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Hope Cathay doesn't gets all the attention and budget

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  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 31,194
    Eth3ryas said:

    Come on man, there are 6 factions. You cannot get everything for the mono gods. I just hope the Great Unclean One is a lot bigger than the crappy bloodthirster and very tanky and I am happy (hoping for 5k+ cost).

    I like the Bloodthirster. It's not supposed to be enormous. It's supposed to be a giant flying, killing machine. And it is. I think they're probably the highlight of it so far.

    5K cost for a GUO would mean it'd never, ever be used. They're damage tanks, but ultimately there's only so much value in a melee monster, even when they're a caster.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

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  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 7,233
    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 31,194
    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.

    Pretty much.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

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  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BayesBayes Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,154
    edited June 9
    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.


    That is not even close to true, look at the units we have seen so far, there is no way khorne is half a kislev. It just does not make any sence.
    If you see this lost little fellow please help him find his way home.
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,707
    I doubt they will get much play time from me but I will love the additional trade partners whenever I play another order faction.

    Team Vampire Counts

    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 7,233
    Bayes said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.


    That is not even close to true, look at the units we have seen so far, there is no way khorne is half a kislev. It just does not make any sence.
    2 + 2 = 4
    Campaign Management is for suckers.

  • BayesBayes Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,154
    Surge_2 said:

    Bayes said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.


    That is not even close to true, look at the units we have seen so far, there is no way khorne is half a kislev. It just does not make any sence.
    2 + 2 = 4
    There is more to a race than their LLs lol.
    If you see this lost little fellow please help him find his way home.
  • RowdyRowdy Registered Users Posts: 58
    Maybe they canceled 3K so that people would have to buy warhammer 3 for their China fix?
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,656
    edited June 9
    Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cathay roster ends up being the lowest cost one. Simply because making anything for it is costlier by comparison with any other race. This isn't really a flex, as much as just an observation of previous design choices.

    Like how you have your Kislev now, right? The solution to missing core roster seems to be "add more bears". I mean, sure, you have War Sleds, Little Grom and Elemental Bear, but that is equivalent to Khorne's Bloodthirsters, Skull Cannon and Blood Thrones. It barely matches up, and all three of them have/are bears. Guess you can count the Snow Leopard, in which case Flesh Hounds.

    And you can look at the past 2 "innovative" examples from previous two games. Norsca pandered the roster quite a bit, with just "icy" units. Nowadays, it's the smallest roster around, thanks to it being a rare race pack, but overall it wasn't that innovative with its base roster. Marauders and that's about it.

    Then you have Vampire Coast who, yeah, had some nice ideas. But innovation was more or less limited to the Depth Guard and weapon variants. And I mean, how many weapon options does the Gunnery Mob have? How about 4? Pistols, Handguns, Bombs and shotguns. And then Deck Droppers got 3 out of 4 of those as well. I guess you could, in a way, count the Prometheans as they didn't have models to my knowledge, but that's about it.

    So what exactly do you people expect from Cathay? That it's gonna have loads of high fantasy elements? Nah, man. They will be cutting corners with it like they had with basically every race, especially the ones that didn't have extensive rosters.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 31,194
    Rowdy said:

    Maybe they canceled 3K so that people would have to buy warhammer 3 for their China fix?

    That's not how that works ...
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, Greater Demon of the Ogre Kingdoms, Teller of Truths, Enemy of Lies, Emperor of a lost Empire

  • Fingolfin_the-GoldenFingolfin_the-Golden Registered Users Posts: 2,139
    endikux said:

    "The China Market" as a topic is a silly thing.

    Game companies shouldn't chase the China Market by trying to cater directly to the Chinese people or most especially not to the Chinese government. It's dumb and it won't work. Just make good content and people there will either like it or they won't like it. Just like people anywhere. Because people are people wherever they are.

    They've done this in Hollywood with laughable results. When they try and cater directly to China with movies like Mulan, they bomb. And then other movies that are just normal movies will be successful because they are simply fun and well made.

    Chinese people don't need to "see themselves" in a game in order to enjoy it. That's frankly insulting.

    Cathay is a perfect example. It's always been interesting to Warhammer fans because it's another cool part of the world. So just make it cool. Just like many of us want to see Araby because it's another fun idea and builds the world even further.

    We are Warhammer Fans, not English Warhammer Fans, American Warhammer Fans, and Chinese Warhammer fans.

    Developers should stop listening to the suits in meeting rooms and just focus on "is the game fun."

    Shhh... geographic realism fans don’t like to hear this.
    🧝‍♀️
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 1,242
    Bayes said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.


    That is not even close to true, look at the units we have seen so far, there is no way khorne is half a kislev. It just does not make any sence.
    I mean have you seen those khorne spawn? They are literally beastmen spawn colored red. It doesn't exactly feel like CA put 100% into that.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,999
    This thread is such bait.
  • BayesBayes Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,154

    Bayes said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay + Kislev = Monos.

    It's not difficult people.


    That is not even close to true, look at the units we have seen so far, there is no way khorne is half a kislev. It just does not make any sence.
    I mean have you seen those khorne spawn? They are literally beastmen spawn colored red. It doesn't exactly feel like CA put 100% into that.
    No they did not put 100% into the chaos spawn, but that is not representative of the rest of the units we have seen so far.
    If you see this lost little fellow please help him find his way home.
  • talonntalonn Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,593

    Because of china market.

    For a sequel title i am not seeing the big improvements,and khorne roster(mono-god) seem fairly low budget.

    Give mono-gods same amount of love,not just little state change and frenzy and normal re--texturing/modelling.

    I hope i am proven wrong,but not seeing it as of now.

    Lol we will see... we will see...
  • talonntalonn Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,593
    endikux said:

    "The China Market" as a topic is a silly thing.

    Game companies shouldn't chase the China Market by trying to cater directly to the Chinese people or most especially not to the Chinese government. It's dumb and it won't work. Just make good content and people there will either like it or they won't like it. Just like people anywhere. Because people are people wherever they are.

    They've done this in Hollywood with laughable results. When they try and cater directly to China with movies like Mulan, they bomb. And then other movies that are just normal movies will be successful because they are simply fun and well made.

    Chinese people don't need to "see themselves" in a game in order to enjoy it. That's frankly insulting.

    Cathay is a perfect example. It's always been interesting to Warhammer fans because it's another cool part of the world. So just make it cool. Just like many of us want to see Araby because it's another fun idea and builds the world even further.

    We are Warhammer Fans, not English Warhammer Fans, American Warhammer Fans, and Chinese Warhammer fans.

    Developers should stop listening to the suits in meeting rooms and just focus on "is the game fun."

    I find this ironic, esp with the announcement of 3K few years back. I remembered many westerners immediately denounced 3K total war, just because they couldnt play western factions (aka Medieval 3)
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,209
    edited June 10

    Cathay is wild car. But I expect it receiving more love than the demons, yes. After all, monos It's four different races sharing a common core of marauders and chaos warriors. Obviously, a lot of units being reused, recoloured or reskinned was to be expected.


  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,873
    talonn said:

    endikux said:

    "The China Market" as a topic is a silly thing.

    Game companies shouldn't chase the China Market by trying to cater directly to the Chinese people or most especially not to the Chinese government. It's dumb and it won't work. Just make good content and people there will either like it or they won't like it. Just like people anywhere. Because people are people wherever they are.

    They've done this in Hollywood with laughable results. When they try and cater directly to China with movies like Mulan, they bomb. And then other movies that are just normal movies will be successful because they are simply fun and well made.

    Chinese people don't need to "see themselves" in a game in order to enjoy it. That's frankly insulting.

    Cathay is a perfect example. It's always been interesting to Warhammer fans because it's another cool part of the world. So just make it cool. Just like many of us want to see Araby because it's another fun idea and builds the world even further.

    We are Warhammer Fans, not English Warhammer Fans, American Warhammer Fans, and Chinese Warhammer fans.

    Developers should stop listening to the suits in meeting rooms and just focus on "is the game fun."

    I find this ironic, esp with the announcement of 3K few years back. I remembered many westerners immediately denounced 3K total war, just because they couldnt play western factions (aka Medieval 3)
    Dude that was like 4 people.
    MarcusLivius: You are indeed a lord of entitlement.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,440
    We have yet to see 3 daemons factions. They could helf up against others, but for the number of launch LL. Even so, it will be quite crowded up in the north - and we have yet to see how their rivalry would work : will chaos wastes or even realms be expanded enough for them to have to time to fight each other ?

    All considered, the 4 gods (+ whatever BM and WoC updates come with them) are very likely to represent half the work of the future game, or not. Making them work is important for the whole campaign to make any sense. The vortex race, even though it had themed questes and blurbs was a bit of symmetric affait between the four game 2 cores. This can't be the case here. Cathay + Kislev can't share campaign objectives and dynamics with the chaos factions.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 13,656
    edited June 10
    Pocman said:


    Cathay is wild car. But I expect it receiving more love than the demons, yes. After all, monos It's four different races sharing a common core of marauders and chaos warriors. Obviously, a lot of units being reused, recoloured or reskinned was to be expected.


    And Kislev is your usual core of basic humans that's shared with others like Bretonnia and Empire. And Cathay might be the same as well. I wonder if CA might end up just snagging the Rocket Battery from the Empire, or Dragons from other races.

    I mean, you can look at Kislev to see just how much it and Cathay get in comparison with Monogods. And Kislev really doesn't have that much more than Khorne, looking at revealed rosters. I mean, what exactly does Kislev have? Once you go beyond the basic infantry and cavalry, you get to the big hitters like War Sleds, Little Grom, Elemental Bear, War Bear Riders, maybe you can count Kislev's lores of magic? in comparison to Bloodthirsters, Skull Cannon, Blood Thrones, Juggernauts, and so on.

    And Khorne still missing Slaughterbrute, Soul Grinder and Khornate Daemon Princes. Probably DLC material but it's possible some of these still get added on release.

    To me, aside from the one extra LL(although Skarbrand definitely looks more demanding to make model wise) Kislev and Khorne feel like they are neck to neck in development, except maybe Kislev being slightly ahead. Khorne has some more reskins or recolours(but then, how many variants do Tzar Guard have? like, 5?), but leads on big hitters which feel much more diverse in design compared to Kislev. I don't really feel it's that bad. And Khorne, between the four gods, is the weakest roster wise aside from maybe Slaanesh.

    I guess we're gonna have to see just what they do with the other 3, but I expect the others to be on par or better than Khorne. And Cathay to not be much more, either.

    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 31,194

    talonn said:

    endikux said:

    "The China Market" as a topic is a silly thing.

    Game companies shouldn't chase the China Market by trying to cater directly to the Chinese people or most especially not to the Chinese government. It's dumb and it won't work. Just make good content and people there will either like it or they won't like it. Just like people anywhere. Because people are people wherever they are.

    They've done this in Hollywood with laughable results. When they try and cater directly to China with movies like Mulan, they bomb. And then other movies that are just normal movies will be successful because they are simply fun and well made.

    Chinese people don't need to "see themselves" in a game in order to enjoy it. That's frankly insulting.

    Cathay is a perfect example. It's always been interesting to Warhammer fans because it's another cool part of the world. So just make it cool. Just like many of us want to see Araby because it's another fun idea and builds the world even further.

    We are Warhammer Fans, not English Warhammer Fans, American Warhammer Fans, and Chinese Warhammer fans.

    Developers should stop listening to the suits in meeting rooms and just focus on "is the game fun."

    I find this ironic, esp with the announcement of 3K few years back. I remembered many westerners immediately denounced 3K total war, just because they couldnt play western factions (aka Medieval 3)
    Dude that was like 4 people.
    With Cathay or 3K there's always an element of that particular brand of toxicity hovering around. A very small element shunned by literally the entire rest of the forum.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, Greater Demon of the Ogre Kingdoms, Teller of Truths, Enemy of Lies, Emperor of a lost Empire

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 15,505
    User name checks out , and obviously khorne where is the love?

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 10,968
    I think there is a valid point to be made that the amount of budget that a given race has isn't something you'd judge by how many reskins/remodels they get, but on how many unique complex models that were made specifically for that race they receive (looks pointedly at High Elves).

    With what we do know of Cathay, I'm not convinced that there's really anything in the existing lore that is likely to be THAT expensive to make. Temple Dogs will probably be reasonably close to existing rigs. Crowmen will probably have a similar rig to the like of Harpies and Furies. Kirin are basically fancy horses. Cathayan dragons could be anything from a remodel of existing dragons to a completely new expensive model depending on how CA and GW interpret them. Most of it is probably still going to be humanoid (clay or otherwise) or war machines that are reasonably simply to animate.

    Now, we don't know what GW and CA might have up their proverbial sleeves for Cathay that was never hinted at, but I think there's a good chance that the Chaos stuff is still going to involve a larger budget in modelling and animation even in the most minimalistic projections, however many reskins there are.
  • united84united84 Registered Users Posts: 1,078
    Draxynnic said:

    I think there is a valid point to be made that the amount of budget that a given race has isn't something you'd judge by how many reskins/remodels they get, but on how many unique complex models that were made specifically for that race they receive (looks pointedly at High Elves).

    With what we do know of Cathay, I'm not convinced that there's really anything in the existing lore that is likely to be THAT expensive to make. Temple Dogs will probably be reasonably close to existing rigs. Crowmen will probably have a similar rig to the like of Harpies and Furies. Kirin are basically fancy horses. Cathayan dragons could be anything from a remodel of existing dragons to a completely new expensive model depending on how CA and GW interpret them. Most of it is probably still going to be humanoid (clay or otherwise) or war machines that are reasonably simply to animate.

    Now, we don't know what GW and CA might have up their proverbial sleeves for Cathay that was never hinted at, but I think there's a good chance that the Chaos stuff is still going to involve a larger budget in modelling and animation even in the most minimalistic projections, however many reskins there are.

    These Cathay haters are just directing their anger on Cathay because of their disappointment on their favorite Khorne faction reveal. Nonetheless, for Cathay fans, I am not convinced until I see a gameplay reveal.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 31,194
    united84 said:


    Draxynnic said:

    I think there is a valid point to be made that the amount of budget that a given race has isn't something you'd judge by how many reskins/remodels they get, but on how many unique complex models that were made specifically for that race they receive (looks pointedly at High Elves).

    With what we do know of Cathay, I'm not convinced that there's really anything in the existing lore that is likely to be THAT expensive to make. Temple Dogs will probably be reasonably close to existing rigs. Crowmen will probably have a similar rig to the like of Harpies and Furies. Kirin are basically fancy horses. Cathayan dragons could be anything from a remodel of existing dragons to a completely new expensive model depending on how CA and GW interpret them. Most of it is probably still going to be humanoid (clay or otherwise) or war machines that are reasonably simply to animate.

    Now, we don't know what GW and CA might have up their proverbial sleeves for Cathay that was never hinted at, but I think there's a good chance that the Chaos stuff is still going to involve a larger budget in modelling and animation even in the most minimalistic projections, however many reskins there are.

    These Cathay haters are just directing their anger on Cathay because of their disappointment on their favorite Khorne faction reveal. Nonetheless, for Cathay fans, I am not convinced until I see a gameplay reveal.
    I don't think that's true at all.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name, Beastradamus, Greater Demon of the Ogre Kingdoms, Teller of Truths, Enemy of Lies, Emperor of a lost Empire

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited June 12
    endikux said:

    "The China Market" as a topic is a silly thing.

    Game companies shouldn't chase the China Market by trying to cater directly to the Chinese people or most especially not to the Chinese government. It's dumb and it won't work. Just make good content and people there will either like it or they won't like it. Just like people anywhere. Because people are people wherever they are.

    They've done this in Hollywood with laughable results. When they try and cater directly to China with movies like Mulan, they bomb. And then other movies that are just normal movies will be successful because they are simply fun and well made.

    Chinese people don't need to "see themselves" in a game in order to enjoy it. That's frankly insulting.

    Cathay is a perfect example. It's always been interesting to Warhammer fans because it's another cool part of the world. So just make it cool. Just like many of us want to see Araby because it's another fun idea and builds the world even further.

    We are Warhammer Fans, not English Warhammer Fans, American Warhammer Fans, and Chinese Warhammer fans.

    Developers should stop listening to the suits in meeting rooms and just focus on "is the game fun."

    Mulan bombed because it was a crappy movie, not because it was China pandering. Have you seen the sort of movies China itself throws out like Wolf Warriors? Those movies make Independence Day blush with their amount of patriotic ****.

    And if you think that Cathay wasn't included as a core race over established armybook races Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms to pander to China, then you really don't know the boomer logic behind it.
  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 4,666
    Okey now threads go up eveeytine something new is sayed..

    (Need to get use too)

    I mean I not hate Cathay, honestly I am even hyped but more of the possibility that other far east races get a chance to shine (Khuresh)

    Or even Fishman (yes I dream big)

    Also interested what CA and GW pull out because!

    Is a long time since GW did a complete new race for Warhammer fantasy.


  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    Okey now threads go up eveeytine something new is sayed..

    (Need to get use too)

    I mean I not hate Cathay, honestly I am even hyped but more of the possibility that other far east races get a chance to shine (Khuresh)

    Or even Fishman (yes I dream big)

    Also interested what CA and GW pull out because!

    Is a long time since GW did a complete new race for Warhammer fantasy.

    Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs > everything else east. As long as those haven't been done justice I don't want to see a speck of Khuresh, Ind or Nippon.
  • Daedalusx007Daedalusx007 Registered Users Posts: 277
    endikux said:

    "The China Market" as a topic is a silly thing.

    Game companies shouldn't chase the China Market by trying to cater directly to the Chinese people or most especially not to the Chinese government. It's dumb and it won't work. Just make good content and people there will either like it or they won't like it. Just like people anywhere. Because people are people wherever they are.

    They've done this in Hollywood with laughable results. When they try and cater directly to China with movies like Mulan, they bomb. And then other movies that are just normal movies will be successful because they are simply fun and well made.

    Chinese people don't need to "see themselves" in a game in order to enjoy it. That's frankly insulting.

    Cathay is a perfect example. It's always been interesting to Warhammer fans because it's another cool part of the world. So just make it cool. Just like many of us want to see Araby because it's another fun idea and builds the world even further.

    We are Warhammer Fans, not English Warhammer Fans, American Warhammer Fans, and Chinese Warhammer fans.

    Developers should stop listening to the suits in meeting rooms and just focus on "is the game fun."

    Yea I've been making that arguement for like a year and keep getting told I have no idea what I'm talking about. Like on some level I get it, we have made China into a cultural, economic, and military boogie man out here in the west for a while now.

    But not to worry. I've been told all the resources are going to Cathay, and that Slaanesh and Nurgle are actually going to be sock puppets and in order to fit more Cathay Tzeentch has been cut entirely.
    The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong but those are the ways to bet.

    Dogs of War or bust!
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