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I like the NEW Kislev compared to OLD

2

Comments

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,445
    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    yeah that's why no matter how much complains happen not going to change

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,959
    saweendra said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    yeah that's why no matter how much complains happen not going to change
    Duh, seems like modders have to fix it again..
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,532
    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
  • petertel123petertel123 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,039
    TeNoSkill said:

    ArchDemon said:

    saweendra said:

    ArchDemon said:

    saweendra said:

    Crossil said:

    I'm overall ambivalent. Ice sleds could work.... if the ice was smooth to make it seem like it could slide across the ground.

    But it ain't.

    yeah it needs tone down ice so it matches up more with official art
    where is the official art? dont think I have seen it


    Honestly I like it better with ice. since this would ONLY be able to work if ther eis snow.
    what if I wanna take over Empire or Tomb Kings as Kislev? that sled is not gonna work.

    atleast with moving ice it will always be moving since from the look of it the ice is moving. if the ice is not moving then I could se it being hard to move around with it.

    then again magic and warhammer does not need to make sense
    It does have to make sense or it is not interesting!

    Granted ,within its own rules, but these must be adhered and explanation must follow if they are not adhered to.

    Goblins in flying contraptions breaking brick walls makes sense to you?

    It's Warhammer, none of it makes sense.
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Dark Elves
  • ArchDemonArchDemon Registered Users Posts: 126
    TeNoSkill said:

    ArchDemon said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    ArchDemon said:

    Crossil said:

    I'm overall ambivalent. Ice sleds could work.... if the ice was smooth to make it seem like it could slide across the ground.

    But it ain't.

    but this is fantasy sometimes it does not need to make sense. its magic tadaa it works
    That´s the lowest bar possible and extremely laz, congrats.

    but that is the entire logic of warhammer in general. maybe its lazy way of thinking but if you have read most of the warhamemr books you also notice that even the GW that makes these books are lazy at times. perfect example is how End Times is. its the most lazy way of doing it and yet its there.

    Warhammer is a mess like I said many thing does not make sense because magic (that is the litteral logic in many of the books it works because magic)
    And you don t care about that or want to make it better?
    parts of why I love Warhammer so much is the Chaos in it all. I dont care much about the logic of it all since its fantasy. the point is that you are supposed to enjoy it. which I am. I might not always agree with what CA is doing but with kislev I dont mind

    like I still dislike what they did to Archaon and his helmet. looks very stupid but again some people liked it.
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,959

    TeNoSkill said:

    ArchDemon said:

    saweendra said:

    ArchDemon said:

    saweendra said:

    Crossil said:

    I'm overall ambivalent. Ice sleds could work.... if the ice was smooth to make it seem like it could slide across the ground.

    But it ain't.

    yeah it needs tone down ice so it matches up more with official art
    where is the official art? dont think I have seen it


    Honestly I like it better with ice. since this would ONLY be able to work if ther eis snow.
    what if I wanna take over Empire or Tomb Kings as Kislev? that sled is not gonna work.

    atleast with moving ice it will always be moving since from the look of it the ice is moving. if the ice is not moving then I could se it being hard to move around with it.

    then again magic and warhammer does not need to make sense
    It does have to make sense or it is not interesting!

    Granted ,within its own rules, but these must be adhered and explanation must follow if they are not adhered to.

    Goblins in flying contraptions breaking brick walls makes sense to you?

    It's Warhammer, none of it makes sense.
    That´s the adaptation of the game for doomdivers.

    It has to make sense and take itsself somewhat seriously or it gets forgotten, like the boom-and-zoom transformers movies.
  • xDEMOSxxDEMOSx Registered Users Posts: 1,114
    Even fantasy has limits, something totally psychedelic would cause convulsions and disgust in the general public, something totally abstract would also cause a negative reaction.

    the good fantasy is one that we can link the unreal with our reality, when we lose track of what is happening or find it too unreal, we tend to reject this fantasy, the Kislev models are cool but CA exaggerated the fresnel and the emission of shaders, the magic carpets are also strange, the ice was not necessary.

    Sometimes less is more.


  • ArchDemonArchDemon Registered Users Posts: 126
    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    I mean its my opinion that I wanted to share same as you are sharing your opinion. and yes its true they could have worked more on Kislev but they never did so why dweel on what they could have done?
    that is the same as saying oh I COULD have bought Bitcoin in 2015 but guess what I didnt it does not help to talk about what they could or could not have done.

    CA and GW are working togheter in this whatever CA is making is at this point pretty much cannon by GW standards
    I would not mind seeing a mix of all the old and new togheter. but as of right now it does not seem that is gonna happen and you are allowed do complain about that that is your right. its also your right to even try and have to change the model. and if they do change then that is fine
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,445
    TeNoSkill said:

    saweendra said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    yeah that's why no matter how much complains happen not going to change
    Duh, seems like modders have to fix it again..
    i mean you can play the current kislev mod which excatly the old kislev

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • ArchDemonArchDemon Registered Users Posts: 126
    xDEMOSx said:

    Even fantasy has limits, something totally psychedelic would cause convulsions and disgust in the general public, something totally abstract would also cause a negative reaction.

    the good fantasy is one that we can link the unreal with our reality, when we lose track of what is happening or find it too unreal, we tend to reject this fantasy, the Kislev models are cool but CA exaggerated the fresnel and the emission of shaders, the magic carpets are also strange, the ice was not necessary.

    Sometimes less is more.

    and I agree that going to far is bad but also Warhammer is High fantasy. the logic of High fantasy is that almost anything goes again ALMOST. ice on little grom is not going to far. its fully possible

    also how do you make sense with magic? we dont have it we cant fully explain how it works.
    it comes from the chaos realm. also GW can say whatever they want and that would be cannon.
    maybe kislev have an Ice Rune on little grom?

  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,959
    ArchDemon said:

    xDEMOSx said:

    Even fantasy has limits, something totally psychedelic would cause convulsions and disgust in the general public, something totally abstract would also cause a negative reaction.

    the good fantasy is one that we can link the unreal with our reality, when we lose track of what is happening or find it too unreal, we tend to reject this fantasy, the Kislev models are cool but CA exaggerated the fresnel and the emission of shaders, the magic carpets are also strange, the ice was not necessary.

    Sometimes less is more.

    and I agree that going to far is bad but also Warhammer is High fantasy. the logic of High fantasy is that almost anything goes again ALMOST. ice on little grom is not going to far. its fully possible

    also how do you make sense with magic? we dont have it we cant fully explain how it works.
    it comes from the chaos realm. also GW can say whatever they want and that would be cannon.
    maybe kislev have an Ice Rune on little grom?

    I don t know what´s your problem with magic;

    Magic is the thinned out essence of chaos flowing from the broken polar gates and the realm of chaos.
    The realm of chaos is influenced by the emotions of ALL sentient beeings, in terms of strength and stability.

    Some random people can sense this essence better then others and use it to shape reality through the strength of their mind.
    If they overdo it they blow up and create a portal for demons or get corrupted by chaos.

    So what exactly is NOT clear here?
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,412

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
    Had you done more thorough research before making such definite statement you would have known that Kislev had content well after 4th edition. You had releases for Warmaster, Mordheim as well as the_6th_edition supplement for WFB which came together with new models for Kossars and Boris Ursus. And that is counting just the actual tabletop content produced by the GW studio. If we add in material produced by Black Library you have the RPG supplement as well as a number of novels, all released well after 4th edition.

    You may also want to read up on how GW does canon & retcons because they have a different view of canon than you.
    And also people gotta not confuse world building, you know, bring the world to life by referencing stuffs that isn't on the map, or is an event, to some kind of announcement, you know? That is certainly not the case.
    -Andy Hall, Principal Writer and Narrative Designer for Warhammer 3.
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 942
    TOO. MANY. BEARS.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,532
    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
    Had you done more thorough research before making such definite statement you would have known that Kislev had content well after 4th edition. You had releases for Warmaster, Mordheim as well as the_6th_edition supplement for WFB which came together with new models for Kossars and Boris Ursus. And that is counting just the actual tabletop content produced by the GW studio. If we add in material produced by Black Library you have the RPG supplement as well as a number of novels, all released well after 4th edition.

    You may also want to read up on how GW does canon & retcons because they have a different view of canon than you.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were modules, not additions or expansions, the 6th Ed supplement was just that, a supplement that needed the Empire's roster and rules to work. Kislev never got the roster expansion and update almost every faction got; Bretonnia got more attention than Kislev ever did.

    It's not a debate on canon, it's a statement of fact that GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades. It never got a proper army book or roster well past it's implementation. What we're getting now would've likely appeared in 6th-8th edition Kislev.
  • xDEMOSxxDEMOSx Registered Users Posts: 1,114
    It is not something very lore, because the lore can suffer as many retcons as GW needed.

    But several elements that were described as elite, were trivialized, empire does not do that, perhaps because it is old, because if you follow this line of design, it would be demigryph carts, empire has many elite carts imagine all pulled by demigryphs.

    And the forum guys, made so much discussion about the monos' AoS units said they couldn't fit in the fantasy is that it would be absurd, look and play at new AoS Kislev army in the game.


  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,701
    xDEMOSx said:

    It is not something very lore, because the lore can suffer as many retcons as GW needed.

    But several elements that were described as elite, were trivialized, empire does not do that, perhaps because it is old, because if you follow this line of design, it would be demigryph carts, empire has many elite carts imagine all pulled by demigryphs.

    And the forum guys, made so much discussion about the monos' AoS units said they couldn't fit in the fantasy is that it would be absurd, look and play at new AoS Kislev army in the game.

    I stand by my point that the AoS stuff wouldn't fit in. ANd so far it seems that CA seems to agree, at least with Khorne.

    And I also think that the designs for Kislev don't quite fit.
    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,412

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
    Had you done more thorough research before making such definite statement you would have known that Kislev had content well after 4th edition. You had releases for Warmaster, Mordheim as well as the_6th_edition supplement for WFB which came together with new models for Kossars and Boris Ursus. And that is counting just the actual tabletop content produced by the GW studio. If we add in material produced by Black Library you have the RPG supplement as well as a number of novels, all released well after 4th edition.

    You may also want to read up on how GW does canon & retcons because they have a different view of canon than you.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were modules, not additions or expansions, the 6th Ed supplement was just that, a supplement that needed the Empire's roster and rules to work. Kislev never got the roster expansion and update almost every faction got; Bretonnia got more attention than Kislev ever did.

    It's not a debate on canon, it's a statement of fact that GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades. It never got a proper army book or roster well past it's implementation. What we're getting now would've likely appeared in 6th-8th edition Kislev.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were stand-alone games set in the Warhammer world, not 'modules'. Warmaster was designed for large scale battles different scale of miniatures than that used by WFB, it included a complete Kislev army list with the appropriate models. Mordheim used the same scale of figures as WFB and was indeed recomended by GW as a source for additional Kislev figures for WFB.

    Your claim was that Kislev had " no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition" when in fact they all of that. It has been proven false, now you claim that "GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades". Warhammer in it's classic form existed from 1993 (4th) to 2015 (8th), 22 years i.e a little over 2 decades, Kislev had content released from 1993 to 2007 i.e 14 years of the 22 so no Gw did not stop adding content to Kislev for decades. In fact for a non-army book race they got an unusual amount of content.

    We do know what we would have gotten in 6th edition Kislev, that is when we got
    Boris Ursus


    And the Kossars



    Not that similar to what we are getting now I would say.

    6th edition Warhammer was still a time when GW was still much into the historical aspect of the factions, the designers at the time would have reinforced the OldKislev style, not abandoned it.
    And also people gotta not confuse world building, you know, bring the world to life by referencing stuffs that isn't on the map, or is an event, to some kind of announcement, you know? That is certainly not the case.
    -Andy Hall, Principal Writer and Narrative Designer for Warhammer 3.
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered Users Posts: 1,231
    I like Nickelback and Rise of Skywalker.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,445
    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
    Had you done more thorough research before making such definite statement you would have known that Kislev had content well after 4th edition. You had releases for Warmaster, Mordheim as well as the_6th_edition supplement for WFB which came together with new models for Kossars and Boris Ursus. And that is counting just the actual tabletop content produced by the GW studio. If we add in material produced by Black Library you have the RPG supplement as well as a number of novels, all released well after 4th edition.

    You may also want to read up on how GW does canon & retcons because they have a different view of canon than you.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were modules, not additions or expansions, the 6th Ed supplement was just that, a supplement that needed the Empire's roster and rules to work. Kislev never got the roster expansion and update almost every faction got; Bretonnia got more attention than Kislev ever did.

    It's not a debate on canon, it's a statement of fact that GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades. It never got a proper army book or roster well past it's implementation. What we're getting now would've likely appeared in 6th-8th edition Kislev.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were stand-alone games set in the Warhammer world, not 'modules'. Warmaster was designed for large scale battles different scale of miniatures than that used by WFB, it included a complete Kislev army list with the appropriate models. Mordheim used the same scale of figures as WFB and was indeed recomended by GW as a source for additional Kislev figures for WFB.

    Your claim was that Kislev had " no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition" when in fact they all of that. It has been proven false, now you claim that "GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades". Warhammer in it's classic form existed from 1993 (4th) to 2015 (8th), 22 years i.e a little over 2 decades, Kislev had content released from 1993 to 2007 i.e 14 years of the 22 so no Gw did not stop adding content to Kislev for decades. In fact for a non-army book race they got an unusual amount of content.

    We do know what we would have gotten in 6th edition Kislev, that is when we got
    Boris Ursus


    And the Kossars



    Not that similar to what we are getting now I would say.

    6th edition Warhammer was still a time when GW was still much into the historical aspect of the factions, the designers at the time would have reinforced the OldKislev style, not abandoned it.
    again my man this is not 6 th edition GW team they have either gone away or retired or changed their views , this is the current GW.

    if you honestly didn't saw the writing on the wall of how fantastical they were going to be with ice guard than you were being way more optimistic

    hell as you have stated by the time of 8 th edition this is close to the type of kislev we would have seen.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,532
    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
    Had you done more thorough research before making such definite statement you would have known that Kislev had content well after 4th edition. You had releases for Warmaster, Mordheim as well as the_6th_edition supplement for WFB which came together with new models for Kossars and Boris Ursus. And that is counting just the actual tabletop content produced by the GW studio. If we add in material produced by Black Library you have the RPG supplement as well as a number of novels, all released well after 4th edition.

    You may also want to read up on how GW does canon & retcons because they have a different view of canon than you.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were modules, not additions or expansions, the 6th Ed supplement was just that, a supplement that needed the Empire's roster and rules to work. Kislev never got the roster expansion and update almost every faction got; Bretonnia got more attention than Kislev ever did.

    It's not a debate on canon, it's a statement of fact that GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades. It never got a proper army book or roster well past it's implementation. What we're getting now would've likely appeared in 6th-8th edition Kislev.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were stand-alone games set in the Warhammer world, not 'modules'. Warmaster was designed for large scale battles different scale of miniatures than that used by WFB, it included a complete Kislev army list with the appropriate models. Mordheim used the same scale of figures as WFB and was indeed recomended by GW as a source for additional Kislev figures for WFB.

    Your claim was that Kislev had " no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition" when in fact they all of that. It has been proven false, now you claim that "GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades". Warhammer in it's classic form existed from 1993 (4th) to 2015 (8th), 22 years i.e a little over 2 decades, Kislev had content released from 1993 to 2007 i.e 14 years of the 22 so no Gw did not stop adding content to Kislev for decades. In fact for a non-army book race they got an unusual amount of content.

    We do know what we would have gotten in 6th edition Kislev, that is when we got
    Boris Ursus


    And the Kossars



    Not that similar to what we are getting now I would say.

    6th edition Warhammer was still a time when GW was still much into the historical aspect of the factions, the designers at the time would have reinforced the OldKislev style, not abandoned it.
    Modules and separate games are the same thing; isolated rosters and settings independent of the main one. Mordheim came out in 1999, Warmaster in 2000 with an update including Kislev in 2006. Meanwhile, no updated army book or roster existed for Kislev. New units were created, but either as part of those games than codified roster. Any kind of presence Kislev had on the tabletop wasn't through the actual tabletop game itself. Like you said yourself, they were never an army book race.

    The point still stands that Old Warhammer with all it's design choices and factions don't exist anymore. What we're getting now is part of the Old World reboot, which is giving Kislev a full faction treatment.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,445
    from what we have seen so far i don't think warmaster matter one bit which could have been the reason for no Araby yet

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Cadia101Cadia101 Registered Users Posts: 1,400
    saweendra said:

    from what we have seen so far i don't think warmaster matter one bit which could have been the reason for no Araby yet

    Storm vermine with shields came straight up from warmaster.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,870
    edited May 2021
    Cadia101 said:

    saweendra said:

    from what we have seen so far i don't think warmaster matter one bit which could have been the reason for no Araby yet

    Storm vermine with shields came straight up from warmaster.
    Except that they have seemingly been used in Vermintide as well.... And having looked over existing materials, they technically had that weapon option and shield in the armybooks as well.



    Still, such a weapon variant is no better than any other number of weapon variants CA has already done.
    Furthermore, I consider that Daemon Prince must be removed.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,445
    Cadia101 said:

    saweendra said:

    from what we have seen so far i don't think warmaster matter one bit which could have been the reason for no Araby yet

    Storm vermine with shields came straight up from warmaster.
    yes but that is weapon varient CA could have just come up with it on their own and GW will have no issue with it,

    plus its sakven so there more than fair chance this is mentioned some ware in army book or white dwarf supplement

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,412

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    KN_Gars said:

    You are free to like and even love NuKislev as much as you want, more power to you in fact. But please stop making erronous statements OldKislev and what it was in order to justify your preference for NuKislev. There are those of us in this forum with decades of experience with OldKislev as it exististed in Warhammer and we will spot any incorrect claims very quickly indeed.

    And GW & CA could have expanded OldKislev just as easily as they created NuKislev, in fact a number of the units we have seen so far would have easily worked with both armies. The reason that NuKislev exists is not that it needed to be replaced for any of the reasons you claim. It is because GW wants designs that can be copyrighted and sold to be used in their current games.

    And the fact that for most of Fantasy Warhammer Kislev had a barebones roster with no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition. You're talking about an army that functionally stopped existing to GW.

    "OldKislev" is literally outdated and now non-canon with the Old World remake. It's just Kislev now, bears and all.
    Had you done more thorough research before making such definite statement you would have known that Kislev had content well after 4th edition. You had releases for Warmaster, Mordheim as well as the_6th_edition supplement for WFB which came together with new models for Kossars and Boris Ursus. And that is counting just the actual tabletop content produced by the GW studio. If we add in material produced by Black Library you have the RPG supplement as well as a number of novels, all released well after 4th edition.

    You may also want to read up on how GW does canon & retcons because they have a different view of canon than you.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were modules, not additions or expansions, the 6th Ed supplement was just that, a supplement that needed the Empire's roster and rules to work. Kislev never got the roster expansion and update almost every faction got; Bretonnia got more attention than Kislev ever did.

    It's not a debate on canon, it's a statement of fact that GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades. It never got a proper army book or roster well past it's implementation. What we're getting now would've likely appeared in 6th-8th edition Kislev.
    Warmaster and Mordheim were stand-alone games set in the Warhammer world, not 'modules'. Warmaster was designed for large scale battles different scale of miniatures than that used by WFB, it included a complete Kislev army list with the appropriate models. Mordheim used the same scale of figures as WFB and was indeed recomended by GW as a source for additional Kislev figures for WFB.

    Your claim was that Kislev had " no updates to its lore, units, characters, and art since at least fourth edition" when in fact they all of that. It has been proven false, now you claim that "GW stopped adding and updating content for Kislev for decades". Warhammer in it's classic form existed from 1993 (4th) to 2015 (8th), 22 years i.e a little over 2 decades, Kislev had content released from 1993 to 2007 i.e 14 years of the 22 so no Gw did not stop adding content to Kislev for decades. In fact for a non-army book race they got an unusual amount of content.

    We do know what we would have gotten in 6th edition Kislev, that is when we got
    Boris Ursus


    And the Kossars



    Not that similar to what we are getting now I would say.

    6th edition Warhammer was still a time when GW was still much into the historical aspect of the factions, the designers at the time would have reinforced the OldKislev style, not abandoned it.
    Modules and separate games are the same thing; isolated rosters and settings independent of the main one. Mordheim came out in 1999, Warmaster in 2000 with an update including Kislev in 2006. Meanwhile, no updated army book or roster existed for Kislev. New units were created, but either as part of those games than codified roster. Any kind of presence Kislev had on the tabletop wasn't through the actual tabletop game itself. Like you said yourself, they were never an army book race.

    The point still stands that Old Warhammer with all it's design choices and factions don't exist anymore. What we're getting now is part of the Old World reboot, which is giving Kislev a full faction treatment.
    Kislev got an updated roster in 6th edition WFB or more correctly it did get it's first independent WFB roster since it previously was part of the Empire army book. It did add new units and characters some of which I just posted pictures of. Prior to 6th edition the WFB units that Kislev had were the Winged Lancers, Ungol Horse Archers and the Ice Queen. With the 6th edition supplement they gained Gryphon Legion, Kossars, the Boyar hero and Boris Ursus. You will find them all in Warhammer Chronicle 2004 or in the Kislev supplement for WFB.

    So much for Kislev not having a presence in the actual tabletop game.

    The interesting question is why you are so focused on rewriting the history of Kislev as a faction in Warhammer Fantasy Battle as well as in Warhammer as a wider setting . If it does not exist any more it should not be any kind of threat or challenge?
    And also people gotta not confuse world building, you know, bring the world to life by referencing stuffs that isn't on the map, or is an event, to some kind of announcement, you know? That is certainly not the case.
    -Andy Hall, Principal Writer and Narrative Designer for Warhammer 3.
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,412
    saweendra said:



    again my man this is not 6 th edition GW team they have either gone away or retired or changed their views , this is the current GW.

    if you honestly didn't saw the writing on the wall of how fantastical they were going to be with ice guard than you were being way more optimistic

    hell as you have stated by the time of 8 th edition this is close to the type of kislev we would have seen.

    I am well aware of that, I was just responding to the false claim that the new Kislev is something that would have been added in 6th edition.

    Ice Guard was just one unit, the Gryphon legion concept art was closer to an updated 6th edition style than an all new style. Other than that we had very few hints about Kislev until the WH3 announcement trailer. And while that trailer clearly showed that Kislev was not going to have the visual style from WFB it did show us a grounded Kislev, we did see the Ice Guard and Katarin but their magical effects were toned down compared to what is in the game. Bear cav was something we all knew would come but the rest was archers, mounted archers, lancers and what we now know is Tzar Guard.
    Essentially a 6th edition WFB army with a few new units added.

    Compare that with the trailer the trailer today which gives a rather different impression, particularly when seen together with last weeks trailer. I would argue that the change between the two is almost as big as first being shown Bretonnia and then getting the Empire (assuming that both were shown in the same visual style)

    I have never stated that we would see the new kind of Kislev by 8th, 8th edition GW would not have made anything like the Kislev that just arrived since they were trying to get away from human figures. Kislev would have gotten an updated Katarin model based on the old art seen in Empire at War together with Bear Cav and an expensive cannon on a sled (without the ice) the rest would have been unchanged since GW would replace most of them with the new Eternal Ice Kossars in AoS (Stormcast Eternals just with lots of fur.)
    And also people gotta not confuse world building, you know, bring the world to life by referencing stuffs that isn't on the map, or is an event, to some kind of announcement, you know? That is certainly not the case.
    -Andy Hall, Principal Writer and Narrative Designer for Warhammer 3.
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180
    The ice part could be done better, but it's still a direct design choice from GW. The sled wouldn't work alone on solid ground anyway. It just need thinner, smoother ice.
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 17,445
    edited May 2021
    KN_Gars said:

    saweendra said:



    again my man this is not 6 th edition GW team they have either gone away or retired or changed their views , this is the current GW.

    if you honestly didn't saw the writing on the wall of how fantastical they were going to be with ice guard than you were being way more optimistic

    hell as you have stated by the time of 8 th edition this is close to the type of kislev we would have seen.

    I am well aware of that, I was just responding to the false claim that the new Kislev is something that would have been added in 6th edition.

    Ice Guard was just one unit, the Gryphon legion concept art was closer to an updated 6th edition style than an all new style. Other than that we had very few hints about Kislev until the WH3 announcement trailer. And while that trailer clearly showed that Kislev was not going to have the visual style from WFB it did show us a grounded Kislev, we did see the Ice Guard and Katarin but their magical effects were toned down compared to what is in the game. Bear cav was something we all knew would come but the rest was archers, mounted archers, lancers and what we now know is Tzar Guard.
    Essentially a 6th edition WFB army with a few new units added.

    Compare that with the trailer the trailer today which gives a rather different impression, particularly when seen together with last weeks trailer. I would argue that the change between the two is almost as big as first being shown Bretonnia and then getting the Empire (assuming that both were shown in the same visual style)

    I have never stated that we would see the new kind of Kislev by 8th, 8th edition GW would not have made anything like the Kislev that just arrived since they were trying to get away from human figures. Kislev would have gotten an updated Katarin model based on the old art seen in Empire at War together with Bear Cav and an expensive cannon on a sled (without the ice) the rest would have been unchanged since GW would replace most of them with the new Eternal Ice Kossars in AoS (Stormcast Eternals just with lots of fur.)
    does it matter though, this is the design of kislve their going for arguing on out dated army book edition or dead setting is pointless when the faction is going to draw from whole new game in the old world

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • joproulx99joproulx99 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,567
    I liked the old. but I also like the new, so its fine to me, great even!
    "Fear me mortals, for I am the Anointed, the favored Son of Chaos, the Scourge of the World. The armies of the gods rally behind me, and it is by my will and by my sword that your weakling nations shall fall."

    ~ Archaon, Lord of the End Times
  • KN_GarsKN_Gars Registered Users Posts: 2,412
    saweendra said:


    does it matter though, this is the design of kislve their going for arguing on out dated army book edition or dead setting is pointless when the faction is going to draw from whole new game in the old world

    Well the whole point of Warhammer Total War was using that 'dead setting' to make a game, why do you think that CA is still very careful to say that they will not include certain things. And when you saw that you will use that 'dead setting' then people tend to base their expectations on that, we saw that earlier with Daemons of Chaos vs Monogods though unlike NuKislev Monogod armies had been a thing in several editions of WFB.

    As for why I argue? For the same reason as I argued when GW blew up Warhammer with the End Times, to show that there is opposition to the choice that GW made. And while it did not change the End Times the backlash against AoS and the ET forced GW to make changes in how they treated their customers.

    I don't think that any protests now will lead to CA and GW changing their mind but perhaps we can get them to listen to some complaints. Such as at the very least improving the Ice effects so that they look less jaring, they stuck out like a sore thumb even on the snow map in todays trailer. Even better if the Ice was replaced with proper sled runners just like in the GW art.
    And also people gotta not confuse world building, you know, bring the world to life by referencing stuffs that isn't on the map, or is an event, to some kind of announcement, you know? That is certainly not the case.
    -Andy Hall, Principal Writer and Narrative Designer for Warhammer 3.
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