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Since Mortal Empire won’t be available at launch of W3

RonNLRonNL Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 601
edited May 17 in General Discussion
Hi all,

The more that I read or see about W3 the more concerning issues pop up.

So the big map won’t be available at launch, the same as with W2.

Source:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-05-13-hands-on-with-total-war-warhammer-3s-new-survival-battles

The new battle feature seems to take out a lot of the strategy out of the TW series. So there is a instant heal option that heals your entire army. I do feel that gameplay is more important then lore but seriously? The rule of cool should not stomp over everything IMO.

Also:

- monsters still getting stuck on infantry
- Cav still get stuck from what I can tell from the footage
- Missle units still seem to be OP vs AI
- Pathfinding is still an issue according to some of the YouTubers
- AI seems to be lacklustre

I know that this community loves this game series (so do I) but am I the only one that feels this game won’t be as good as we all hope since it isn’t addresses the communities main concerns and instead are focussing on a mode that makes little to no sense just for the rule of cool?

I really hope I’m wrong and I know it is early game footage but this is concerning to me.

Comments

  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 8,604
    How does the mode make little to no sense since its entirely what would happen if an army was somehow able to invade the chaos realm?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • Rob18446Rob18446 Registered Users Posts: 2,292
    So becuase we only saw a brief snippet of a new game mode suddenly that's the only thing they've done with the game? Or maybe you know you could wait for the rest of the reveals before going all doom and gloom?
  • KirGeoKirGeo Registered Users Posts: 900
    My stance from what we have seen is the models look good but the details showed till now is not enough to sell the game to me. If the major concerns of the community are not addressed I'll wait till reviews and maybe buy the game on sale.
    We want all the factions Dogs of War, Araby, Ind, Kuresh, Nippon, Hobgoblin Khanate. Milk us CA.
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601
    Amonkhet said:

    How does the mode make little to no sense since its entirely what would happen if an army was somehow able to invade the chaos realm?

    That in its entirety makes little sense but if you the player is able to **** without any reason like be able to heal your entire army without explanation takes out not just the lore bit but also the tactics part of this game?

    This feel more and more like Games of Thrones season 8, “we did it because it looked cool”.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 8,604
    edited May 17
    RonNL said:

    Amonkhet said:

    How does the mode make little to no sense since its entirely what would happen if an army was somehow able to invade the chaos realm?

    That in its entirety makes little sense but if you the player is able to **** without any reason like be able to heal your entire army without explanation takes out not just the lore bit but also the tactics part of this game?

    This feel more and more like Games of Thrones season 8, “we did it because it looked cool”.
    Its a wave based survival game mode. The only way that works is some form of healing and/or recruitment between Waves. Its a new more 'epic' type of battle since players complained about how boring and mundane the Quest Battles in previous two games were.

    This entire problem is caused by the inclusion of Monogods. If you want Monogods in, you need to have the Realm of Chaos (since its the monogods and the great game) which means, then, that to wipe out the Monogods you need mortal factions to be able to interact with the Realm of Chaos in order to not break Total War design philosophy.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.

    We're paying full price for a Chaos Warrior of Tzeentch without any actual Tzeentch markings or changes to the model? Change this now CA, #JusticeForTzeentch #TLM
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601
    edited May 17
    Rob18446 said:

    So becuase we only saw a brief snippet of a new game mode suddenly that's the only thing they've done with the game? Or maybe you know you could wait for the rest of the reveals before going all doom and gloom?

    No, but it shows a bit of CA’s hand and where this series is going. Again these are signs that this game is going to be more of a DLC then a new game.

    W2 has a lot of issues that are known and need to be addressed and with this new release it is our main chance to speak up. And it worries me to see this game mode since it takes a lot of time and money to make for something that makes little to no sense and is just there because it looks cool. Instead that time and money could have been used on focussing on addressing those issues and improving the game as a whole.
  • SindrissSindriss Registered Users Posts: 511
    RonNL said:

    Hi all,

    The more that I read or see about W3 the more concerning issues pop up.

    So the big map won’t be available at launch, the same as with W2.

    Source:

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-05-13-hands-on-with-total-war-warhammer-3s-new-survival-battles

    The new battle feature seems to take out a lot of the strategy out of the TW series. So there is a instant heal option that heals your entire army. I do feel that gameplay is more important then lore but seriously? The rule of cool should not stomp over everything IMO.

    Also:

    - monsters still getting stuck on infantry
    - Cav still get stuck from what I can tell from the footage
    - Missle units still seem to be OP vs AI
    - Pathfinding is still an issue according to some of the YouTubers
    - AI seems to be lacklustre

    I know that this community loves this game series (so do I) but am I the only one that feels this game won’t be as good as we all hope since it isn’t addresses the communities main concerns and instead are focussing on a mode that makes little to no sense just for the rule of cool?

    I really hope I’m wrong and I know it is early game footage but this is concerning to me.


    Hi welcome
  • The_RadudeThe_Radude Registered Users Posts: 373
    How about wait for more stuff? We still have about 4-6 months left and still more content and info to be revealed. This will not be all that Game 3 has to offer.

    So calm down and be patient.
  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,218
    I don't get what the title of your post has to do with the content of your post.

    If you feel like the game is not worth playing until the "Mortal Empires" map is released, then wait to buy the game once it is?

    I expect WH3 will be an incrementally better Total War Warhammer game. So far, what I am seeing is on par with my expectations.

    If I had one wish, it's that they find a way to even better optimize load times and turn times for the new combined map.
  • RowdyRowdy Registered Users Posts: 58
    I think the point was, maybe they should have spent the time and resources improving things like the game engine. rather them putting in a game mode i think most of us will not want to play more then a couple of times.

    Like the beastmen campaign for example, except now they can force us to do it by making it quest related.
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601
    Rowdy said:

    I think the point was, maybe they should have spent the time and resources improving things like the game engine. rather them putting in a game mode i think most of us will not want to play more then a couple of times.

    Like the beastmen campaign for example, except now they can force us to do it by making it quest related.

    Yes this is my point, and that I am just worried that we are going through the same path as with W2.
    A mortal empire map that has been delayed due to technical issues and the things that comes after that. Longer loading times, FPS drops & other hardware issues.
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601

    I don't get what the title of your post has to do with the content of your post.

    If you feel like the game is not worth playing until the "Mortal Empires" map is released, then wait to buy the game once it is?

    I expect WH3 will be an incrementally better Total War Warhammer game. So far, what I am seeing is on par with my expectations.

    If I had one wish, it's that they find a way to even better optimize load times and turn times for the new combined map.

    Yeah you have a point about the title though.
    I just wanted to express my concerns since this release seems to be followed the same path as W2 release. This game has so much potential and a game modes like this won’t help solving the issues W2 has. And I feel that those issues should have a way higher priority then a tower defence kinda mode that makes no sense other then “it looks cool”.
  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,358
    There is way too little infos we have to come to any conclusions...

    I personally look forward to this mode, I just want it to be actually hard to win for it to be entertaining. Survival can be fun, just need to tweak and balance it so that all the options you can buy points with are viable depending on your build and make sure there isnt just a few viable ''cookiecutter'' options.
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,999
    Are the wave battles just a quest battle or is this some lunacy we will have to regularly partake in by force?
  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,358
    edited May 18
    Itharus said:

    Are the wave battles just a quest battle or is this some lunacy we will have to regularly partake in by force?

    They are said by youtubers to be rare, likely end game scenarios of the main campaign, like the final battle in Vortex.

    Other then that you can play them in customs / MP. EDIT: and coop.
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,999
    Eh. I hope they aren't a thing in the Grand Campaign. Which is all that ME and it's successor really are. The true heart of Total War, that. Not all these... missions.
  • DulahanDulahan Registered Users Posts: 232
    I mean, yeah. Honestly for all I've preordered I don't really intend to play much aside from some basic roster playing around with until the ME equivalent launches. Just like I didn't even BUY 1 or 2 until ME came out. The Quest Gimmicky stuff just makes me want to play the non ME version even less.
  • BlacedBlaced Registered Users Posts: 1,498
    Battle of Brass Citadel is either a quest battle or a final battle (like the battle of the Vortex), won't see them very often
  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 1,288
    You lure me in to this thread with a title about Mortal Empires, only to have me witness another thread about a list of complaints with a game that is not finished.

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,996
    The new features doesn’t take out ‘the strategy’. You’re on the campaign map and you make longterm decisions on what you’re going to do to achieve your ultimate goal (strategy).

    This ‘muh TW has no tactics or strategy’ BS is getting a little tiresome. Like in the old games you needed to read up on The Art of War to be successful.
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601

    The new features doesn’t take out ‘the strategy’. You’re on the campaign map and you make longterm decisions on what you’re going to do to achieve your ultimate goal (strategy).

    This ‘muh TW has no tactics or strategy’ BS is getting a little tiresome. Like in the old games you needed to read up on The Art of War to be successful.

    It doesn’t take it out it makes it simpler, I personally really dislike a healing button that appears out of nowhere or I need unit x and then the game goes “Here you go” it appears out of nowhere. Your general died, no problem just pay some resources and he or she gets revived ect.

    And if it really is a campaign feature how will it handle doom stacks? The devs did mention that this is a feature on its own, although they didn’t think it through how it should go if the player selected a chaos faction.

    Source:

  • IokkoIokko Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,007
    I agree that the instant healing and replenishment create a weird disconnect with the rest of the campaign, I personally don't like it.

    What I do like is that we can play this outside of the campaign, where it doesn't matter what the context is, it just needs to be fun and by the looks of it, it is (once you ramp up the difficulty a bit).

    I've mentioned this before but I have friends who own the game but aren't into PvP, and don't have the time for a coop campaign (even if they did, you rarely get to fight side by side in one). On the other hand we've often played other games with a survival or coop mode together, so I'm excited to have one in my favorite game as well.

    My one concern is that it might get stale very quickly if there are only 4 maps and you can only fight demons. Will fighting Khorne or nurgle really make a difference when enemies are so heavily nerfed and the AI is on rails?

    We'll have to wait and see but I'm optimistic about this feature.
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • RonNLRonNL Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 601
    Pede said:

    You lure me in to this thread with a title about Mortal Empires, only to have me witness another thread about a list of complaints with a game that is not finished.

    Sorry Pede that was never my intention. Of course the game is not finished but these are concerns not complains. Look I just don’t want another Norsca & ME W2 fiasco.
  • General_HijaltiGeneral_Hijalti Registered Users Posts: 4,373
    RonNL said:

    The new features doesn’t take out ‘the strategy’. You’re on the campaign map and you make longterm decisions on what you’re going to do to achieve your ultimate goal (strategy).

    This ‘muh TW has no tactics or strategy’ BS is getting a little tiresome. Like in the old games you needed to read up on The Art of War to be successful.

    It doesn’t take it out it makes it simpler, I personally really dislike a healing button that appears out of nowhere or I need unit x and then the game goes “Here you go” it appears out of nowhere. Your general died, no problem just pay some resources and he or she gets revived ect.

    And if it really is a campaign feature how will it handle doom stacks? The devs did mention that this is a feature on its own, although they didn’t think it through how it should go if the player selected a chaos faction.

    Source:

    You linked a video where his main complaints were that 40mims for a battle was too long, and that CA shouldn't have wasted resources on a better quest battle mode and that everyone asked for banners and musicians.
  • ERICdbsERICdbs CataloniaRegistered Users Posts: 633
    I get where are you coming from and I agree that there are some issues that should be resolved by game 3 that don't appear to have been fixed in the gameplay so far (such as AI blobbing or models getting stuck), but then again, we haven't seen much just yet.

    I suggest a bit of patience to see if the issues are really addressed or not in the future videos, and then decide on whether or not you'll buy the game or not closer to the release day.

    In theory, we should expect sieges reworks, minor settlement battles, some balancing and a better campaign experience, so we'll see where we are.
  • FerestorFerestor Registered Users Posts: 1,261
    I don't share your opinion here.

    I like the new game mode. Some different battles makes the game more fun for me.

    The new mode is in the chaos realm where the Winds of Magic are endless so the instant healing is just a healing spell for me.

    As for the other points we don't know how the A.I. will be. This was an alpha build and if I remember correctly the A.I. was tweaked to be weaker then normal so that the journalist can win.

    And to all who wanted a different game engine this was a pipe dream from the beginning. A trillogy always has the same engine. As a Dev you don't want make everything new for each game.
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