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Brawler Mounts For Casters - Terrible

ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 32,686
Whelp, Parrotman strikes again, they're doubling down on making sure that caster lords are as braindead as possible by removing what should be their natural downside which is aversion to phyiscal combat. Bear mounts for Katarin and all of Kislev's casters however of course mean they can dish out in close combat just as much as influence the battlefield with magic.

Lazy and lame.

So WH3 will continue the trend of melee lords being reduced to second banana status which I find throroughly disappointing.

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Comments

  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,440
    edited June 16
    If that is supposed to be one of the main Kislev perks so be it. Not everything is supposed to work the same way.
  • AethelstanAethelstan Registered Users Posts: 308
    It could be intended to be part of Kislev’s hybrid identity, but it’s a very lazy way to Implement it. They could’ve had a unique mount option at least.

    At least Katarin didn’t get an Elemental Bear mount…
    Now then, what's going on 'ere? I'll have no more o' this!
  • oliverpmasonoliverpmason Registered Users Posts: 1,555
    I don't like it either.
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 726
    Kislev is crude land full od crude people (and bears). Being squishy caster is apparently not an option.

    Weak wizards who can't handle a sword are more DnD thing. Warhammer is different.

    BTW remember Gandalf? That guy have higher kill count in melee. Uniqe sword and great eagle mount before it was not cool.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,686
    edited June 16
    uriak said:

    If that is supposed to be one of the main Kislev perks so be it. Not everything is supposed to work the same way.

    Except it works the same way.

    Caster lords should have a tradeoff somewhere, but CA is too enarmored with them and makes them absolutely flawless with no weaknesses.

    Again, PARROTMAN!
    Loreguy said:

    Kislev is crude land full od crude people (and bears). Being squishy caster is apparently not an option.

    Weak wizards who can't handle a sword are more DnD thing. Warhammer is different.

    BTW remember Gandalf? That guy have higher kill count in melee. Uniqe sword and great eagle mount before it was not cool.

    LotR had only five wizards in the entire world and those "wizards" were really powerful demigods, not humans. Their magic was also less showy than what a D&D mage could throw out.

    Not applicable to Warhammer.

    Casters need a downside.

  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,440
    I could say they are not bound to have the same stats nor the same cost, but you obviously have a fixation so I won't bother.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,686
    edited June 16
    uriak said:

    I could say they are not bound to have the same stats nor the same cost, but you obviously have a fixation so I won't bother.

    I could say that you haven't paid attention to the game at all and I would be right.

    Casters are a meta choice already. And planting casters on mounts that also make them melee brawlers is the height of lazy design.

    They ruined Teclis this way and turned him into Parrotman, and it looks like they're doubling down on that idiocy.

  • ThomassiniThomassini Registered Users Posts: 1,121
    The real question is why would we actually recruit boyars if ice witches are equal melee fighters on top of their magic?
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,686
    Yep, just like it's never the better choice to have an Empire captain instead of a wizard or warrior priest.

    All the stupid trends that WH3 could have put an end to continue unabated.


  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943
    Could still give it a downside, but out of all factions Kislev suits it best given that its the Hybrid faction.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 726

    The real question is why would we actually recruit boyars if ice witches are equal melee fighters on top of their magic?

    Boyar with red skills + maiden caster.
  • ThomassiniThomassini Registered Users Posts: 1,121
    Loreguy said:

    The real question is why would we actually recruit boyars if ice witches are equal melee fighters on top of their magic?

    Boyar with red skills + maiden caster.
    That’s two vs one unit slots for only a slightly better performance and mostly important for low level lords.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,838
    edited June 16

    The real question is why would we actually recruit boyars if ice witches are equal melee fighters on top of their magic?

    Boyar is a hybrid Lord with a pistol.

    I still expect Witches and Maidens to be squishy in melee when they sit on a bear. Especially against Chaos.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • LoreguyLoreguy Registered Users Posts: 726

    Loreguy said:

    The real question is why would we actually recruit boyars if ice witches are equal melee fighters on top of their magic?

    Boyar with red skills + maiden caster.
    That’s two vs one unit slots for only a slightly better performance and mostly important for low level lords.
    Boyar will have something to compensate. Pistol, skills, etc.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 5,487
    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,838

    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..

    You mean GW right? Because CA isn’t the creative part here.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 5,487
    ArneSo said:

    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..

    You mean GW right? Because CA isn’t the creative part here.
    CA and GW made this together, and you can bet your bottom dollar, that the mount options for heroes and lords in this game was a decision made by CA, not GW.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,838

    ArneSo said:

    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..

    You mean GW right? Because CA isn’t the creative part here.
    CA and GW made this together, and you can bet your bottom dollar, that the mount options for heroes and lords in this game was a decision made by CA, not GW.
    No no no. GW made it. CA just used the source material.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943

    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..

    In what way is a mount that promotes Hybrid gameplay for Kislev's casters not fitting the Kislev theme?
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • maccabbeemaccabbee Registered Users Posts: 1,117
    uriak said:

    If that is supposed to be one of the main Kislev perks so be it. Not everything is supposed to work the same way.

    Except almost every faction that has a caster lord with a monstrous mount falls on this?
    Like why use a dreadlord or a prince/princess when you can get a supreme sorceress or archmage?

    Magic is too useful to not use and in kislev's case, a patriarch will serve you better than an ice witch when you can already get the ice witch as a lord.

    As for people saying that the ice witch on a bear will be weaker than a boyar on a bear then well no sh1t but the issue is that the weakness of a caster lord is that they're squishy but if you remove their weakness by giving them a monstrous mount which means you already get the upsides of magic as well as the upsides of being able to defend in melee.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 5,487
    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..

    You mean GW right? Because CA isn’t the creative part here.
    CA and GW made this together, and you can bet your bottom dollar, that the mount options for heroes and lords in this game was a decision made by CA, not GW.
    No no no. GW made it. CA just used the source material.
    Wrong. GW made the conceptual units and the new additions. they didn't make the decision for which mount options each character should have, since that would be a game balance decission.. GW didn't tell CA to put Teclis on a parrot either.

    Your incessant white knighting for CA is getting tiresome, especially when the failures of CA is clear for all to see.. But I suppose c'est la vie in the Chocolate Brigade...
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 22,838

    ArneSo said:

    ArneSo said:

    WH3 is pretty much CA's ode to being creatively bankrupt at this point..

    You mean GW right? Because CA isn’t the creative part here.
    CA and GW made this together, and you can bet your bottom dollar, that the mount options for heroes and lords in this game was a decision made by CA, not GW.
    No no no. GW made it. CA just used the source material.
    Wrong. GW made the conceptual units and the new additions. they didn't make the decision for which mount options each character should have, since that would be a game balance decission.. GW didn't tell CA to put Teclis on a parrot either.

    Your incessant white knighting for CA is getting tiresome, especially when the failures of CA is clear for all to see.. But I suppose c'est la vie in the Chocolate Brigade...
    Anyways. Kislev is THE hybrid race so having hybrid caster is actually extremely fitting. Especially since we are lacking a classic melee hero at launch.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,718
    edited June 16
    Sounds like these are mainly for the ultra casual who play this in their free time from Fortnite and can't bothered to deal with protecting squishy mages.

    Thought these witches were anti-ursun anyway. What happened? That died with Boris too?
  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 709
    Where were ya'll when they added arachnarock spider for Goblin Great Shaman lord?

    Ahh yes only complain when it is popular to do so..
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,943

    Sounds like these are mainly for the ultra casual who play this in their free time from Fortnite and can't bothered to deal with protecting squishy mages.

    Thought these witches were anti-ursun anyway. What happened? That died with Boris too?

    The Witches have concerns about the Orthodoxy as a entity, not the Cult of Ursun.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 5,487

    Sounds like these are mainly for the ultra casual who play this in their free time from Fortnite and can't bothered to deal with protecting squishy mages.

    Thought these witches were anti-ursun anyway. What happened? That died with Boris too?

    CA didn't feel like having internal consistency. It clashed with their goal of being creatively bankrupt...
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 2,622
    It does feel like they've just given up on making users have to protect their squishy magic units and instead just making them harder and harder to kill (instead of adding bodyguard units which would be oh so better).

    Lorewise, the idea that taming/befriending a bear took any degree of kinship or specialness has gone out of the window with NuKislev and now it's just a horse upgrade.
  • BayesBayes Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,548
    Calm down, if it is anything like the vampire Coast crab riders they are not going to be powerful anyway atleast not in campaign. Besides it is the least they could do when they have go up against the highest tier SEM monster lords yet.

    The only problem I have is that there are no better mount options for the lords. Kislev is going to be one of the few races with really underwhelming mount options, the issue isn’t the little they got, but what they are lacking.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,820
    edited June 16
    I doubt that the caster will be melee machines just because of their mounts.

    sure against more standard units they will be able to hold their own, but I suspect that a melee lord will(or even hero) will still defeat them quite easy.

    And aren't bears slower then horses? Meaning that it will be easier to catch a caster on a bear then on a horse?


    For me, I see it as a trade off:
    on horse you can better avoid enemies you can't beat anyway and get better into positions to cast the spells.

    on bear you can fight against low and mid tier units and add DPS when not casting.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 5,487
    SiWI said:

    I doubt that the caster will be melee machines just because of their mounts.

    sure against more standard units they will be able to hold their own, but I suspect that a melee lord will(or even hero) will still defeat them quite easy.

    And aren't bears slower then horses? Meaning that it will be easier to catch a caster on a bear then on a horse?


    For me, I see it as a trade off:
    on horse you can better avoid enemies you can't beat anyway and get better into positions to cats the spells.

    on bear you can fight against low and mid tier units and add DPS when not casting.

    Even an Archmage on a Star Dragon will still lose 1v1 against specialised opponents.... However, if you are leaving your, even monster mounted, caster in a 1v1 situation you are doing it wrong.

    However, the Ice Witch on a bear will last a lot longer against a goon squad, than if on a horse and that means she will survive long enough for reinforcements to bail her out.
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