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A distinct Hobgoblin Khanate Faction?

24

Comments

  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,410
    edited April 2021
    I must admit I would be surprised and a little saddened to see the Hob Goblins get in before Southern Realms - who are sitting on the map right now as a placeholder like Kislev.

    I'd much prefer one of the subfactions for Chorfs was the Khanate - hear me out.

    Drycha Style Sub-faction.

    LL - The Great Khan

    Units - all the hobgoblins from the chorfs faction plus a couple of unique ones (just like saltspite).
    Chaos Dwarfs - Become limited in number as they are just Chorf mercenaries - similar in function to how Drycha is limited to Elves. No high tier Chorfs.
    Orcs: In return they gain access to a few orc units like trolls and giants.

    Mechanics - Lose the Chaos Dwarf slavery stuff (or whatever) and gain the Waaagh mechanics.

    And call it done. That achieves pretty much everything that people want from the race while not needing an entire race pack. This also fits as Chaos Dwarfs really don't need 4 LL... they just don't... and TK, Vampire Coast and now Wood-Elves; we have 3 standard lords and 1 hybrid lord.
  • KlausTheKatKlausTheKat Registered Users Posts: 595
    I'd really like it if they did a couple of "lite" factions bundled together... Hobgobbo's and Amazons for example. They don't need fully fleshed out sprawling rosters, just enough to lorefully fulfil their main unit categories and thats enough. Maybe have some loaned monster units from other factions to give them some punch.
  • hendo’#9614hendo’#9614 Registered Users Posts: 3,000
    edited April 2021
    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    IMO they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    Post edited by hendo’#9614 on
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,410
    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,846

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    Judging by the fact that people support it, the answer seems to be, "Yes, people would really want it to be the Hobgoblins."

  • HeresyHoundHeresyHound Registered Users Posts: 8,285

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    You right, it should go to Undead Legions.

    But seriously though we can't know how much we are getting in Game 3 considering this is supposed to be the capstone to the trilogy and we have no clue how long they are going to have a DLC team for the game. Even your example doesn't really stack up. Game 1 got 2 Race Packs, 2 Campaign Packs, a FLC race and 2 Lord Packs. Game 2 got 0 Race Packs, 2 Campaign Packs, and 7 Lord packs. Game 3 is launching with 9 LLs across 6 races so its not even holding to the base standard of the first two games.

    We may never receive another race after our first 2 campaign packs but I find it not unlikely that we will.
  • Beef545Beef545 Registered Users Posts: 764
    SaintCorn said:

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    Judging by the fact that people support it, the answer seems to be, "Yes, people would really want it to be the Hobgoblins."
    People don't know what they want. Few months ago nobody knew about existence of hobgoblins, now after few threads about them everyone suddenly started demanding them, even at the possible cost of races such as DoW or SE.

    I do think they are likely as preorder- but that's because of how cheap to make they are and only because of that. People need to stop pretending they are interesting race.
    The age of Men is over. The time of the Troll has come.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,771
    I personally don't think they're going to come and a lot of these hobgoblin fans are going to be disappointed, but I've been wrong before.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,846
    Beef545 said:

    SaintCorn said:

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    Judging by the fact that people support it, the answer seems to be, "Yes, people would really want it to be the Hobgoblins."
    People don't know what they want. Few months ago nobody knew about existence of hobgoblins, now after few threads about them everyone suddenly started demanding them, even at the possible cost of races such as DoW or SE.

    I do think they are likely as preorder- but that's because of how cheap to make they are and only because of that. People need to stop pretending they are interesting race.
    People knew about Hobgoblins before a few months ago, so once again, you're wrong.

    Right, and you should stop pretending that Sea Elves are a separate thing from High Elves or even remotely interesting as they are in lore, high elf merchants and nothing more.
    Also, you clearly do not know what you want as well because you clearly support things that you can't fully understand.

    "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones." - some friendly advice as your "logic" or lack thereof can be just as easily turned on you

  • ForumaccountkroqgarForumaccountkroqgar Registered Users Posts: 869

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    Assuming that WH3 follows the mold of game 1 and 2, I expect it to be either a cheap nagash race, a DoW race or hobgoblins.

    I'm hoping for it to be DoW, but I think it will be either nagash with a couple of end times monsters (awful idea IMO but very popular) or hobgoblins, who would only need a couple of unique monsters like norsca has to be added.
    Justice for the scalies!

    Basic fixes for blessed spawnings and geomantic web:
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293369/lizardmen-rework-suggestions/p1?new=1
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    hobgoblins, who would only need a couple of unique monsters like norsca has to be added.

    The difference between Norsca and hobgoblins is that many of norscan units already were in the game as WoC units and there are no hobgoblins.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    hobgoblins, who would only need a couple of unique monsters like norsca has to be added.

    The difference between Norsca and hobgoblins is that many of norscan units already were in the game as WoC units and there are no hobgoblins.
    I would imagine that the Chaos Dwarfs are going to be in the game from day 1, the same way that Bretonnia was in game 1. If that is the case, then there could easily be Hobgoblin units which could be jury rigged to form NPC Hobgoblin factions.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,846
    SerPus said:

    hobgoblins, who would only need a couple of unique monsters like norsca has to be added.

    The difference between Norsca and hobgoblins is that many of norscan units already were in the game as WoC units and there are no hobgoblins.
    That's a fair point, but assuming that the old datamine is accurate. Plus assuming, that the campaign pack DLC arrives shortly after Warhammer 3 is announced with the first campaign pack race being the Chaos Dwarves, then the models would be already developed and created.

    However, this is definitely one of the better arguments against the Hobgoblins.

  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    I would imagine that the Chaos Dwarfs are going to be in the game from day 1, the same way that Bretonnia was in game 1.

    Why would that be the case?
    SaintCorn said:

    then the models would be already developed and created.

    Would they? I doubt that the development of the first campaign pack would be on that stage while they are working on the pre-order DLC. Also it doesn't make much sense to give away part of the DLC that wasn't even released.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    I would imagine that the Chaos Dwarfs are going to be in the game from day 1, the same way that Bretonnia was in game 1.

    Why would that be the case?
    Because, as with Bretonnia, there is no other faction which can easily be used as a placeholder. Where the Empire is a reasonable placeholder for Southeren Realms and Kislev, it couldn't be used for Bretonnia. Likewise with Chaos Dwarfs. Dwarfs, Greenskin and Skaven are all unsuitable placeholders.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,846
    SerPus said:

    I would imagine that the Chaos Dwarfs are going to be in the game from day 1, the same way that Bretonnia was in game 1.

    Why would that be the case?
    SaintCorn said:

    then the models would be already developed and created.

    Would they? I doubt that the development of the first campaign pack would be on that stage while they are working on the pre-order DLC. Also it doesn't make much sense to give away part of the DLC that wasn't even released.
    I can't make a response. We can presume that dev time could be spent beforehand on it, but I can't prove it or disprove it.

    Chaos Dwarf appeal is not the three to five Hobgoblin units, but it's in the Chaos Dwarves and their contraptions themselves. So, having some of them available beforehand wouldn't spoil the DLC's selling points.

  • ForumaccountkroqgarForumaccountkroqgar Registered Users Posts: 869
    SerPus said:

    hobgoblins, who would only need a couple of unique monsters like norsca has to be added.

    The difference between Norsca and hobgoblins is that many of norscan units already were in the game as WoC units and there are no hobgoblins.
    As others have said, I'm working on the assumption that chaos dwarfs will be the first race pack. If chaos dwarfs come as early as tomb kings did, most hobgoblin units should be already there by october-november when the game releases.
    Justice for the scalies!

    Basic fixes for blessed spawnings and geomantic web:
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293369/lizardmen-rework-suggestions/p1?new=1
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    Because, as with Bretonnia, there is no other faction which can easily be used as a placeholder.

    They might simply make Plain of Zharrduk inaccessible, like they did witb Athel Loren and Skavenblight in TWW1, while all the "outer" stronghold will be ruins.
    None of DLC races(except Norsca, for obvious reasons) were included in the game prior to releases of their DLCs.
    SaintCorn said:

    We can presume that dev time could be spent beforehand on it, but I can't prove it or disprove it.

    But do we have any reason to make such assumption other than just trying to create a narrative that makes hobgoblins pre-order look more probable?
    SaintCorn said:

    Chaos Dwarf appeal is not the three to five Hobgoblin units, but it's in the Chaos Dwarves and their contraptions themselves. So, having some of them available beforehand wouldn't spoil the DLC's selling points.

    The the old army book there were five chaos dwarf units(including two warmachines) and five hobgoblin units. With the addition of the Legion of Azgorh that balance shifted even further into Dawi Zharr part of the roster, but hobgoblins are still crucial for the whole concept.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    If chaos dwarfs come as early as tomb kings did, most hobgoblin units should be already there by october-november when the game releases.

    Tomb Kings came out 5 months after the release of Norsca.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,410
    edited April 2021
    I still don't see Hobgoblins as having enough content for a race pack. And assuming they do it will be mostly drawn from other rosters - it would be a very uninspired bonus.

    Norsca at least had several really showstopper units. Mammoths and skin wolves are awesome. What do Hobgoblins have..?

    Nagash I also dont see. I don't see how that lines up with Arkhan - shouldn't he be in that faction? Besides the content available to make that 'race' barely fills a lord pack.

    Aside from Nagash - I dont see what it offers.
  • ForumaccountkroqgarForumaccountkroqgar Registered Users Posts: 869
    SerPus said:

    If chaos dwarfs come as early as tomb kings did, most hobgoblin units should be already there by october-november when the game releases.

    Tomb Kings came out 5 months after the release of Norsca.
    And 4 months after the release of wh2. Wh3 preorder bonus isn't coming to wh2 like norsca did to wh1. 4 months is certainly not enough time to develop the tomb kings nor the chaos dwarfs, they will start working on them before release.
    Justice for the scalies!

    Basic fixes for blessed spawnings and geomantic web:
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293369/lizardmen-rework-suggestions/p1?new=1
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    Because, as with Bretonnia, there is no other faction which can easily be used as a placeholder.

    They might simply make Plain of Zharrduk inaccessible, like they did witb Athel Loren and Skavenblight in TWW1, while all the "outer" stronghold will be ruins.
    None of DLC races(except Norsca, for obvious reasons) were included in the game prior to releases of their DLCs.
    Bretonnia and Norsca was present and not represented by a placeholder. Having the Dark Lands inaccesible is probably not gonna happen, since that would mean a huge chunk of the center of the map would be inaccesible.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    And 4 months after the release of wh2.

    Does that matter? I think it's safe to assume that it was DLC team who were working on the Tomb King DLC. That gives us 5 months between releases. Sure, some work start earliers, but I don't think that they already got fully made units like half a year before release.

    Having the Dark Lands inaccesible is probably not gonna happen

    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:


    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC... And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    Mind you, I am not advocating for Hobgoblins to be playable. I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,410

    SerPus said:


    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC... And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    Mind you, I am not advocating for Hobgoblins to be playable. I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.
    Hobgoblins would make the perfect FLC race to launch after/with the Chaos Dwarfs campaign pack.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC...

    No, it was an FLC.

    And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    WoC was released before Norsca. If hobgoblins are pre-order DLC and Chaos Dwarfs are the first campaign pack then it's the opposite of what happened with Norsca.


    I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.

    And I'm saying that the comparison with Norsca only works if Chaos Dwarfs come out before Hobgoblins.
  • hendo’#9614hendo’#9614 Registered Users Posts: 3,000

    hendo1592 said:

    Beef545 said:

    @ArneSo
    Why spend resources on such an insignificant race though?
    They are likely to appear only because they would be easy to do, basically a reskin of greenskins, don't forget it. Basically norsca v. 2. On their own, they aren't very interesting.

    I'm I they would be interesting, add flavor to avoid any placeholder silliness (this is game 3- CA needs to prevent “permanent placeholder” races- it makes the game feel incomplete).

    The preorder is a race pack. Race packs don't bring many new assets with them and rely heavily on assets accessible to CA. The reasons you hint towards in your comment (minus the not-interesting bit) make them a good candidate for a race pack.

    Imo race packs are meant to add flavor to the map and are meant for this variety of “minor” races.
    We got 1 pre-order and two campaign packs for game 1 & game 2. We may have to face the fact that game 3 will come with the same. As such we are down to our last 3 races.

    Ogres & Chaos Dwarfs are a given and almost certain as campaign packs 1 & 2.

    Which means this pre-order *might* be the last race slot. If that is true - would people really want it to be Hob-goblins?
    Looking at what CA has done in the past is reasonable. However, this is the last game. What I mean is the first two games CA had to focus on puzzling the Warhammer world together and set the foundation using significant races (also while turning to make races’ rosters as complete as possible in game 2).

    TWW3 is where CA can complete the foundation and start adding more flavor. Race packs are good at fleshing out smaller races/factions and imo would improve the production cycle, if CA we're to add them in the mix.

    Yes, I know what CA has done in the past but I think it's fair to say they identify things that might bother us- like getting nothing but lord packs. People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer. Race packs, imo make a good stopgap product that costs the same as lord packs and may gain more positive reactions from us.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the following schedule after tww3 release date (not including immortal empire map and b&g DLC):

    Campaign pack x2
    Lord pack
    Race pack
    Lord pack
    Campaign pack
    Lord pack
    Race pack


    I'm not saying I want exactly above but just an example to visually show what I'm talking about.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    SerPus said:

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC...

    No, it was an FLC.

    And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    WoC was released before Norsca. If hobgoblins are pre-order DLC and Chaos Dwarfs are the first campaign pack then it's the opposite of what happened with Norsca.


    I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.

    And I'm saying that the comparison with Norsca only works if Chaos Dwarfs come out before Hobgoblins.
    FLC is literally DLC... So enough with being pedantic. There were two factions present on the map before they were released as DLC. And that is indisputable fact.... Simple as that..

    And as I said from the beginng, I think Chaos Dwarfs will be present with a limited roster from the start. Hence, why there will be Hobgoblins, hence why the Hobgoblins can even get their own NPC factions if need be.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073

    SerPus said:


    Plain of Zharrduk, not the Dark Lands.
    As for Bretonnia and Norsca, Bretonnia wasn't a DLC and Norsca got their units from WoC.

    Bretonnia was literally a DLC... And Hobgoblins will get their units from Chaos Dwarfs. Just like Norsca from WoC..

    Mind you, I am not advocating for Hobgoblins to be playable. I am saying that what assets will be present in the Chaos Dwarf roster, will easily be enough to make NPC factions similar to how Norsca initially was.
    Hobgoblins would make the perfect FLC race to launch after/with the Chaos Dwarfs campaign pack.
    I would guess that CA could ahve them as a NPC faction, and then gauge people's response, and then decide on whether or not to upgrade them.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 9,569
    hendo1592 said:

    People like them but when the world still feels incomplete, consecutive lord packs are not the answer.

    Lack of lord packs is what makes it incomplete.

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