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Champions of Chaos: N’kari

Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 5,522
edited December 2021 in General Discussion
Lets start with the obvious here: N’kari never had rules in WHFB and never a miniature. In fact we had no special character "Keeper of Secrets" in 8 editions, so while we could pull some other lore names for a KoS slot, N’kari is probably still the most famous lore blurb and most likely to happen. And now lets dive into what we have.


A normal KoS

is a monster on foot, which is as fast as light cav. He has a very good profile, making him pretty good in melee. And he is a wizard with Lore of Shadow/Slaanesh to help out. Pimped with a good weapon and some good demonic gifts, this Greater Daemon is not to be underestimated. In fact, equipped with the lash

he was actually pretty feared in TT. Fast enough to avoid combat while still be able to come close enough to unleash hell in the shooting phase. N’kari should probably at least be on the standard KoS level. Maybe a bit above in some profile stats.

For starters, N’kari had rules in Wahammer 40k 2nd edition.

Which obviously does not help us that much for WHFB.

N’kari and (High) Elves have a established history. With friggin elven timelines and some retcons over the GW decades in several editions, it is hard to navigate things. But I gather this is what we should take away.
Generic history lesson.

Woodelves armybook 8th edition places N'kari into Avelorn during that time,

Some time later Aenarion apparently slew N'kari in whatever battle, as briefly mentioned in the HE 5th armybook.

In the later stages of that war, Aenarion grabbed the Sword of Khaine and fought four Greater Daemons, while Caledor was preparing the Vortex spells to banish all Daemons at once.

The Keeper of Secrets here, was N'kari. Again. As the novel "Blood of Aenarion" points out while also making certain that the battle of Korumel is covered.

Which gives us two points to cover. First, during that bit it is "beautiful womens laugh" for N'kari. While determining a gender on a KoS migth be a bit fiddicult, it is still worth mentioning. The other part is with confirming that it is N'kari, so the artwork of Aenarions fight gives us a depiction of it.




2173 IC, N’kari returns
DoC, 7th

DoC, 8th


If the artwork with the KoS here is just a generic one, or shall be N'kari in a "new" form is not stated and open to interpretation.

Around 2302 IC starts the "Age of Vengenace" where Malekith invades Ulthuan. This is from DE 8th armybook

HE 4th armybook

Woodelves 8th, interlinked here a sidestory to that encounter.


Around 2452 IC, N’kari attacks Naggarond to claim the Witch Kings soul (DE 8th armybook)


In the Tyrion & Teclis novel

there seems to be some interactive talk between Malekith and N’kari.


We had this demonic gift item in DoC 8th armybook


N’kari was a boss battle in Warhammer Online:Age of Reckoning


TWW wise, we have two epilogue texts directly mentioning it.




And that seems to be it.
The artwork of Aenarion does implicate the classic "cow" direction for a KoS which was around from 3-8th edition.


While the picture of the 8th DoC armybook, which still might not be N'kari himself, and the WAR model are using the Forgeworld KoS miniature.

GW with AoS has now a new KoS model, while afaik they did not dig up N'kari but rather created their own new special chars, it is unknown if the new Daemon design will now flow back toward TWW3 and shape a new form, or if CA maybe goes oldskool here while spicing the details up themselves.


But will N’kari appear in TWW3? The Vortex epilogues certainly point into that direction. While he could be just a story device for some cutscenes, guiding whomever might be picked as Slaanesh LL, the theory of the four Chaos faction LLs being all greater Daemons, is still alluring.
Gameplay wise it is hard to speculate what to expect, since we have no TT special rules covering N’kari and maybe giving it an agenda. Obviously he hates Aenarions bloodline and elves in general. Above lore shows he crossed path with some special characters who are already included in TWW. So some rivalry/gameplay mechanics could be woven around that. While Ulthuan probably not will be featured on the campaign map, in (Im)Mortal Empires he could have certain victory goals centered around burning Ulthuan to the ground. Slaaneshs theme with corruption, seduction and an drive for excess could peddle in different ways but I don't know if some special gameplay mechanic could be build around it. From the expected 4+1 Chaos LLs, the Slaanesh one might prove to be one of the more surprising ones. May it be N’kari or not.


Similar Topics
Champions of Undivided

Champions of Khorne

Champions of Tzeentch

Champions of Nurgle

Champions of Slaanesh

------Red Dox
Post edited by Red_Dox on
«13

Comments

  • BiesBies Junior Member SwedenRegistered Users Posts: 4,636
    I want this model


    "I shivered at the sight of her - her beauty far beyond that of mortal man. But her soul glowed with an inner darkness that chilled my very core."









  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,693
    some shameless self shilling on a topic on the same character :tongue:

    Just for fun. How do you think N'kari should sound?

    I'd say Tim Curry in the style of Emperor Doviculus, maybe with an added female Echo


    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290713/nkaris-voice/p1?new=1
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 13,211
    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,693
    Neodeinos said:

    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.
    her?





    N'kari seems to be primarily male identified.
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 13,211

    Neodeinos said:

    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.
    her?





    N'kari seems to be primarily male identified.
    Yeah whatever, it's Slaanesh both her and him works.

  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,803
    The Witstealer Sword is already in-game, I've seen it once or twice, it's actually pretty decent a weapon, unlike the Fellblade that doesn't do much of anything when you equip it.

    I've wondered if the latter, and it's history with Nagash, might point towards how a certain Grey Seer makes his debut.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • Grimm123Grimm123 Registered Users Posts: 131
    Neodeinos said:

    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.
    i prefer the new AoS Model that we will most likely get. Just because the old one looks too feminine while it should appear genderless.

  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,522

    Neodeinos said:

    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.
    her?





    N'kari seems to be primarily male identified.
    Probably depends on the author of whatever book. I struggled myself while typing with his gender, since I also tended more to "him" but it is not really certain with Slaanesh Daemons ^^
    The Aenarion novel text for example rather uses "it", which is probably more fitting.
    Bies said:

    I want this model

    Ah, that reminded me: We also had the Chaosbane model which had most parts of the Forgeworld Keeper, but then the Hentai face from the old metal one. And less ****.
    https://vk.com/video-55606947_456239547

    -----Red Dox
  • NeodeinosNeodeinos Registered Users Posts: 13,211
    Grimm123 said:

    Neodeinos said:

    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.
    i prefer the new AoS Model that we will most likely get. Just because the old one looks too feminine while it should appear genderless.
    Just slap the half pecs and half tiddies on the Forgeworld model.

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,693
    Red_Dox said:

    Neodeinos said:

    Bies said:

    I want this model

    That's exactly what I was going to post. I really love this model and I think using that model for N'kari would help make her unique as the Greater Daemons aren't really aesthetically different between the generic one and the named one.
    her?





    N'kari seems to be primarily male identified.
    Probably depends on the author of whatever book. I struggled myself while typing with his gender, since I also tended more to "him" but it is not really certain with Slaanesh Daemons ^^
    The Aenarion novel text for example rather uses "it", which is probably more fitting.
    Bies said:

    I want this model

    Ah, that reminded me: We also had the Chaosbane model which had most parts of the Forgeworld Keeper, but then the Hentai face from the old metal one. And less ****.
    https://vk.com/video-55606947_456239547

    -----Red Dox
    "It" could also be used in the context of "The Daemon", or to emphasize that it's not an actual lving being and just some horrible monster. "It is dehumanizing" is a trope.
    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,693
    edited May 2021
    Oh, btw.



    that one's in the game. It's an Item you can get with the WE iirc. Massive Chaos Corruption but great stats.


    #RIP BORIS! KILLED BY CA AND GW WITH SHORTSIGHTED CRUELTY JUST TO SHOVE KOSTALTYN DOWN OUR THROATS!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • KillertutKillertut Registered Users Posts: 719

    Oh, btw.



    that one's in the game. It's an Item you can get with the WE iirc. Massive Chaos Corruption but great stats.


    correct: https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Witstealer_Sword

    i equiped drycha with that sword in my playthorugh with her :)
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,522
    edited May 2021
    Arsenic said:

    The Witstealer Sword is already in-game, I've seen it once or twice, it's actually pretty decent a weapon, unlike the Fellblade that doesn't do much of anything when you equip it.

    I've wondered if the latter, and it's history with Nagash, might point towards how a certain Grey Seer makes his debut.



    Kinda funny that the Woodelves with T&T got the Witstealer sword. Because in tabletop it was a weapon from the DoC 8th armybook, so nobody else had access to it. Just Daemons over their their "random" table [weapons were category zero, so every bought throw on a table could get switched for the zero result. Which meant weapons at least were a sure thing for characters].



    I kinda expected that the game#3 daemons will not get "demonic gifts" like in TT but rather generic magical items to use like everybody for a shared loot table. But I kinda did expect that weapons of the Dark Gods would at least only be around for Chaos races ;) Ah well, another question around the new Chaos races which hopefully will one day be answered.

    -----Red Dox
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    So I guess the voice thing is settled ? ;)

    I'm a bit reserved about him/her, let's say it. Because N'kari with all its interactions with other characters and this tidbits in TWW2, kinda sounds more like a foil to others than someone playable, in a way. Plus the whole never got rules.

    We have no idea which graphical style will be used for the KoS. But the latest is my preferred.

    That one is kinda ugly for me. It screams of having female/male bits unbalanced, and the old corny Slaanesh accessories (leather legging with pikes, yeahhhh) I admit I like new more elegant direction.



    I know the whole lore about slaneeshi daemons is how they are seductive through scent, illustions, yadda yadda, but at somet point the visuals should support the lore at least a bit.

    So we don't know yet what a normal KoS will look like and N'Kari doesn't have any indication of how it will differ from a normal KoS. Same for the rules. We can expect a seductivness aura and things of the kind but it's neither very active nor different from what a normal KoS will do. (Skarbrand otoh is supposed to make both friend and foe battle crazed, that's quite spectacular)




  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,522
    edited May 2021
    uriak said:


    So we don't know yet what a normal KoS will look like and N'Kari doesn't have any indication of how it will differ from a normal KoS.

    Well, from the first trailer people assume it will be the new AoS model.
    Then we had this here

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/3dVVGv
    which imo is perfect for Slaangors but ass ugly for a KoS. Looks like Krampus is running around to punish children. So fingers crossed that we might have some model and head variety...
    If that would end up to be N'kari, then good night sweet prince. I might never touch you.

    ------Red Dox
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    The link is named keeper of secrets... and it fits the game trailer. So seems that’s the direction taken . :confused:
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 5,271
    I really hope they don't go with the new Keeper of Secrets model as the base design for N'kari. They don't look obviously demonic, they look like biologically plausible aliens. Nothing screams unnatural abomination from beyond the void about them, unlike the other three greater daemons which do. The old FW model does that however, it's humanoid but it's design is obviously unnatural, asymmetrical, alluring features and obvious horror monster bits but smack dab in the uncanny valley overall. The new KoS will need a lot of work to hit all those marks.

    @TheGuardianOfMetal you've got good taste in games mate.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed, Shadow King
    Me when I see a LL character implemented as a LH.

    Bring naval battles to Warhammer CA!

  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    The only way I can understand the cow/ram head is in reference of some demon figures from the medieval /renaissance depictions.

    You may want otherworldy KoS, but if they are without any elegant features I don't see the point of them being Slaaneshi daemons. They could be as well from Tzeench, the god of raw chaos. There are elegant creatures that aren't that human like to take inspiration from. It's a matter of taste of course.


  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,046
    Aye, FW's KoS would fit N'Kari the best. It has six eyes. The sacred number of Slaanesh.

    I'm in awe of AoR model. Everything about it is just right. It's such a... shapely design.


    Link to Cockersell's(FW's miniature artist) artstation page: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/A960d5



    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    I was perusing the fan made 9th edition of Daemon of Chaos and the main special character for slaanesh was Shalaxi Helbane. He is more likely to be the one, since he had rules and model ?
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,522
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,296
    We know that the new model of the keeper of secrets is going to be added to the game:




    So anyone that thinks that N'Kari is going to be anything else besides a small variation of this model, hasn't followed the WH3 development and doesn't know how CA works.


    I mean, the only reason we got the Coatl is that it reuses cathay dragon animations.
  • OddzillaOddzilla Registered Users Posts: 351
    I want my daemons to look like badass monsters. This is what N'kari should look like:



    Not this:



    I dunno what the whole goat vibe is about, but it's definitely not an improvement.
  • Lord_ZarkovLord_Zarkov Registered Users Posts: 826
    Based on Khorne and Tzeentch, I very much suspect we will get one KoS body, with limb and head differences between the three types and maybe some new clothing for N’kari.

    Hopefully their appearance will be based on the old drawing vs Aenarion or the FW model.
  • Lord_ZarkovLord_Zarkov Registered Users Posts: 826

    Based on Khorne and Tzeentch, I very much suspect we will get one KoS body, with limb and head differences between the three types and maybe some new clothing for N’kari.

    I expect the base to be based on the current model.

    Hopefully N’kari’s differences in appearance will be based on the old drawing vs Aenarion or the FW model.

  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 1,834
    Red_Dox said:

    While browsing through the net in search of something else, I stumbled upon this

    [SNIP]

    Imo a quite good job on sculpting and painting.

    -----Red Dox

    I know people really like the Forgeworld KoS model, but I do hope that N'Kari looks like that original piece of art.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 14,150
    uriak said:

    I was perusing the fan made 9th edition of Daemon of Chaos and the main special character for slaanesh was Shalaxi Helbane. He is more likely to be the one, since he had rules and model ?

    Yeah, and according to the fanmade 9th ed we'll get Dragon Emperor Pu-Yi as the main LL for Cathay....

    Shalaxi Helbane is an AoS character who never appeared in Fantasy, The Keeper of Secrets with highest relevance in Warhammer Fantasy is N'kari.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,296
    Crossil said:

    uriak said:

    I was perusing the fan made 9th edition of Daemon of Chaos and the main special character for slaanesh was Shalaxi Helbane. He is more likely to be the one, since he had rules and model ?

    Yeah, and according to the fanmade 9th ed we'll get Dragon Emperor Pu-Yi as the main LL for Cathay....

    Shalaxi Helbane is an AoS character who never appeared in Fantasy, The Keeper of Secrets with highest relevance in Warhammer Fantasy is N'kari.
    Plus, like half of the WH2 campaigns point at him making an appearance.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,522
    And now we know.

    Oldskool enough to work for me :)
    Question now would be what the Exalted KoS (probably that ugly Krampus AoS design) will be, and then the generic KoS.

    ------Red Dox
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