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My Take on Thematic Army Compositions - The Empire

GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444
edited May 2021 in General Discussion
Hello all,

I've slacked off given my interest in the recent news, but I am back to my thematic army series. As always, these are supposed to be fun, thematic army compositions for the campaign. They may not be viable multiplayer builds, and that's fine with me, because I don't play MP. Also, I am not a lore expert.

As to campaign exclusive units: In my Wulfhart campaign, I was able to recruit multiple Carroburg Greatswords units, so in a few lists, I've added multiples of exclusive units. I confess that I haven't played an Old World Empire campaign since their update, so I'm not sure if you can actually recruit more than one of those units. If not, then just replace all but one with their generic counterparts.

1) Emperor Karl Franz

Franz on Deathclaw
Bright Wizard on Imperial Pegasus
Carroburg Greatswords x5
Crossbowmen x4
Reiksguard x4*
Demigryph Knights*
The Royal Altdorf Gryphites*
Hammer of the Witches*
Great Cannon*
The Emperor's Wrath

*Edits made based on KN_Gars and LennoxPoodle's input. Reiksguard have largely replaced demigryphs as the cavalry.

2) Balthasar Gelt

Balthasar on Quicksilver
Empire Captain on Imperial Pegasus
Swordsmen x3*
Halbrediers x2*
Stirland's Revenge
Free Company Militia x2
Luminark of Hysh x2*
Outriders (Grenade Launchers)*
The Bordermen
Helblaster Volley Guns x2
The Sunmaker
Helstorm Rocket Battery x3

*Edits made based on LennoxPoodle's input. I kept the Outriders, but made them less elite/rare. I think that the explosiveness fits with his lore of metal/artillery theme.

3) Volkmar the Grim

Volkmar on War Altar of Sigmar
Warrior Priest on Barded Warhorse
Celestial Wizard on Barded Warhorse
Sigmar's Sons
The Tattersouls
Flagellants x5
The Silver Bullets
Gunderman's Surefires
Handgunners x2
Knights of the Blazing Sun x4
Templehof Luminark

Per a previous thread of mine, I went with a Celestial Wizard over a Light Wizard because of the Sigmar associations, but there's still some Light magic in the army with the Luminark. There was commentary that the Knights of the Blazing sun don't have an association with Volkmar, but until somebody suggests more appropriate cavalry, I am keeping them. He does start with a unit of them, after all.

4) Markus Wulfhart

Markus
Rodrik L'Anguille
Hertwig van Hal
Kalara
Jorek Grimm
Nordland Mariners x5
The White Wolves
Huntsmen x4
The Black Lions
War Wagons (Mortars) x3
Obsinite Gyrocopter

The Mariners are used as the primary infantry not because of any association that Wulfhart has to Nordland (I know of none), but rather that they're an anti-large unit that is recruited via the Imperial Reinforcements panel, Markus' unique mechanic. Also, their unit description implies that they'd be suited to a long sea voyage to reinforce a distant ally. All unique heroes are included. I almost swapped one of the War Wagons (Mortars) for a Jade or Amber Wizard, but I didn't end up using any magic in his army during my personal campaign.

I fully expect this to be the most picked-apart segment of my series for the WH1 races, so I am ready. I am perfectly willing to make edits if sound arguments are made. As always, thanks for reading!

Edit: I received less critiquing than I was expecting. The Empire has far too much lore for me to be aware of, so I will keep checking the thread to see if I need to tweak anything. I appreciate those who have helped so far!

Previous Thematic Army Threads:

Dwarfs - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288070/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-dwarfs
Vampire Counts - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288074/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-vampire-counts
Greenskins - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288285/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-greenskins
Wood Elves - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288448/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-wood-elves
Post edited by GoldfishLord on

Comments

  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,931
    Well it depends on how strictly you want to observe the lore, a lot of the exclusive units should really be single RoRs but Mortal Empire does allow you to recruit more than one of each unit. They start out more expensive compared to the Vortex campaign and there is a cooldown between eash unit you recruit. So for the Carroburgs you can only recruit one every 15 turns and so on.

    For the rest it depends on how you want to balance being thematic and being highly effective. Being fully thematic and lorefriendly would involve using more mid-tier units while making the true elites more rare. Your Karl Franz army probably has more Demis than the entire Reikland army and Reiksguard could muster in the lore, those things are rare. One could argue that most of the RoR's from WH1 should be in Volkmar's army since they were part of his crusade.

    In the lore Karl Franz army is focus on the Reiksguard which includes the Imperial Foot, a unit not in Total War yet, his private army the Griffon Legion (Greatswords) and the soldiers of the armies of Altdorf and Reikland. So a large force of Greatswords is fitting, handgunners would represent Reikland and Altdorf State Troops but most of the Demis should be switched to Reiksguard. Personally I use halberdiers to hold the line, with the buffs from skills I find that they do a better job than Greatswords of holding the line, Greatswords get to deliver the counter punch. I also just like the look of the mix.
    I also tend to prefer to have some artillery present, Steam tanks lack the firepower for counter-battery work and I can't always trust the Reiksguard to sweep enemy missile troops from the field quickly.
    And also people gotta not confuse world building, you know, bring the world to life by referencing stuffs that isn't on the map, or is an event, to some kind of announcement, you know? That is certainly not the case.
    -Andy Hall, Principal Writer and Narrative Designer for Warhammer 3.
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,752
    I must say I really like your thematic armies series and have been following them since the first one. There is always a nice amount of good tips and debate on those topic that helps me create armies for my campaigns.

    Please keep them coming. :smile:
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444
    MiniaAr said:

    I must say I really like your thematic armies series and have been following them since the first one. There is always a nice amount of good tips and debate on those topic that helps me create armies for my campaigns.

    Please keep them coming. :smile:

    What's funny is that just a minute ago I was considering stopping after I finish the first game's races. But I will keep going! Thank you for the kind words.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,667
    First off, I love your series and am glad to see it return.
    So to the meat of it:
    Pretty much every army of the empire relies on state troops. Those are halberdiers, spearmen, swordsmen, handgunners, crossbowmen and Greatswords, though those are the best of the best drawn from the others (mainly swordsmen iirc) and so rare and expensive that they usually guard the lords in battle. Admittedly Franz his Gryphon Legion as @KN_Gars pointed out. As a rule of thumb the majority of the statetroops are halberdiers in the more modern south and spearmen in the more traditionalist north. There's a similar thing with handgunners (or rather all gunpowder) and bowmen/huntsmen going on iirc. Luckily all legendary lords except Markus (and Boris) can be considered southern.
    The Reiksguard are the emperors official bodyguard, so Franz should have a lot of them. Demis on the other hand are rather rare, a knightly order being fortunate if it owns 6 of them. So more than one unit per army seems a stretch lorewise.
    Balthasar is richer than Scrooge McDuck and as head of a college that amongst other things specializes in alchemy and transmutation has probably very good relationships to the Institutions of Nuln. So an artillery heavy approach (it is all expensive and comes from the mentioned city) like yours seems to be the way, particularly those exotic pieces. Also Luminarcs (and Hurricanums) belong to the organisations he's patriach of. I like your inclusion of free company, as they often are mercs. The services of Outriders are expensive too btw...
    The Grimm and the Grave was basically built around Volkmar. All the RoR fit, since they were all from bis Blood of Sigmar army and your approach of heavy leaning into flagelants makes sense. Whenever he goes to war he'll probably attract a large quantity of these looneys. He's not light but sigmar themed though. Knights of the Blazing Sun follow a completely different cult - it's just one regiment from Talabecland that followed him into Sylvania iirc - and the Luminarcs belong to the bright order, without having any type of special connection to the temple. I guess guns fit better than crossbows, thanks to Sigmar worship being kind of a southern thing, with Nuln as a big center outside Altdorf (I mean Magnus is from there).
    For Markus I can't really say much beyond focusing heavily on huntsmen - he's kind of their highest ranking leader - and sticking with lower tech stuff.

    So yeah, I think you're rather close. Maybe get rid of greatsword frontlines for everyone but Franz and spread some halberdiers/spearmen around. Also move the non-RoR Luminarcs to Balthasar, give him maybe a unit of Outriders or two, double down on RoR for Volkmar and replace the majority of gryphs with Reiksguard on Franz. Those are at least my, somewhat uninformed, sugestions.

    Franz: Steel
    Volkmar: Faith
    Balthasar: Gunpowder (with a bit of bling, bling ofc)
    Markus: Old surplus that might as well be send to some backwater colony.
    I mean that's more or less how colonial millitary equipment worked IRL. ;-)
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 444

    First off, I love your series and am glad to see it return.
    So to the meat of it:
    Pretty much every army of the empire relies on state troops. Those are halberdiers, spearmen, swordsmen, handgunners, crossbowmen and Greatswords, though those are the best of the best drawn from the others (mainly swordsmen iirc) and so rare and expensive that they usually guard the lords in battle. Admittedly Franz his Gryphon Legion as @KN_Gars pointed out. As a rule of thumb the majority of the statetroops are halberdiers in the more modern south and spearmen in the more traditionalist north. There's a similar thing with handgunners (or rather all gunpowder) and bowmen/huntsmen going on iirc. Luckily all legendary lords except Markus (and Boris) can be considered southern.
    The Reiksguard are the emperors official bodyguard, so Franz should have a lot of them. Demis on the other hand are rather rare, a knightly order being fortunate if it owns 6 of them. So more than one unit per army seems a stretch lorewise.
    Balthasar is richer than Scrooge McDuck and as head of a college that amongst other things specializes in alchemy and transmutation has probably very good relationships to the Institutions of Nuln. So an artillery heavy approach (it is all expensive and comes from the mentioned city) like yours seems to be the way, particularly those exotic pieces. Also Luminarcs (and Hurricanums) belong to the organisations he's patriach of. I like your inclusion of free company, as they often are mercs. The services of Outriders are expensive too btw...
    The Grimm and the Grave was basically built around Volkmar. All the RoR fit, since they were all from bis Blood of Sigmar army and your approach of heavy leaning into flagelants makes sense. Whenever he goes to war he'll probably attract a large quantity of these looneys. He's not light but sigmar themed though. Knights of the Blazing Sun follow a completely different cult - it's just one regiment from Talabecland that followed him into Sylvania iirc - and the Luminarcs belong to the bright order, without having any type of special connection to the temple. I guess guns fit better than crossbows, thanks to Sigmar worship being kind of a southern thing, with Nuln as a big center outside Altdorf (I mean Magnus is from there).
    For Markus I can't really say much beyond focusing heavily on huntsmen - he's kind of their highest ranking leader - and sticking with lower tech stuff.

    So yeah, I think you're rather close. Maybe get rid of greatsword frontlines for everyone but Franz and spread some halberdiers/spearmen around. Also move the non-RoR Luminarcs to Balthasar, give him maybe a unit of Outriders or two, double down on RoR for Volkmar and replace the majority of gryphs with Reiksguard on Franz. Those are at least my, somewhat uninformed, sugestions.

    Franz: Steel
    Volkmar: Faith
    Balthasar: Gunpowder (with a bit of bling, bling ofc)
    Markus: Old surplus that might as well be send to some backwater colony.
    I mean that's more or less how colonial millitary equipment worked IRL. ;-)

    Thank you both for your support and input! I plan on making some edits when I am back at my computer.
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