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Most wanted 190 factions ranked

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  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    edited May 2021
    kaihoo said:

    Somebody's making things up again...

    四年冬,遂自率諸屯兵觿合十萬人以攻瓚。 瓚時部曲放散在外,倉卒自懼不免,乃掘東城欲走。虞兵不習戰,又愛人廬舍,勅不聽焚燒,急攻圍不下。瓚乃簡募銳士數百人,因風縱火,直衝突之。虞遂大敗,與官屬北奔居庸縣。[一]瓚追攻之,三日城陷,遂執虞並妻子還薊,猶使領州文書。

    Translation:

    "In the winter of the 4th year, Liu Yu raised an army of 10,000 to attack GongSun Zan. Yu's troops were not accustomed to battle, and was not able to defeat Zan, where Zan raised several hundred troops to burn down Yu's camp. Yu's army was defeated, and retreated to 居庸 city which fell within three days of Zan's attack resulting in the capture of Yu, his wife and children."

    From the HouHanshu, Volume 73 recordings of the biographies of Liu Yu, Gongsun Zan and Tao Qian. B)B)B)

  • E_L_2E_L_2 Registered Users Posts: 173

    kaihoo said:

    Somebody's making things up again...

    四年冬,遂自率諸屯兵觿合十萬人以攻瓚。 瓚時部曲放散在外,倉卒自懼不免,乃掘東城欲走。虞兵不習戰,又愛人廬舍,勅不聽焚燒,急攻圍不下。瓚乃簡募銳士數百人,因風縱火,直衝突之。虞遂大敗,與官屬北奔居庸縣。[一]瓚追攻之,三日城陷,遂執虞並妻子還薊,猶使領州文書。

    Translation:

    "In the winter of the 4th year, Liu Yu raised an army of 10,000 to attack GongSun Zan. Yu's troops were not accustomed to battle, and was not able to defeat Zan, where Zan raised several hundred troops to burn down Yu's camp. Yu's army was defeated, and retreated to 居庸 city which fell within three days of Zan's attack resulting in the capture of Yu, his wife and children."

    From the HouHanshu, Volume 73 recordings of the biographies of Liu Yu, Gongsun Zan and Tao Qian. B)B)B)
    Why does he have to be a great military leader? Isn't what everyone is hoping from his faction that of a more passive but diplomatic playstyle? Like Kong Rong, which promotes turtling up and using diplomacy and trade to bring yourself closer to victory.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    E_L_2 said:

    Why does he have to be a great military leader? Isn't what everyone is hoping from his faction that of a more passive but diplomatic playstyle? Like Kong Rong, which promotes turtling up and using diplomacy and trade to bring yourself closer to victory.

    I don't see Kong Rong as a passive faction encouraging turtling, he's one of the strongest factions with the current ranged damage meta with his insane crossbows where he can melt most enemies including romance generals with 18 fury of Beihai. Kong Rong's faction also lasts until 194 with Kong Rong himself also making an appearance in 200 under Cao Cao, so Liu Yu being a terrible military leader is only part of the argument, with the main point being he doesn't even make it to 194 while other factions such as Huang Zu makes it to 208.

  • RewanRewan Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,806
    Yeah what about Dong Zhuo then ?
    _________________________________

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  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    Rewan said:

    Yeah what about Dong Zhuo then ?

    He's at the center of the story in 190 so that kinda explains it, his relevance to the story is leaps and bounds ahead of Liu Yu.

  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 803
    edited May 2021
    Again main relevance that Liu Yu would bring is his interaction with the northern tribes. There are a lot of creative things they could do with this faction without making it a militaristic focused faction. Perhaps his mechanics actively make him suck at fielding his own armies, but perhaps he could call on northern tribes to fight for him, where you are granted a force of northern tribe units and generals for several turns. He could have a very different playstyle which is why he could be interesting if implemented.
  • Vin362Vin362 Registered Users Posts: 1,478
    edited May 2021
    We'll have to wait to see what comes with the next expansion (but I can see the threads complaining about no Liu Yu if he wasn't included with Northern expansion already)
    Supporter of Shu-Han, I wish Total War Three Kingdoms had a Three Kingdoms start date, rider of Kislev, admiral of The Awakened and Elector Count of Shu-Han
  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 803
    Vin362 said:

    We'll have to wait to see what comes with the next expansion (but I can see the threads complaining about no Liu Yu if he wasn't included with Northern expansion already)

    If they give us Han Sui or Zhang Lu with neat mechanics I won't complain personally
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707

    Again main relevance that Liu Yu would bring is his interaction with the northern tribes. There are a lot of creative things they could do with this faction without making it a militaristic focused faction. Perhaps his mechanics actively make him suck at fielding his own armies, but perhaps he could call on northern tribes to fight for him, where you are granted a force of northern tribe units and generals for several turns. He could have a very different playstyle which is why he could be interesting if implemented.

    What do you think of my reasoning for making Huang Zu a unique faction instead?

  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004
    edited May 2021
    Huang zu is fine tbh . But I think it’s too early to add him is next scenario . He’s perfect for FLC for chi bi as it’s not only his last stand but also because he’s in 190, 194 and 200 . They just need to move Gan Ning to his force at 194 and 200 ad . Just as I feel wei yan should start with Liu biao and stay with him till Liu biao dies unless historic events change a lot or he really likes Liu biaos faction

    In terms of the next dlc while I do vote for Liu Yu due to relevance to the northern tribes I would also be pretty happy if han sui got added but I hope he gets northern tribe / qiang culture so I could not see him being a FLC . Same with zhang lu I wanna see him along with ze Rong and yang feng/dude before him a mix of turbans , bandits and hanic as a culture or using similar units to these factions but designed little differently and stats and such

    A gongsun zan rework though i would also be pretty happy with if no new faction for northern tribes though . He should be reworked to be an effective hanic faction vs the northern tribes
  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 803
    edited May 2021

    Again main relevance that Liu Yu would bring is his interaction with the northern tribes. There are a lot of creative things they could do with this faction without making it a militaristic focused faction. Perhaps his mechanics actively make him suck at fielding his own armies, but perhaps he could call on northern tribes to fight for him, where you are granted a force of northern tribe units and generals for several turns. He could have a very different playstyle which is why he could be interesting if implemented.

    What do you think of my reasoning for making Huang Zu a unique faction instead?
    I wouldn't be opposed to it since the conflict with Sun Quan would be interesting. Although for me personally I like Cai Mao a bit more because the Cai family scheming seems interesting if it were captured nicely in the game.
    Cai Mao and Huang Zu are fine choices overall.

    P.S. If they do Huang Zu they should give him Gan Ning instead of being with Liu Biao. Liu Biao can get Wei Yan.
  • TheTrueLordAndyTheTrueLordAndy Registered Users Posts: 803

    Huang zu is fine tbh . But I think it’s too early to add him is next scenario . He’s perfect for FLC for chi bi as it’s not only his last stand but also because he’s in 190, 194 and 200 . They just need to move Gan Ning to his force at 194 and 200 ad . Just as I feel wei yan should start with Liu biao and stay with him till Liu biao dies unless historic events change a lot or he really likes Liu biaos faction

    In terms of the next dlc while I do vote for Liu Yu due to relevance to the northern tribes I would also be pretty happy if han sui got added but I hope he gets northern tribe / qiang culture so I could not see him being a FLC . Same with zhang lu I wanna see him along with ze Rong and yang feng/dude before him a mix of turbans , bandits and hanic as a culture or using similar units to these factions but designed little differently and stats and such

    A gongsun zan rework though i would also be pretty happy with if no new faction for northern tribes though . He should be reworked to be an effective hanic faction vs the northern tribes

    Completely agree with all you said.
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707

    A gongsun zan rework though i would also be pretty happy with if no new faction for northern tribes though . He should be reworked to be an effective hanic faction vs the northern tribes

    Yeah I would prefer a Gongsun Zan rework and/or Han Sui being playable with new mechanics. Gongsun Zan is one of the few remaining 190 factions that doesn't have a faction currency with Ma Teng and should be reworked imo.

    I wouldn't be opposed to it since the conflict with Sun Quan would be interesting. Although for me personally I like Cai Mao a bit more because the Cai family scheming seems interesting if it were captured nicely in the game.
    Cai Mao and Huang Zu are fine choices overall.

    P.S. If they do Huang Zu they should give him Gan Ning instead of being with Liu Biao. Liu Biao can get Wei Yan.

    I think that Cai Mao would be harder to implement as a unique lord since he is only independent in 190 only holding a livestock farm in Nan while Huang Zu is there from 190 to 208 holding JiangXia so there is a lot more room and potential to expand Huang Zu than Cai Mao. If they were to make a mechanic for Cai Mao it should be made part of Liu Biao's faction because Cai Mao worked his way around within Liu Biao's faction as opposed to working as a vassal while Huang Zu held his independent realm in JiangXia. I do agree that Gan Ning should join Huang Zu after the historical date, and Wei Yan should be with Liu Biao with respect to the story.

  • MasterSlayeXMasterSlayeX Registered Users Posts: 1,004

    A gongsun zan rework though i would also be pretty happy with if no new faction for northern tribes though . He should be reworked to be an effective hanic faction vs the northern tribes

    Yeah I would prefer a Gongsun Zan rework and/or Han Sui being playable with new mechanics. Gongsun Zan is one of the few remaining 190 factions that doesn't have a faction currency with Ma Teng and should be reworked imo.

    I wouldn't be opposed to it since the conflict with Sun Quan would be interesting. Although for me personally I like Cai Mao a bit more because the Cai family scheming seems interesting if it were captured nicely in the game.
    Cai Mao and Huang Zu are fine choices overall.

    P.S. If they do Huang Zu they should give him Gan Ning instead of being with Liu Biao. Liu Biao can get Wei Yan.

    I think that Cai Mao would be harder to implement as a unique lord since he is only independent in 190 only holding a livestock farm in Nan while Huang Zu is there from 190 to 208 holding JiangXia so there is a lot more room and potential to expand Huang Zu than Cai Mao. If they were to make a mechanic for Cai Mao it should be made part of Liu Biao's faction because Cai Mao worked his way around within Liu Biao's faction as opposed to working as a vassal while Huang Zu held his independent realm in JiangXia. I do agree that Gan Ning should join Huang Zu after the historical date, and Wei Yan should be with Liu Biao with respect to the story.
    Yah the only way I can really see them doing cai mao is if he’s made his own faction in 194 and 200 (I would not object to this it’s less land Liu bei inherits ) though I would say the chances of that would be low . But I. Feel if they did cai mao they should share cai maos with Liu Congs (if chi bi takes place before Liu cong surrender ) as they can always make use of cai maos uniques for Liu cong (as he had the backing of the cai family and since they are related though family ) but that all depends on the timing , how many more packs we will get ext . Like if chi bi got huang zu (FLC), cai mao/Liu cong , Liu Qi (mainly picked the 2 sons to represent the split of Liu biao and the diffrent sides and approaches they took plus everyone likes more unique heirs) and sun quan and tong gate got a ma chao/ma teng rework , han sui and zhang lu id be pretty happy with the faction roster
  • E_L_2E_L_2 Registered Users Posts: 173

    E_L_2 said:

    Why does he have to be a great military leader? Isn't what everyone is hoping from his faction that of a more passive but diplomatic playstyle? Like Kong Rong, which promotes turtling up and using diplomacy and trade to bring yourself closer to victory.

    I don't see Kong Rong as a passive faction encouraging turtling, he's one of the strongest factions with the current ranged damage meta with his insane crossbows where he can melt most enemies including romance generals with 18 fury of Beihai. Kong Rong's faction also lasts until 194 with Kong Rong himself also making an appearance in 200 under Cao Cao, so Liu Yu being a terrible military leader is only part of the argument, with the main point being he doesn't even make it to 194 while other factions such as Huang Zu makes it to 208.
    I agree that his ranged units are amazing, and I see your point about Kong Rong. However, I've always received the impression that Kong Rong was a pacifist build-tall faction - it seems like outside of Liu Biao, he is the next most common choice when people discuss their recent build-tall campaign.
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