2021

The Greenskins are sure to return to the spotlight in WH3, but the sheer variety within this race is raising some serious problems in terms of representation. And one variety of Greenskins in particular may have a very bleak prognosis for the future, with only a very slim chance of getting properly represented independently. Im talking about the Savage Orcs, which is the variety of Greenskins that may just get left behind, as WH3 will likely have a focus on the Black Orcs of Morglum Necksnapper, the various Goblin variants of Snagla Grobspit and Gitilla da Hunter and of course the Hobgoblins.

Now of course, the Savage Orcs already have representation in the game through Wurrzag and 5 units in the general Greenskins roster. But unlike their respective Goblin and Orc brothers, the Savages are currently missing any and all forms of representation in the generic leaders category. There are no Savage Orc Bosses or Shamans, no Bigs, Wars or Greats. Its only Wurrzag, who in himself might have been a missed oppertunity for a Savage Orc DLC back in WH1, representing the Savage cause. This is a big problem, as WH3 will probably focus on the lords and variants mentioned above. Adding to this is the very serious lack of major, or even in general, named Savage characters, as Wurrzag almost singlehandedly embodies this variant-race of Greenskins on his own. And finally, the only character that could be the headliner of a hypothetical Savage update is one that warrants conflict of placement with another variant, the Forest Goblins of Snagla Grobspit.

Im talking about Grokka Goreaxe. Grokka is a Savage Orc from the Drakwald Forest, who after having ingested a whole lot of Bloodfungus, went on such a rampage that several Savage tribes came to worship him as an incarnation of Gork. Even the local goblins have a legend about him. In the End Times, he fought against Gutrot Spume's Nurglite invasion of the northern Empire in the Drakwald. He fought with such a fury that no wound could fell him, which was an inspiration to his fellow Savages. It took a beheading by Eogric the Vile, Gutrot's lieutenant, for Grokka to stop, but not before his headless body killed two more Norscans for good meassure.

Now obviously, since Grokka calls the Drakwald his home, this stands in conflict with the more established Forest Goblins and Snagla Grobspit. Snagla has the upper hand in this conflict, since his lore, not only more extensive than Grokka's, but comes from 8th edition while Grokka is only mentioned in one piece of the Glottkin volume of the End Times. And thus without Wurrzag to fight for a DLC update, the outcome doesn't look favourable for the Savages. Of course, there are possibilities for some small additions together with other-focused Greenskin DLCs, but a full Savage theme seems like only a remote chance.

But hypothetically, what would such a DLC look like? Well, keeping with the general structure of WH1/2 DLCs, this:

------

-----------Savage Orc Great Shaman (Lord)------------Savage Orc Big Boss (Hero)--------

------

------

Savage Orc Stikkas (Anti-Large Spear Infantry) - Big Stabba (Anti-Large "Warmachine")

------

---

------------------Savage Giant (Monster)----------------------Savage Orcs (Shielded)--------------

------

------Grokkamobs (Savage Boar Boyz ROR)---

The selection of units here are intended to offer maximum savagery for the DLC, but there are other alternatives that would fit as well. Like Colossal Squigs, assuming they are not added with Morglum or any of the other Greenskin-updaters. So for example if the Savage Giant is just too close to the already implemented Giant, then throw in the Colossal Squig as a centre-piece alongside the Big Stabba. As for the Lord and Hero selection, its to offer a loreful representation of both legendaries, Shaman for Wurrzag and Big Boss for Grokka, but also nods to the fact that Shamans hold the most important positions in Savage tribes more so than in those of other variants.

What do you think guys? Should the Savage Orcs get a DLC in WH3 or should the focus be on other Greenskin variants?

Sonevco · April 2021

So far VC, Dwarfs and Beastmen have not had a DLC in Warhammer II and chances are that high that one or two of them wont get one.

So there is no certainty that greenskins get a DLC in Warhammer III at all.

I hope we get tons and tons of DLC for Warhammer III so that every faction can be as fleshed out as possible. If Greenskins need two DLC to get there thats fine by me.

Mr_Finley7#4571 · April 2021

I always wanted to see savage orcs expanded into their own faction. This is one thing AoS is getting right, and yet another example proving that GW didn’t need to flush the setting to develop new armies and factions.

Captain_Rex#1635 · April 2021

Wouldn’t say no to a proper Savage Orc LP for the Boyz. But only after Snagla and some Forest Gobbo love.

Beef545 · April 2021

They are nice but I don't thin they deserve DLC spot. Big stabbas can come as part of any LP and savage Lord/Hero as TW acces. That would be enough savage representation in the game.

What greenskins really need is a troll LP. Chief Ugmak as LL and stone trolls stone throwers as a centerpiece unit. Currently troll part of their roster is dramatically unrepresented.

Captain_Rex#1635 · April 2021

Beef545 said:
They are nice but I don't thin they deserve DLC spot. Big stabbas can come as part of any LP and savage Lord/Hero as TW acces. That would be enough savage representation in the game.

What greenskins really need is a troll LP. Chief Ugmak as LL and stone trolls stone throwers as a centerpiece unit. Currently troll part of their roster is dramatically unrepresented.

We had a Troll LP. It’s called W&P.

TheWattman#7460 · April 2021

Sonevco said:
So far VC, Dwarfs and Beastmen have not had a DLC in Warhammer II and chances are that high that one or two of them wont get one.

So there is no certainty that greenskins get a DLC in Warhammer III at all.

I hope we get tons and tons of DLC for Warhammer III so that every faction can be as fleshed out as possible. If Greenskins need two DLC to get there thats fine by me.

The Greenskins would get atleast 2 DLCs in WH3. Morglum Necksnapper and his Black Orcs would be the headliner Orc in the Dark Lands and then either Gitilla da Hunter or Snagla Grobspit.

Beef545 said:
They are nice but I don't thin they deserve DLC spot. Big stabbas can come as part of any LP and savage Lord/Hero as TW acces. That would be enough savage representation in the game.

That's another route to go yes. Morglum's Black Orc Warboss could be accompanied by a Savage Orc Big Boss or Hero Shaman. Big Stabbas too yes in something else.

Beef545 · April 2021

ArneSo said:

Beef545 said:
They are nice but I don't thin they deserve DLC spot. Big stabbas can come as part of any LP and savage Lord/Hero as TW acces. That would be enough savage representation in the game.

What greenskins really need is a troll LP. Chief Ugmak as LL and stone trolls stone throwers as a centerpiece unit. Currently troll part of their roster is dramatically unrepresented.
Nice troll comment.

We had a Troll LP. It’s called W&P.

Yes, but it brought only 2 new troll units.
Chief Ugmak is actually lore friendly, yes he's kinda a lore blurb but still I think he would be a better addition than another grimgor. Monstrous lords are great fun in general, but aren't represented enough in this game.
Same for monstrous ranged infranty- only TK have accrs to it so far, it's a big shame because they are one of the most original and interesting to use units. That's why stone trolls stone throwers are perfect addition. I believe they even had ranged weapon on TT? Of course I'll be satisfied even if we get squig gobba only.

Captain_Rex#1635 · April 2021

Beef545 said:

ArneSo said:

Beef545 said:
They are nice but I don't thin they deserve DLC spot. Big stabbas can come as part of any LP and savage Lord/Hero as TW acces. That would be enough savage representation in the game.

What greenskins really need is a troll LP. Chief Ugmak as LL and stone trolls stone throwers as a centerpiece unit. Currently troll part of their roster is dramatically unrepresented.

We had a Troll LP. It’s called W&P.
Yes, but it brought only 2 new troll units.
Chief Ugmak is actually lore friendly, yes he's kinda a lore blurb but still I think he would be a better addition than another grimgor. Monstrous lords are great fun in general, but aren't represented enough in this game.
Same for monstrous ranged infranty- only TK have accrs to it so far, it's a big shame because they are one of the most original and interesting to use units. That's why stone trolls stone throwers are perfect addition. I believe they even had ranged weapon on TT? Of course I'll be satisfied even if we get squig gobba only.

- LL buffing Trolls
- Troll hero
- 2 Troll Units

75% of the GS side of the LP was troll themed.
.

Sonevco · April 2021

TheWattman said:

The Greenskins would get atleast 2 DLCs in WH3. Morglum Necksnapper and his Black Orcs would be the headliner Orc in the Dark Lands and then either Gitilla da Hunter or Snagla Grobspit.

You seem very confident about something that CA probably has not even decided yet.

TheWattman#7460 · April 2021

Sonevco said:
You seem very confident about something that CA probably has not even decided yet.

A simple matter of missing content, lore rivalries and characters that reside within the general area of the playable map.

Red_Dox#2328 · April 2021

We have alternatives if we just want to pick random lore names, like Grokka Goreaxe. But are those alternatives worth it? i am all for adding the missing variants to the Lord/Hero roster,

and that includes Savgae Orcs, but is a Savage Orc DLC really the way to go?

Most things missed are a wide mix of generic stuff. Spear Chuccka, Colossal Suqig & Squig Gobba would be the obvious choices. Weapon variants for Orcs (like Orcs with spears...) or Black Orcs (Handweapon+Shield). And then we go into the space of more weird stuff like making Big Stabbas a own unit, or Gigantic Spider Rider cav.
For a actual crossover DLC, it would be best to have strong contender. And Redshirt Savage Orc X, does imo not really cut it for the end of the trilogy. I really, really, do not want to have an Ghorst or Alberic around, while Morglum Necksnapper, Gorfang Rotgut or Snagla Grobspit will be ignored.

------Red Dox

Sonevco · April 2021

TheWattman said:

A simple matter of missing content, lore rivalries and characters that reside within the general area of the playable map.

The same argument could be made for tons of content in Warhammer I and II that we never got.

I hope you are right and we get all the content imaginable, but I wouldnt be surprised if greenskins were only represented by an unplayable faction on the Warhammer III map and never got any DLC.

TheWattman#7460 · April 2021

Red_Dox said:

We have alternatives if we just want to pick random lore names, like Grokka Goreaxe. But are those alternatives worth it? i am all for adding the missing variants to the Lord/Hero roster,

and that includes Savgae Orcs, but is a Savage Orc DLC really the way to go?

Most things missed are a wide mix of generic stuff. Spear Chuccka, Colossal Suqig & Squig Gobba would be the obvious choices. Weapon variants for Orcs (like Orcs with spears...) or Black Orcs (Handweapon+Shield). And then we go into the space of more weird stuff like making Big Stabbas a own unit, or Gigantic Spider Rider cav.
For a actual crossover DLC, it would be best to have strong contender. And Redshirt Savage Orc X, does imo not really cut it for the end of the trilogy. I really, really, do not want to have an Ghorst or Alberic around, while Morglum Necksnapper, Gorfang Rotgut or Snagla Grobspit will be ignored.

------Red Dox

That is the question yes. I would never claim Grokka over Morglum or Snagla. And there certainly is room in those for some of the Savages as well. If we can get especially generic Savage lords and heroes in those expansions, I would be quite satisfied.

Theo91#7431 · April 2021

For me we don’t need a savage orc LP... it would certainly be really fun and I would be super keen.

But I think a savage orc generic lord and hero are borderline a necessity. Gobbos and orcs leading savage orcs isn’t right.

I would quite like an elite savage orc ap infantry unit too but maybe that’s wishful thinking

TheWattman#7460 · April 2021

Theo91 said:
For me we don’t need a savage orc LP... it would certainly be really fun and I would be super keen.

But I think a savage orc generic lord and hero are borderline a necessity. Gobbos and orcs leading savage orcs isn’t right.

I would quite like an elite savage orc ap infantry unit too but maybe that’s wishful thinking

Yes, lord and hero are required. Would that be the Warboss & Shaman or Great Shaman & Big Boss combination for you?

Theo91#7431 · April 2021

TheWattman said:

Theo91 said:
For me we don’t need a savage orc LP... it would certainly be really fun and I would be super keen.

But I think a savage orc generic lord and hero are borderline a necessity. Gobbos and orcs leading savage orcs isn’t right.

I would quite like an elite savage orc ap infantry unit too but maybe that’s wishful thinking
Yes, lord and hero are required. Would that be the Warboss & Shaman or Great Shaman & Big Boss combination for you?

I would like a shaman for the lord... basically a mini wurzag

And an ap AL hero. I think that would dovetail nicely with the borc hero. One is a tank and one is a glass cannon.

As a bonus, I would love the savage orc hero to get a wyvern mount just because I feel like I never have enough wyverns in my GS campaigns. But I know that’s not for everyone

Heretical_Cactus#7598 · April 2021

Shard Dragon Mount to **** of the Dwarf Shard Dragon fan

mightygloin#2446 · April 2021

arthadaw said:
Shard Dragon Mount to **** of the Dwarf Shard Dragon fan

Nazjax#2857 · April 2021

I hope a dlc that focus more Black orcs with Morglum for example, but I fear he outclass Grimgor in this point, and Grimgor is definitively the best

But as we have 2 ''goblins'' way of play with Skarsnik and Grom I think we can still have 2.

Draxynnic#3149 · April 2021

I wonder if what we really have here is justification for Snagla to also bring Savage Orc stuff, since we've established that there are Savage Orcs in the Drakwald.

TheWattman#7460 · April 2021

Draxynnic said:
I wonder if what we really have here is justification for Snagla to also bring Savage Orc stuff, since we've established that there are Savage Orcs in the Drakwald.

Honestly that's a good idea as well, if we can agree on that a regular Goblin Boss/Shaman on a Spider mount would be enough to simulate the Forest Goblins in terms of leadership representation. Because we already have the spider riders and most of the Savage infantry. So a combination of giving goblin leaders spider mounts, forest goblin infantry and Savage Orc Shamans/Big Bosses would be a good combination.

peabodyestate#9505 · April 2021

TheWattman said:

Im talking about Grokka Goreaxe. Grokka is a Savage Orc from the Drakwald Forest, who after having ingested a whole lot of Bloodfungus, went on such a rampage that several Savage tribes came to worship him as an incarnation of Gork. Even the local goblins have a legend about him. In the End Times, he fought against Gutrot Spume's Nurglite invasion of the northern Empire in the Drakwald. He fought with such a fury that no wound could fell him, which was an inspiration to his fellow Savages. It took a beheading by Eogric the Vile, Gutrot's lieutenant, for Grokka to stop, but not before his headless body killed two more Norscans for good meassure.

That is just so wicked. I think we need a 'like' as well as an agree. never happy eh ~:D

PoorManatee6197#6481 · April 2021

Savage orcs need a hero and a lord option and I would call them complete. Units are debatable but the next LL should be a forest goblin IMO.

GreenColoured#2445 · April 2021

Really I just need generic Savage Orc Lords to lead Savage Orc armies and I'll be happy.

If we get a GS LP, then Colossal Squigs and Big Stabbas

Cortes31#6909 · April 2021

I gladly take any Savage Orc content I can get.

But an absolute MUST is Savage Orc Great Shaman and it is baffling that we do not already have one.

Maybe this years Skull for the Skull Throne can help.

MODIDDLY1#9212 · April 2021

Greenskins are like 6 subfactions (7 if you count trolls, but trolls to me are more like Firmir for Norsca, they serve the faction but have no place in a leadership role) and it would be cool if you could make themed armies of each subtype similar to how skaven can build clan armies.

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