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TWW3 and DOW3

endikuxendikux Registered Users Posts: 630
Dawn of War 3 went the MOBA route and completely failed.

So why is Total War Warhammer 3 deciding to showcase a MOBA-type "survival" battle as their only footage?

Is CA going the same route that DOW3 did? And trying to gain access to the "MOBA market" by making the game "more accessible"?

Because, I think every Total War Warhammer 1 & 2 fan is hoping game 3 is just more of the same, with improvements. Not a different game entirely.

Hopefully I'm wrong about my misgivings but I am getting a fairly bad vibe by this footage and the evasive answers from the devs.
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Comments

  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 4,765
    endikux said:

    MOBA-type "survival" battle

    How is it MOBA?
  • Prince_AlucardPrince_Alucard Registered Users Posts: 468
    It's a very specific, situational type of battle. The whole game isn't like this. lol I'm surprised how many people are actually confused about this, maybe CA shouldn't have revealed it first. Especially since it seems pretty end game.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,968

    It's a very specific, situational type of battle. The whole game isn't like this. lol I'm surprised how many people are actually confused about this, maybe CA shouldn't have revealed it first. Especially since it seems pretty end game.

    Better they showcase the classic battle first which everyone will surely play
  • TheChocolateJesusTheChocolateJesus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,434

    Seriously, what the heck do you people have in your heads to see this as a MOBA?

    Building structures have been a thing since forever in Total War that has been brought back, reinforments arriving later in the battle are literally a thing in almost every Quest Battle and something from the TT, waves of enemies are a thing in every single Quest Battle since game 1, this is just a Quest Battle type thing, like the Errant War final battle for Bretonnia.

    And this is just 1 game mode, 1, the game will still play the same as always, only that now you 1 more way to play it.

    I swear I'm loosing brain cells every time I see someone saying that this looks like a MOBA.

    100% agreed. I genuinely can't believe people are this freaking dense..
    It's gotta be a Chocolate Jesus to keep me satisfied.
  • 1v01v0 Registered Users Posts: 499
    It's not moba but it really gamey, I think this will be like the vortex - you play it a few times then start playing only ME. :D

    I don't like it ... good ideas and my hope is that parts of it goes in normal battles / settlement battles / sieges.
    But the waiting for pay points, the heal/stamina/ the recruiting is just bad for me...
    Thou I do like the building and the shrines(buffs).
  • Prince_AlucardPrince_Alucard Registered Users Posts: 468
    edited May 14
    Neodeinos said:

    It's a very specific, situational type of battle. The whole game isn't like this. lol I'm surprised how many people are actually confused about this, maybe CA shouldn't have revealed it first. Especially since it seems pretty end game.

    CA even had to make a statement that this type of battle will be rare and won't replace the standard battles.
    Yeah, I just find it weird. lol It's not an overhaul to the game at all. It's like very clearly one specific battle type that happens very rarely. Or a co op side mode. You'll probably be able to easily ignore them once they come out, or at least once Immortal Empires comes out. I rarely ever follow the vortex quests for instance.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,070
    Neodeinos said:

    It's a very specific, situational type of battle. The whole game isn't like this. lol I'm surprised how many people are actually confused about this, maybe CA shouldn't have revealed it first. Especially since it seems pretty end game.

    CA even had to make a statement that this type of battle will be rare and won't replace the standard battles.
    Anyone with more than 2 living brain cells would have reached that conclusion to be honest, it speaks volumes to how much people thinks things before speaking...
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 12,727
    edited May 14

    Neodeinos said:

    It's a very specific, situational type of battle. The whole game isn't like this. lol I'm surprised how many people are actually confused about this, maybe CA shouldn't have revealed it first. Especially since it seems pretty end game.

    CA even had to make a statement that this type of battle will be rare and won't replace the standard battles.
    Anyone with more than 2 living brain cells would have reached that conclusion to be honest, it speaks volumes to how much people thinks things before speaking...
    didn't the first dlc of 3k have such a mechanic? but it didn't replace every thing
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,653
    I think it speaks to a few things.

    1. The distrust present in the user base towards CA.
    2. The desire for this game to be great.
    3. The desire for the game to NOT subvert expectations, and simply deliver.
    Beastmen

  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,070
    saweendra said:

    Neodeinos said:

    It's a very specific, situational type of battle. The whole game isn't like this. lol I'm surprised how many people are actually confused about this, maybe CA shouldn't have revealed it first. Especially since it seems pretty end game.

    CA even had to make a statement that this type of battle will be rare and won't replace the standard battles.
    Anyone with more than 2 living brain cells would have reached that conclusion to be honest, it speaks volumes to how much people thinks things before speaking...
    didn't the first dlc of 3k have such a mechanic? but it didn't replace every thing
    I cannot say because I didn't paid attention to 3K at that time, paladin boy, but people have to be crazy to think that every battle will now look like this, this is clearly a quest battle, we have Katarin making a speech and all FFS.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,450
    Come on now. Let's not insult people.

    Try to keep in mind though that we have only seen 1 quest battle.
    It's kinda hard to say that it is going DOW 3 after only 1 quest battle.

    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,070
    edited May 14
    Surge_2 said:

    I think it speaks to a few things.

    1. The distrust present in the user base towards CA.
    2. The desire for this game to be great.
    3. The desire for the game to NOT subvert expectations, and simply deliver.

    I think it just speaks more about the amount time people thinks before writing something, there is distrust, and then there is jumping the gun at the minimum and calling doom like this is the ET.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 4,938
    See, I owned DoW 3, played it, was sad about it. This is not remotely DoW3 and drawing that comparison is pretty dumb.

    If people think the only issue with it was a moba like structure then you're freaking bonkers. It's issues were legion on top of that. Let alone the gameplay within that was incredibly lacking or more centered with singular heros that did a lot of the heft. Story that made the armies largely irrelevant.

    People are making a mountain not even a molehill but out of just complete nonsense. It was still the large army, the hero was not doing 95% of everything, the army was not irrelevant, and what people really seem to forget objectives like that were in the old Total War games and what people on Reddit and this forum have asked to return. Nor is this a replacer for the main battles but a quest battle that is more than just oh hey random army pops up behind me instead of in front of me.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,653

    Surge_2 said:

    I think it speaks to a few things.

    1. The distrust present in the user base towards CA.
    2. The desire for this game to be great.
    3. The desire for the game to NOT subvert expectations, and simply deliver.

    I think it just speaks more about the amount time people thinks before writing something, there is distrust, and then there is jumping the gun at the minimum and calling doom like this is the ET.
    /shrug

    When more than 1 person points out some DoW3 vibes, thats not generally a positive.

    Honestly I dont care anymore. I want the basic Khorne Units, and I hope for Belakor to allow for the proper Daemons Army.

    My expectations are lower by the day at this point.
    Beastmen

  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 3,070
    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    I think it speaks to a few things.

    1. The distrust present in the user base towards CA.
    2. The desire for this game to be great.
    3. The desire for the game to NOT subvert expectations, and simply deliver.

    I think it just speaks more about the amount time people thinks before writing something, there is distrust, and then there is jumping the gun at the minimum and calling doom like this is the ET.
    /shrug

    When more than 1 person points out some DoW3 vibes, thats not generally a positive.

    Honestly I dont care anymore. I want the basic Khorne Units, and I hope for Belakor to allow for the proper Daemons Army.

    My expectations are lower by the day at this point.
    DoW3 failed because it tried to be what it wasn't, this is literally a single game mode for a specific type of battles, not comparable at all, the game is not going to be all like this in any way.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,653

    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    I think it speaks to a few things.

    1. The distrust present in the user base towards CA.
    2. The desire for this game to be great.
    3. The desire for the game to NOT subvert expectations, and simply deliver.

    I think it just speaks more about the amount time people thinks before writing something, there is distrust, and then there is jumping the gun at the minimum and calling doom like this is the ET.
    /shrug

    When more than 1 person points out some DoW3 vibes, thats not generally a positive.

    Honestly I dont care anymore. I want the basic Khorne Units, and I hope for Belakor to allow for the proper Daemons Army.

    My expectations are lower by the day at this point.
    DoW3 failed because it tried to be what it wasn't, this is literally a single game mode for a specific type of battles, not comparable at all, the game is not going to be all like this in any way.
    Probably correct. But people who are complaining about the complainers, dont care to look at the motivation of the reaction, only 'its not the full game DUH', when obviously thats the case.
    Beastmen

  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,016
    Man it looks fun to me...
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 4,765

    DoW3 failed because it tried to be what it wasn't

    DoW3 failed because developers had no idea what to do with it once it was released.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,229
    SerPus said:

    DoW3 failed because it tried to be what it wasn't

    DoW3 failed because developers had no idea what to do with it once it was released.


    NO it failed because it became a normie game without challenges thats why nobody cared for it.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 5,653
    One of my other forums had one of the devs on it. The immediate response to the game was not what they expected, at all.

    Meet expectations, at least, or get roasted.
    Beastmen

  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 4,765

    NO it failed because it became a normie game without challenges thats why nobody cared for it.

    DoW community had weekly tournaments for DoW3 since beta. The only reason why any activity around the game died off is because Relic couldn't support the game. The balance was even worse than in DoW2 and every single attempt to fix it only made things more broken.
  • makar55makar55 Registered Users Posts: 2,565
    SerPus said:

    NO it failed because it became a normie game without challenges thats why nobody cared for it.

    DoW community had weekly tournaments for DoW3 since beta. The only reason why any activity around the game died off is because Relic couldn't support the game. The balance was even worse than in DoW2 and every single attempt to fix it only made things more broken.
    And now these people are developing Age of Empire 4 :'(
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 4,618
    If TW:Warhammer were to become a MOBA, it would have happened during the development time of the first game. They can't radically change the formula for the second and third game in the trilogies. In a way, MOBA elements did slip in, OP one-man-army characters with abilities out the wazoo are a thing that's never been in TW before and are a far cry from the TT as well. But it's not killed the TW formula of gameplay. If anything the new Domination/Survival battles have more in common with a tower defense than anything else. And as a unique quest battle type, I have no problem with that.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed, Shadow King
    Bring back proper naval battles CA!!!
    Me when I see a LL character implemented as a LH.

  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 3,331
    I saw a post on Reddit with a screenshot from 4chan saying how the users complaining about how Moba like it is are complaint about classic RTS mechanics.

    Also it's literally nothing like a Moba.



    You know things are bad when users on 4chan are using logic and making more reasonable statements that people on this forum.
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 4,230
    People seriously need to learn some patience.

    We’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg in regards to this game.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 26,713
    The key to a good insult is truth. A good insult will to some significant degree be true and stick in someone's brain. It directs the conversation to where the insulter wants.

    The problem with calling it a MOBA is that it's so far from true that it shifts the conversation to how the insult is nowhere close to being right. Outside of this thread it'll be forgotten.
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
  • MaksboMaksbo Registered Users Posts: 365
    I wouldn't call it moba. But the survival mode, which I'm pretty sure plays a part in the main campaign too, looks very gamey, immersion breaking and lore hateful. I think those are very valid points to bring up. If it's indeed true, that during my campaign I can/will have to go the main seats of the chaos gods within the chaos realms, to lay siege on their very strongholds, where I builds towers and upgrade weapons on the fly... then the warhammer total war has lost a lot in the name superficial gamey mechanics
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,643
    How is WH3 a MOBA game?
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
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