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I genuinely think this is a wise decision for CA, business wise

YANGXuYANGXu Registered Users Posts: 55
The retention rate is terrible, and a significant section of the playerbase that is still actively playing this game is from Asia, predominantly China I presume (You don't really need inside numebers, just check Steam online players for different time zones).

DLC model is still foreign to most average Chinese players. You know, the 'filthy casuals' who purchased the game thanks to marketing, peer pressure, and innocent enthusiasim for the setting. They played for a few hours and leave, and they never post on gaming forums (doubt if they even care to know any). They are the main purchasing power here. If CA ever made a 3k saga, these players would more than willing to pay for that, especially if it could be noticeably cheaper. Less input for great potential output, good business prospect.

Disclaimer: I do not hold a grudge against casual players. I am personally a hardhore strategy and RPG fan, but a total casual for quite a few other genres. It's definitely disheartening for me. But I think it's a great oppurtunity to remind the core community that CA is a big corporate, or at least part of one, operaing in a market economy, not your friendly neighbour's small business that you need to support in exchange for goods with love.

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Comments

  • Xenos777Xenos777 Registered Users Posts: 8,038
  • kaihookaihoo Registered Users Posts: 1,097
    CA's going backwards
  • Rewan#2358Rewan#2358 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,861
    Not really because you're alienating the most loyal base of players, which are typically the ones throwing flowers at a game prerelease.

    So it's actually really bad.
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,145
    Rewan said:

    Not really because you're alienating the most loyal base of players, which are typically the ones throwing flowers at a game prerelease.

    So it's actually really bad.

    The one's that don't play the game?

  • fan3982173917524862fan3982173917524862 Registered Users Posts: 1,584
    Amonkhet said:

    Rewan said:

    Not really because you're alienating the most loyal base of players, which are typically the ones throwing flowers at a game prerelease.

    So it's actually really bad.

    The one's that don't play the game?
    People that play the game for multiple playthroughs buy DLC and await updates.
    The people that only buy the base game are likely to only play 1 campaign or less and also only play custom battles a few times before moving on and never looking back.
    This game also had 0 MP support and was plagued with bugs and bad game design for a very long time, now forever until the next installment, if CA actually bothers to fix the issues.
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,145

    Amonkhet said:

    Rewan said:

    Not really because you're alienating the most loyal base of players, which are typically the ones throwing flowers at a game prerelease.

    So it's actually really bad.

    The one's that don't play the game?
    People that play the game for multiple playthroughs buy DLC and await updates.
    The people that only buy the base game are likely to only play 1 campaign or less and also only play custom battles a few times before moving on and never looking back.
    This game also had 0 MP support and was plagued with bugs and bad game design for a very long time, now forever until the next installment, if CA actually bothers to fix the issues.
    I'm not exactly blaming fans for it; but CA judges their DLC policy on how many people play the game over a long period. That's why Rome 2 received more DLC support than any other historical game and why Warhammer 2's massive player retention means its possible to keep a consistent DLC stream for it.

    The game's one interesting DLC came far too late to save it.

  • Rewan#2358Rewan#2358 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,861
    edited May 2021
    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707
    One issue here, the Chinese playerbase is on fire with rage and we aren't going to just forget this with a snap of a finger.

  • Rewan#2358Rewan#2358 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,861
    Just don't send funeral flowers to CA's office is all I ask.
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,306

    One issue here, the Chinese playerbase is on fire with rage and we aren't going to just forget this with a snap of a finger.

    Can you give me the lowdown on what they are saying. Could you link to their forums?
  • GettoGecko#7861GettoGecko#7861 Registered Users Posts: 1,684
    Rewan said:

    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    Enough people play the base game to justify a brand new game for the same audience. Not enough people bought new content to justify further developement. On ToB and Troy the plug was pulled a lot earlier so 3K is acutally viewed as success from CA.
    It might be true what the OP said and the 3K community just isn't used to DLC practice and what it means for further developement of a game like the western audience is normally alienated by gacha elements and in some western countries they are even illegal.

    So the players who like 3K will get more 3K games instead of DLCs so it might be a win-win for everybody or not, we will see what happens.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,306
    Rewan said:

    Just don't send funeral flowers to CA's office is all I ask.

    Is this something that happened?!?
  • Misaka_ComplexMisaka_Complex Registered Users Posts: 3,707

    One issue here, the Chinese playerbase is on fire with rage and we aren't going to just forget this with a snap of a finger.

    Can you give me the lowdown on what they are saying. Could you link to their forums?
    The link is already in my other thread where I posted about their July 2020 blog.

  • LESAMA#5456LESAMA#5456 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,191
    Ca stated that they would support 3k for a long time to make it the best it could be. They didn’t so enough reason for players who love the game and have supported ca on numerous occasions to be upset. Especially once they post a video and make it sound like good news. Just be frank about the reasons why and why it’s better to start from scratch. Imo ca’s next step should be an in-depth interview and explain why they did it and what we can expect for the future.
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,145
    Rewan said:

    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    Yeah. I don't know if the issue was that the game didn't connect enough with the Western Audience...but CA wouldn't cancel a game that was selling and doing really well.

    Irregardless of the reason of why fans stopped playing...some data they have showed them not enough people are playing to make the next DLC not sell at a loss. Its either that; or something is fundamentally broken in the game that requires a new game.

  • GettoGecko#7861GettoGecko#7861 Registered Users Posts: 1,684

    Rewan said:

    Just don't send funeral flowers to CA's office is all I ask.

    Is this something that happened?!?
    Is that something CA would care about would be the better question. I assume its some form of great insult in chinese culture but that doesn't mean its the same for other cultures. If someone would send some to me I would just put them in a vase, water them an remove the black band, they are flowers after all so why not just enjoy them?
    CA probably has a lot of rooms where some free flowers could find a place, to be annoying it would need more flowers than they have rooms to decorate with so it would costs thousands of ₤.
  • Bright_EyesBright_Eyes Registered Users Posts: 1,306

    Rewan said:

    Just don't send funeral flowers to CA's office is all I ask.

    Is this something that happened?!?
    Is that something CA would care about would be the better question. I assume its some form of great insult in chinese culture but that doesn't mean its the same for other cultures. If someone would send some to me I would just put them in a vase, water them an remove the black band, they are flowers after all so why not just enjoy them?
    CA probably has a lot of rooms where some free flowers could find a place, to be annoying it would need more flowers than they have rooms to decorate with so it would costs thousands of ₤.
    If someone sent me funeral flowers I'd be very disturbed.
  • FraminkelFraminkel Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 199
    I think I qualify as one of the players that hasn’t bought any dlc. I mislike dlc that does not contribute to the base game and there was a lot of that floatin around here. Furthermore, I am not that into China or the fantasy element of Romance.

    But then again, a new 3K2 is hardly going to attract me back. Unless it has some pretty unique new features. Then I’m all in.

    Would rather have liked an anouncement on ‘US civil war’,’WWI’ or ‘Medieval3’ (doubt that will happen as long as WH3 is still forthcoming)
  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member MichiganRegistered Users Posts: 919

    Rewan said:

    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    Enough people play the base game to justify a brand new game for the same audience. Not enough people bought new content to justify further developement. On ToB and Troy the plug was pulled a lot earlier so 3K is acutally viewed as success from CA.
    It might be true what the OP said and the 3K community just isn't used to DLC practice and what it means for further developement of a game like the western audience is normally alienated by gacha elements and in some western countries they are even illegal.

    So the players who like 3K will get more 3K games instead of DLCs so it might be a win-win for everybody or not, we will see what happens.
    What if people stopped playing TK because it has issues ?

    CA releases content that needs polish

    Polish does not occur

    People stop playing game because content needs polish / why start a new campaign when the next patch will just break it

    CA cans game

    It took 2 years before we finally got an attempt at unit balancing (cav/archers where extremely over powered) stuff like that is way more important then "wHeN iS kORea GEtTiNg AdDed?!?!?!" Adding more content to a game isn't going to keep people around when alot of what's there is broken or has issues.

    Guess it doesn't really matter now though huh?
  • Djau#5149Djau#5149 Registered Users Posts: 12,145

    Rewan said:

    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    Enough people play the base game to justify a brand new game for the same audience. Not enough people bought new content to justify further developement. On ToB and Troy the plug was pulled a lot earlier so 3K is acutally viewed as success from CA.
    It might be true what the OP said and the 3K community just isn't used to DLC practice and what it means for further developement of a game like the western audience is normally alienated by gacha elements and in some western countries they are even illegal.

    So the players who like 3K will get more 3K games instead of DLCs so it might be a win-win for everybody or not, we will see what happens.
    What if people stopped playing TK because it has issues ?

    CA releases content that needs polish

    Polish does not occur

    People stop playing game because content needs polish / why start a new campaign when the next patch will just break it

    CA cans game

    It took 2 years before we finally got an attempt at unit balancing (cav/archers where extremely over powered) stuff like that is way more important then "wHeN iS kORea GEtTiNg AdDed?!?!?!" Adding more content to a game isn't going to keep people around when alot of what's there is broken or has issues.

    Guess it doesn't really matter now though huh?
    Thats the crux of the issue. DLCs released weren't great; it didnt keep players around and then they had to can the game because of it.

    If the game originally didnt sell well, CA would be dropping Three Kingdoms era completely.

  • dracezhandracezhan Registered Users Posts: 59
    Rewan said:

    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    This was how it was for me tbh. Every time a new DLC came out, I'd literally play it for half an hour and then give up till the next patch because of how many things would get broken mysteriously. In fact more often than not, I'd binge off large bug fix patches. I imagine, if CA was looking at data in the wrong way and evaluate similar players to me, they'd attribute it to the DLC's not being popular - which is true but that's due to a lack of quality rather than lack of interest.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    How's nuking your reputation on the Chinese market thoroughly a "wise" decision?
  • RyantheFettRyantheFett Registered Users Posts: 50
    I am in the wait and see category since I will view this new game as a $60 DLC. If the game was killed by the higher ups then is may be the last chance for us to get anything 3K related for total war.

    At this point I am making my checklist for all the new features that they will have to do in order for me to buy this new game.

    If anything I am more scared that they will try something strange or underwhelming. The base game is so good, sacred what will happen next.
  • Qin_FengQin_Feng Registered Users Posts: 399
    I can understand no more dlcs as a wise decision, but CA has instead pulled the plug on the game completely and abruptly and they slapped us across the face with a pitiful 5% discount and some ambiguous video that has incedibly confusing wording on it.
  • Rewan#2358Rewan#2358 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,861

    Rewan said:

    Just don't send funeral flowers to CA's office is all I ask.

    Is this something that happened?!?
    Not with CA no. (AFAIK at least)

    But I seemingly recall that happening to a Chinese LoL player. Also to a Korean team (T1). Which cemented in my mind that Chinese and Koreans fanboys can be absolutely insane. Moreso than European/American fanboys. :cold_sweat:
    _________________________________

    My personal collection of hazardous tests and quickfixes (yes this is a link).
    Wondering why you get some traits on your characters this may give you a vague idea

    Balance enthusiast, I like tinkering and messing with stuff and values. Cool heads prevails !
  • Sve93Sve93 Registered Users Posts: 3
    I've also had breaks from the game or factions to wait for more serious/annoying bugs to be patched.

    A friend of mine who also bought the game on launch stopped playing the game after a while because of bugs. He asked me around that time something like "Do you still play the game? I felt it got more broken with every DLC"

    Latest break for me was after the newest DLC, but more about balancing. I did a playthrough on new start date with Zheng Jiang and started Ma Teng next, but 40-50 turns in Cao Cao hit me with his -20 food scheme. Being on the north western plains I had so little food to spare in the early game my options were:

    - Downgrading all my cities so they used no food, but with it most of the buildings I had built so far in the campaign and maybe I would have food to break even
    - Losing my population in all cities and having riots everywhere
    - Quitting the campaign and hoping next one I would be lucky and not get hit by that particular scheme

    I chose the last one, but ended up taking a break instead of starting over. Been hoping they would dial back some of his newest schemes a bit, but it seems they are here to stay as is.

    Another problem that bothered me, I think since the newest DLC, is that what feels like 80% of my gate pass battles have to be autoresolved because the game crashes if I try to start manual battle. Don't know if that is still a thing since I took a break, but it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes for latest bugfix.

    The game being more broken as time goes on is my biggest problem with this game and now apparently the game is finished.
  • ComradCommodoreComradCommodore Senior Member MichiganRegistered Users Posts: 919
    Amonkhet said:

    Rewan said:

    The one's that don't play the game?


    Except people played the game. The biggest reason people didn't want to play the game was the longstanding issues with the game (bugs & balance problems) - that couldn't be fixed with the snail pace patching process.

    I mean it's part of the reason on why there's such an uproar, people played this game, other people WANTED to play this game and were just waiting for a better quality experience. But now the game is forever stuck in limbo
    Enough people play the base game to justify a brand new game for the same audience. Not enough people bought new content to justify further developement. On ToB and Troy the plug was pulled a lot earlier so 3K is acutally viewed as success from CA.
    It might be true what the OP said and the 3K community just isn't used to DLC practice and what it means for further developement of a game like the western audience is normally alienated by gacha elements and in some western countries they are even illegal.

    So the players who like 3K will get more 3K games instead of DLCs so it might be a win-win for everybody or not, we will see what happens.
    What if people stopped playing TK because it has issues ?

    CA releases content that needs polish

    Polish does not occur

    People stop playing game because content needs polish / why start a new campaign when the next patch will just break it

    CA cans game

    It took 2 years before we finally got an attempt at unit balancing (cav/archers where extremely over powered) stuff like that is way more important then "wHeN iS kORea GEtTiNg AdDed?!?!?!" Adding more content to a game isn't going to keep people around when alot of what's there is broken or has issues.

    Guess it doesn't really matter now though huh?
    Thats the crux of the issue. DLCs released weren't great; it didnt keep players around and then they had to can the game because of it.

    If the game originally didnt sell well, CA would be dropping Three Kingdoms era completely.
    It's their own fault though. World Betrayed got one patch didn't it? ONE

    Then we had like, 6-8 months of silence? Then fates divided?

    No one made CA stay silent and not patch their game except CA. You put out broken content then don't fix it, it's your own fault.

    What about all of this leads them to believe Three Kingdoms fans are going to just buy up another Three Kingdoms game? Why would any of us
  • YANGXuYANGXu Registered Users Posts: 55

    One issue here, the Chinese playerbase is on fire with rage and we aren't going to just forget this with a snap of a finger.

    This is not an issue. The loud ones might be on rage, but the silent mass are just indifferent. Only a fraction of the Chinese players who bought the game at release actually follow the DLC development. Only a fraction of those players actually follow the news and are care enough or angry enough to rage out on forums. Ironically, only a fraction of those people would actually carry on their rage and threat refusing to buy 3k saga or whatever will come later. So all in all, not a big deal.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    YANGXu said:

    One issue here, the Chinese playerbase is on fire with rage and we aren't going to just forget this with a snap of a finger.

    This is not an issue. The loud ones might be on rage, but the silent mass are just indifferent. Only a fraction of the Chinese players who bought the game at release actually follow the DLC development. Only a fraction of those players actually follow the news and are care enough or angry enough to rage out on forums. Ironically, only a fraction of those people would actually carry on their rage and threat refusing to buy 3k saga or whatever will come later. So all in all, not a big deal.
    Please present the extensive market research you are basing this on.
  • YANGXuYANGXu Registered Users Posts: 55
    edited May 2021


    I thought this was supposed to be common sense. As for the detailed market research, well, apparently people from CA who get paid doing this have already done it.

    If you want rough numebers. Go to Bilibili, check the announcement video, and count the total views. Comapare that with sales in China. They simply don't have the same number of digits.

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