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Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to fill out the WFB setting

sykallsykall Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 2,260
edited April 30 in Community Content
Hi everyone,

In the past I made a couple of threads about concepts for new warhammer factions, to keep my brain active during the Covid-19 lockdowns. I did this, because the warhammer setting contains so many white spots on its maps. Not places with minor factions, but just blank spots.
E.g. the spine of sotek about which nothing is known, which is why CA had to put dwarfs there, to break up the skaven/lizardmen monotony of Lustria at launch. And Naggaroth still has an empty western region despite CA transferring lords like Khatep, Tretch, Alith Anar or the sisters of twilight there.
Outside of Total War Warhammer the white spots cover much of Lustria, Naggaroth the Southlands and more. This is egregious, as these places were and are in our world home to thousands of prestigious cultures and myriads of myth and folktales, which could easily have served as a template or inspiration for intriguing warhammer factions.
To show the untapped potential of this setting I came up with currently 7 made-up factions meant to enrich the warhammer setting.

These include:

Chon: Harpy-like creatures which were spawned from chaos but embody the concept of order within chaos. Live in the mountains and isles in the west of the New World

Epunt: A faction based on Ethiopia in the southeastern southlands

the Eddu confederacy: A coalition of halflings, elves and an ogre subspecies in central Naggaroth

Desert dwarfs: Remnants of Karak Zorn living south of nehekhara. Inspired by Mali, Nubia and Babylon

Izwan: A persian/palmyrian civilization at the southern darklands meant to bridge the dwarfen realms with the Ogre kingdoms and Ind

Nethun: mammal -based merpeople living in the coastlands of the Western Souhlands and the black gulf

Tanites: lovecraftian deep sea dwellers living in the underworld sea below naggaroth

All these factions are stand-alone creations, meant to enrich the setting by themselves. So there is no cross-referencing between them or previous knowledge of other factions needed to understand them. However they are modelled to not exclude each other.

I decided to gather all these concepts into one document, which is free for everyone to download.
All these factions are not to be taken serious, but are just-for-fun additions. A short read for everyone, who has some time to pass e.g. And everyone is free to do with these concepts what ever they whish to do. Share them, expand upon them, maybe even make a mod out of them, or do something better entirely. Whatever is best in your heart. Warhammer is meant to encourage creativity after all.

As such I hope you may enjoy the products of my lock-down affected brain, and at least use them to pass some time.
Sincerely,
Sykall
Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
Post edited by sykall on

Comments

  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 4,648
    will read them all!


  • MalalforthewinMalalforthewin Registered Users Posts: 450
    Your ideas are very entertaining; might I steal some of them for other purposes (RPG campaigns)?
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,412
    Vaguely Greek sea mammals but no Telkhines. One day someone besides me will remember the sea doggos of myth.

    Nice writeup though
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 1,017
    Akchualy... Races. Not factions.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 8,571
    For some reason I got major Dominions flashbacks...
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,412
    Amonkhet said:

    For some reason I got major Dominions flashbacks...

    Lol Early Age Agatha and C'tis let's go!
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260

    Your ideas are very entertaining; might I steal some of them for other purposes (RPG campaigns)?

    Be my guest. Things like these are my main intention behind the concepts. So if you truly incorperate them into somehting, I would feel honoured. :)

    @FungusHound Actually the Forca (part of the Nethun) are based heavily on Telchnides. They are meant to be seal-human hybrids skilled in craftmannship etc. I just renamed them into forca. Foca is the italian word for seal and many nethun fight with tridents, aka forks. You may hit me for that pun, but Telchnides are included :p
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260
    Loreguy said:

    Akchualy... Races. Not factions.

    In modern biology a species is most commonly defined as all indivuals who can interbreed with each other and generate completly fertile offpsring.
    A subspecies is defined as a subpopulation of the main population with exclusive characteristics, that is still able to interbreed with the main population.
    And lastly a race, at least according to science, is an artifical subspecies created through human domestication. And as a biolgist myself this is the only real context in which to use this term.

    I am aware that race is still used in many fictional genres, from scifi to fantasy, to describe multiple different things. From other nations to other cultures to different species entirley. The latter part is especially bad, but sadly done way too often.
    But I just cannot bring myself to use this term race in this way. For me it has a fixed definition. It is like calling a whale a fish, when it was, is and stays a mammal.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • HedonistHoundHedonistHound Registered Users Posts: 7,412
    sykall said:

    Your ideas are very entertaining; might I steal some of them for other purposes (RPG campaigns)?

    Be my guest. Things like these are my main intention behind the concepts. So if you truly incorperate them into somehting, I would feel honoured. :)

    @FungusHound Actually the Forca (part of the Nethun) are based heavily on Telchnides. They are meant to be seal-human hybrids skilled in craftmannship etc. I just renamed them into forca. Foca is the italian word for seal and many nethun fight with tridents, aka forks. You may hit me for that pun, but Telchnides are included :p
    Curse my lack of Italian and inability to pick up on that. You get agrees for everything now on just cause you are a man of culture. Or seal of culture. Or whatever species.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260

    sykall said:

    Your ideas are very entertaining; might I steal some of them for other purposes (RPG campaigns)?

    Be my guest. Things like these are my main intention behind the concepts. So if you truly incorperate them into somehting, I would feel honoured. :)

    @FungusHound Actually the Forca (part of the Nethun) are based heavily on Telchnides. They are meant to be seal-human hybrids skilled in craftmannship etc. I just renamed them into forca. Foca is the italian word for seal and many nethun fight with tridents, aka forks. You may hit me for that pun, but Telchnides are included :p
    Curse my lack of Italian and inability to pick up on that. You get agrees for everything now on just cause you are a man of culture. Or seal of culture. Or whatever species.
    I have never been called a seal of culture before. But it is a very intreuging compliment. Thank you :D
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • ForumaccountkroqgarForumaccountkroqgar Registered Users Posts: 869
    sykall said:

    Loreguy said:

    Akchualy... Races. Not factions.

    In modern biology a species is most commonly defined as all indivuals who can interbreed with each other and generate completly fertile offpsring.
    A subspecies is defined as a subpopulation of the main population with exclusive characteristics, that is still able to interbreed with the main population.
    And lastly a race, at least according to science, is an artifical subspecies created through human domestication. And as a biolgist myself this is the only real context in which to use this term.

    I am aware that race is still used in many fictional genres, from scifi to fantasy, to describe multiple different things. From other nations to other cultures to different species entirley. The latter part is especially bad, but sadly done way too often.
    But I just cannot bring myself to use this term race in this way. For me it has a fixed definition. It is like calling a whale a fish, when it was, is and stays a mammal.
    Is it though? https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/
    Justice for the scalies!

    Basic fixes for blessed spawnings and geomantic web:
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/293369/lizardmen-rework-suggestions/p1?new=1
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260

    sykall said:

    Loreguy said:

    Akchualy... Races. Not factions.

    In modern biology a species is most commonly defined as all indivuals who can interbreed with each other and generate completly fertile offpsring.
    A subspecies is defined as a subpopulation of the main population with exclusive characteristics, that is still able to interbreed with the main population.
    And lastly a race, at least according to science, is an artifical subspecies created through human domestication. And as a biolgist myself this is the only real context in which to use this term.

    I am aware that race is still used in many fictional genres, from scifi to fantasy, to describe multiple different things. From other nations to other cultures to different species entirley. The latter part is especially bad, but sadly done way too often.
    But I just cannot bring myself to use this term race in this way. For me it has a fixed definition. It is like calling a whale a fish, when it was, is and stays a mammal.
    Is it though? https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/
    Yes it is. Of course you could argue that a coconut is a mammal, because it has hair and contains milk. But that is a falsyfing argument, as you overgeneralize points and exclude non-fitting ones. Aka you arrange the facts around your thesis not the other way around.

    However whales contain organs, tissues and bones exclusive to mammals. Even in king solomons times you could have proven this without ever mentioning genes or evolution or anything else. Just by cutting of a whale and comparing its body with the one of a fish an another mammal, e.g. a sheep or even a human. It may have a similar shape as a fish, but the entire rest is that of landwelling mammal. Something you cannot argue away by translational differences and local beliefs.
    So King Solomon, in all his wisdom, must have seen, that his previous defnitions were imperfect. And thus he must redefine the defintions or recategorize some words if he wants his language to represent the world as best as possible.
    Otherwise you structure your facts based on your preexisting thesis and not the other way around. And that would be unwise to do.
    E.g. Plato ones categozied humans in the most simple terms he could come up with: a featherless biped. Diogenes got angry about this and gave him a fethearless chick.
    Plato recognized how imperfect his previous description was and changed it: a featherless biped with flat nails. Still silly from our perspective, but a step into the right direction. He changed his language and definitions based on the facts presented to him.

    Anyway this is off-topic.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • KroozaNobKroozaNob Registered Users Posts: 199
    sykall said:

    Loreguy said:

    Akchualy... Races. Not factions.

    In modern biology a species is most commonly defined as all indivuals who can interbreed with each other and generate completly fertile offpsring.
    A subspecies is defined as a subpopulation of the main population with exclusive characteristics, that is still able to interbreed with the main population.
    And lastly a race, at least according to science, is an artifical subspecies created through human domestication. And as a biolgist myself this is the only real context in which to use this term.

    I am aware that race is still used in many fictional genres, from scifi to fantasy, to describe multiple different things. From other nations to other cultures to different species entirley. The latter part is especially bad, but sadly done way too often.
    But I just cannot bring myself to use this term race in this way. For me it has a fixed definition. It is like calling a whale a fish, when it was, is and stays a mammal.
    I don't know the deal about this random invented factions, but I am intrigued by your vision of race.

    Checking online, it seems to me that race perfectly fits the bill.

    They all are umanoid, yet they don't share any genetic similarities.

    Humans are not like greenskins, dwarfs are not like elves, heck, vampires are not like tomb kings.

    I'll still stick by race then.

    At best that notion of yours fits the elven subfactions and even then I'd say Asrai have been manipulated enough by arcane energies to be considered their own race.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260
    edited April 28
    KroozaNob said:

    sykall said:

    Loreguy said:

    Akchualy... Races. Not factions.

    In modern biology a species is most commonly defined as all indivuals who can interbreed with each other and generate completly fertile offpsring.
    A subspecies is defined as a subpopulation of the main population with exclusive characteristics, that is still able to interbreed with the main population.
    And lastly a race, at least according to science, is an artifical subspecies created through human domestication. And as a biolgist myself this is the only real context in which to use this term.

    I am aware that race is still used in many fictional genres, from scifi to fantasy, to describe multiple different things. From other nations to other cultures to different species entirley. The latter part is especially bad, but sadly done way too often.
    But I just cannot bring myself to use this term race in this way. For me it has a fixed definition. It is like calling a whale a fish, when it was, is and stays a mammal.
    I don't know the deal about this random invented factions, but I am intrigued by your vision of race.

    Checking online, it seems to me that race perfectly fits the bill.

    They all are umanoid, yet they don't share any genetic similarities.

    Humans are not like greenskins, dwarfs are not like elves, heck, vampires are not like tomb kings.

    I'll still stick by race then.

    At best that notion of yours fits the elven subfactions and even then I'd say Asrai have been manipulated enough by arcane energies to be considered their own race.
    The physical appearance is a bad way to charaterize species and races. Thanks to things like sexual dimorphism the sexes of a species can look very different, whereas non-related individuals can look almost identical to one sex e.g..
    That is why species are categorized by the ability to produce fertile offspring. Horses and donkeys can procreate too, but these are in almost all cases infertile. And I guess few people would call donkey a race of horse. Alsl, fish and whales both have the same general shape. Would you call a whale a different race of fish, despite all the other differences between them?

    Using warhammer as an easy example; take greenskins. They are fungi in a humanoid shape. Would you say that a talking mushroom is just a different race? Or treemen and dryads who too if they have a hunanoid shape? What about bears and non-human primates who also have a humanoid shape? And I would guess some bears and primates are even smarter than some greenskins. And as proper mammals they have more in common with humans than orcs. So clearly they must be races, right?
    Do you see that the term race is insufficent to acommidate for all the differences between these vastly different creatures?

    So you need a clearcut definition to put together all individuals of one group. How can you best define this group in concrete and easy to measure terms? For this the definitions of species and subspecies where created. And race, which was previously primarily used for animal breeds, was kept to differentiate between natural and man-made subspecies.

    Orcs are a different species from humans as they procreate with spores. No successful crossbreeding is possible.
    Elves are too incapable to produce fertile offspring with humans. No report of a half elf exist in warhammer. So elves are too a different species.
    And beastmen can be considered a subspecies of humans, as they can still procreate with humans, despite looking very different. Because they can still create fertile offspring together.
    Races need the process of domestication, which did not happen with the beastmen, far from it.
    Similarly if chaos dwarfs could produce offspring with normal dwarfs their exclusive features, like tusks or the chance to give birth to bullgors, would make them a subspecies of dwarfs. But no dawi would be willing to participate in this, so we will never know.

    This is the biological definition at least. Sadly race as a social construct is still a real thing, even if their is no biological basis for this. But that is a different topic entirely.
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Gojira56Gojira56 Registered Users Posts: 13
    edited May 10
    You have some good ideas here I love the cho, the confederation is interesting, and it's nice to see the Southlands filled out. Couple of problems off the top of my head. South of the darklands should be a toxic hellscape no human nation could realistically hope to survive in. Even if the chaos dwarfs let them there are many orc warbands, the land is full of toxins making farming difficult, and there are the aforementioned chaos dwarfs who would view them as easy slaves, or if they resisted a threat to be annihilated before they could retaliate(aka orc waagh that nearly destroyed them). A couple of nomadic bands could probably survive but not a full-blown nation(not one that could realistically stop the chorfs anyway). If you really want to add a faction there I'd add a semi-horde faction with a few minor cities; that based on the band escorts or robs traders passing through their turf on their way to the settled nations of the east or west. Using the fee or goods they gather from this to buy whatever supplies they need from outsiders. Likewise iron is objectively a better weapon for forging swords, and armor than bronze. It is lighter, harder, can be shaped into longer and thicker blades, and retains an edge better. This is especially important with swords. when objects collide the weakest give out first. There are a number of videos of iron weapons cutting into bronze equivalents. It may not matter when their main enemies are beastmen who have no culture of craftsmanship and use whatever they can salvage or the undead who let their equipment rust, but against anyone else bronze vs iron can be the difference between life and death when a bronze weapon hits iron armor is will leave a small scratch, and rapidly dull. When an iron sword hits a bronze cuirass it will leave a deeper mark, or may even penetrate (19:30 to see direct blade comparison). This is worse in Warhammer where people like the lizardmen, elves, and dwarfs use even better materials. So unless iron is prohibitively expensive Epunt would switch soon after learning how to refine iron ore.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260
    edited May 11
    Gojira56 said:

    You have some good ideas here I love the cho, the confederation is interesting, and it's nice to see the Southlands filled out. Couple of problems off the top of my head. South of the darklands should be a toxic hellscape no human nation could realistically hope to survive in. Even if the chaos dwarfs let them there are many orc warbands, the land is full of toxins making farming difficult, and there are the aforementioned chaos dwarfs who would view them as easy slaves, or if they resisted a threat to be annihilated before they could retaliate(aka orc waagh that nearly destroyed them). A couple of nomadic bands could probably survive but not a full-blown nation(not one that could realistically stop the chorfs anyway). If you really want to add a faction there I'd add a semi-horde faction with a few minor cities; that based on the band escorts or robs traders passing through their turf on their way to the settled nations of the east or west. Using the fee or goods they gather from this to buy whatever supplies they need from outsiders. Likewise iron is objectively a better weapon for forging swords, and armor than bronze. It is lighter, harder, can be shaped into longer and thicker blades, and retains an edge better. This is especially important with swords. when objects collide the weakest give out first. There are a number of videos of iron weapons cutting into bronze equivalents. It may not matter when their main enemies are beastmen who have no culture of craftsmanship and use whatever they can salvage or the undead who let their equipment rust, but against anyone else bronze vs iron can be the difference between life and death when a bronze weapon hits iron armor is will leave a small scratch, and rapidly dull. When an iron sword hits a bronze cuirass it will leave a deeper mark, or may even penetrate (19:30 to see direct blade comparison). This is worse in Warhammer where people like the lizardmen, elves, and dwarfs use even better materials. So unless iron is prohibitively expensive Epunt would switch soon after learning how to refine iron ore.

    Thanks for your remarks. And thanks for liking the chon and eddu.

    About your points I would like to add:

    That Iron is in general a better choice for weapon and armour, that I am aware off. However bronze still offers a lot of utility iron does not, especially when trying to mass produce weapons by the hundreths or so. If the supply is equal, it is far easier to outfitt a large army with standardizied bronze weapons than with iron weapons, due to bronze being far easier to work with.
    Also Epunts bronze weaponery was not meant to be equal to iron weapons by any means, but rather shall further show their isolation. Because they had no neighbours outside of elves, which they hated and ignored, savage orcs and other uncivilized cultures. In a sense they were a bronze age culture sourrunded by stone age cultures, and a couple of elven colonies. And their disciplined forces and beasts of war helped overcoming the weaker nature of bronze where it was an important factor. But through longlasting contact they see the superiority of iron off course. Hence why the epuntian mercenary company was very, very quick with changing their bronze weapons for iron, when they left epunt.
    Though given that some lizardmen use stone armour according to the lore, warhammer does not take itself seriously in this regard. :smiley: And especially the lizardmen are famous for effectivly using stone clubs and bronze halberds most of the time. At least their common foot soldiers do, as the good stuff is to rare to hand it out to non-characters. Even temple guards use stone and bronze weapons IIRC.

    And IIRC the toxic sludge of the darklands should exist primarily around the chaos dwarfs realm and along the great river ruin, as they are the main source of the pollution. Something I included into my scenario, as I desribe the river ruin as a toxic and lifleless sludge, with most Izwani cities being build in a distance to it.
    After all the darklands are a huge area and the domain of the dawi-zharr is mostly their one capital plus a couple of fortresses. So areas far off the chaos dwarfs realm should be mostly unaffected. Off course it is still a hot and dry land, but contains habitable spots as well.

    Of course the mass of greenskins is still a problem, which is why Izwan evolved their skirmishing style of warfare in the first place. Orcs want to have a good fight. But if you deny this to them by harrassing them at every oppurtunity, and present thick walls which they need to siege, whilst being harrassed, they get quickly annoyed.
    Also the creation of human realms in greenskin infested area happened quite a lot in the WFB setting.
    And the chaos dwarfs are not unstoppable by any means, but have many weakness. From how unruly most of their slave soldiers are, to how low their overall numbers are, to how slow their main army is, that most of their artillery is devastating but slow to fire etc. Pp.
    So I think it is not impossible for a human nation to ressist them, especially if it is too tiresome from the dawi zharrs perspective to crush it, and they may benefit from additional slaves merchants. And if I remember correctly an empire army successfully pushed back and chaos dwarf force.
    And again the izwani style of warfare is a good counter to the dawi zharrs slow and cumbersome armies. So of the Izwani engage the dawi zharr early enough they have good chances to push them back, even if they cannot harm their heartlands.
    Post edited by sykall on
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Gojira56Gojira56 Registered Users Posts: 13
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ol7Hz2pb2XMgo8tjKy1XFj1_3bIf737r/view?usp=sharing

    A huge thanks to Skyall for the initial faction he has demonstrated far more creativity than me. That said there were a few things I didn't like about the roster so I made some changes, for example, I removed the were-men since Epunts main enemy is beastmen and a beastman with fur and claws is still part beast and thus suspect at best. check it out let me know what you think.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260
    I think these are some very nice additions to the list. Well done. Especially the other african folklore creatures, even if I am not that familiar with some of the folklore creatures you describe, like the Kongmato.

    Though personally I am a bit divided about artillery pulled by Ducurnos. I can see it work well for the lowland tribes, but less so for the mountain cities due to the rougher terrain. So stationary artillery is something I would personally prefer. Maybe the slides of Kislevs are also impacting me a bit there too. But from a neutral perspective artillery on chariots would work well for the faction.

    And I can see why you do not like the were-hyenas or were-lions, when one of their main enemies is the beastmen. But again everyone has different preferences. And as Ind potentially has non-chaos beastmen too, this unit may make Ind a touch to close to Ind.
    I had similar feelings at first. However as I chose to style the faction closely after Ethiopian and eastern african folklore, where were-beasts are a major thing, I decided to include them still. Especially as some WE also have beastmen as their main enemy, but a certain King in the Woods has himself some bestial traits :smiley:
    But again your additions make more than up for their exclusion in my opinion,

    Anyway it is nice to see you engaging so closely with my work. I am very glad that you enjoy it. And thanks a lot for for your contributions :smile:
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting
  • Gojira56Gojira56 Registered Users Posts: 13
    I was in the process of fleshing out my next faction (I've got two in the works). While I was working on the third I realized it came too close to Skyalls Chon. So since I have no desire to rip off someone else's work, but I did have a few unique ideas I decided to add them to the Chon before I abandoned the faction.
  • sykallsykall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,260
    The units you added look nice. But do not worry about ripping off someones elses work. As I said in the beginning everyone is free to do with my designs however s/he pleases. If you wanted to you could take the chon as they are and remodel them to you liking e.g. My ideas are just rudementary pitches to be expanded upon by others, if they whish.
    Also if you look at WFB many things were more or less ripped off of other fantasy, history etc works :wink:
    Filling the white spots - 7 made-up factions to enrich the empty parts of the WFB setting
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288418/filling-the-white-spots-7-made-up-factions-to-fill-out-the-wfb-setting

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