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So, bears aren't domesticated

Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,677
"Just as the people of Kislev worship Ursun, Bear-God of the Motherland, so too do they respect his kin which dwell in the wild lands and forests. These are no slave beasts to be whipped or abused – their riders honour them, and they return this honour."

As I suspected, bears in Kislev aren't breed, and judging by the wording here not even tamed. They are intelligent wild animals developing a kind of mystical-religious bond with their riders. So I guess the debate about the realism of bear cavalry is solved.
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Comments

  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 8,221
    It's no different from Dragons in the HE roster not being just War beasts.
    "By the fires of Hashut, let them burn in the flames of eternal torment!"
    - Anonymous
  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 1,599
    No you simply ask for a ride. They function like Uber..

  • LordCommanderLordCommander Registered Users Posts: 2,771
    Pede said:

    No you simply ask for a ride. They function like Uber..

    Ubear?

    Hmm. Anyone wanna invest in my new business venture?
    Observe the power of the edgy internet axegrinders and how quickly some have changed their tune- https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/300358/what-would-make-you-buy-the-game/p1

    Just as a warning against making predictions- https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290416/time-to-admit-there-will-be-no-new-dlc-for-twwh-2#latest

  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 8,240
    Xenos7777 said:

    "Just as the people of Kislev worship Ursun, Bear-God of the Motherland, so too do they respect his kin which dwell in the wild lands and forests. These are no slave beasts to be whipped or abused – their riders honour them, and they return this honour."

    As I suspected, bears in Kislev aren't breed, and judging by the wording here not even tamed. They are intelligent wild animals developing a kind of mystical-religious bond with their riders. So I guess the debate about the realism of bear cavalry is solved.

    Yes... but not the plausibility or verisimilitude.
  • PedePede Registered Users Posts: 1,599

    Pede said:

    No you simply ask for a ride. They function like Uber..

    Ubear?

    Hmm. Anyone wanna invest in my new business venture?
    My god you absolute madman of a genius!

  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,232
    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,677

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 31,526
    They are mystical and intelligent creatures like Dragons that have a deep bond with their Rider.
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • AethelstanAethelstan Registered Users Posts: 332
    Imagine a mighty bear, filled with Ursun’s spirit, chooses a strong warrior to bond with and carry into battle. This venerable ursine titan ventures forth from the woods to join the noble struggle against chaos, for the fate of the world is at stake.

    Then he gets yeeted into a harness and forced to drag a wagon with a few drunken gunmen in it.
    Now then, what's going on 'ere? I'll have no more o' this!
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,124
    edited June 2021
    ArneSo said:

    They are mystical and intelligent creatures like Dragons that have a deep bond with their Rider.

    There is no bond only bear. The Bear enslaves the man because man is weak and bear is strong. Kislev is the race of Bear masters.
    Post edited by Arthas_Menethil on
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • TheBlaze_64TheBlaze_64 Registered Users Posts: 304
    I think the term "mystical-religious" is less apt than "relationship" or "friendship." Maybe even "partnership."

    They respect each other like two soldiers.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Registered Users Posts: 7,073
    There never was a debate about realism....
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,965

    It's no different from Dragons in the HE roster not being just War beasts.

    They are kinda rare and expensive tho....
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,965
    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 9,954
    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
    Because its implying they have a level of sentience that allows them to cooperate with humans without being 'broken in'.

  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 31,526

    ArneSo said:

    They are mystical and intelligent creatures like Dragons that have a deep bond with their Rider.

    There is no bound only bear. The Bear enslaves the man because man is weak and bear is strong. Kislev is the race of Bear masters.
    I’ll happily serve my new ursine overlords.

    With Boris being killed by Chaos, we really need Urskin as a LL looking for revenge.

    - Urskin LL
    - Ancient Ice Bear (Lord)
    - Ancient Brown Bear (Hero)
    - Giant Bear (SEM)
    - Bear Back
    - Young Bears


    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Because people claimed that it was totally possible to do so even in real life.

    Don't try to fudge the issue now.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,701

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Because people claimed that it was totally possible to do so even in real life.

    Don't try to fudge the issue now.
    and "Why don't do it if you have bears as mounts? It makes perfect sense to domesticate them en maß and use them for everything instead of horses!"
    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 19,253
    The arguments against the amount of bears is to wishy washy.

    How many bears are there around Kislev? Not known

    Are there more bears than cav in the units? No

    No one can objectively argue there are ‘too many’ bears, it makes no sense.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Also I must say that's a pretty darn lazy handwave that throws up more questions than it answers.

    Ulrich's sacred animal are wolves. Are they intelligent enough to enter pacts too? Why don't they act as scouts and light cavalry for Ulrich worshipers?

    Also, why do wolves cooperate with Goblins when Goblins don't worship Ulric and are in fact more often hostile towards Ulric worshipers than not?

    And if bears are that intelligent in Warhammer, why don't they have their own civilisation like the armored bears from His Dark Materials?
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 19,253

    Also I must say that's a pretty darn lazy handwave that throws up more questions than it answers.

    Ulrich's sacred animal are wolves. Are they intelligent enough to enter pacts too? Why don't they act as scouts and light cavalry for Ulrich worshipers?

    Also, why do wolves cooperate with Goblins when Goblins don't worship Ulric and are in fact more often hostile towards Ulric worshipers than not?

    And if bears are that intelligent in Warhammer, why don't they have their own civilisation like the armored bears from His Dark Materials?

    If a bear cannot make its own armour it cannot be intelligent? Sure it’s got nothing to do with an opposable thumb?
  • ArneSoArneSo Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 31,526

    Also I must say that's a pretty darn lazy handwave that throws up more questions than it answers.

    Ulrich's sacred animal are wolves. Are they intelligent enough to enter pacts too? Why don't they act as scouts and light cavalry for Ulrich worshipers?

    Also, why do wolves cooperate with Goblins when Goblins don't worship Ulric and are in fact more often hostile towards Ulric worshipers than not?

    And if bears are that intelligent in Warhammer, why don't they have their own civilisation like the armored bears from His Dark Materials?

    So Dragons forge their own armour then?
    Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life
  • MaelasMaelas Registered Users Posts: 5,180
    This lore excerpt makes it even more nonsensical that Ice Witches have Bears as mounts. What does they care about Ursun ? They're not worshippers, at least not at an institutional level.

    On a similar but opposite note, what's the justification for Rasputin having Ice Guards and Witches ? One is Katarina's personal guard, and he's opposed to magic users.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,677

    Also I must say that's a pretty darn lazy handwave that throws up more questions than it answers.

    Ulrich's sacred animal are wolves. Are they intelligent enough to enter pacts too? Why don't they act as scouts and light cavalry for Ulrich worshipers?

    Also, why do wolves cooperate with Goblins when Goblins don't worship Ulric and are in fact more often hostile towards Ulric worshipers than not?

    And if bears are that intelligent in Warhammer, why don't they have their own civilisation like the armored bears from His Dark Materials?

    well, Dragons are arguably more intelligent than humans and don't really have a civilisation.
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,965
    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
    Because its implying they have a level of sentience that allows them to cooperate with humans without being 'broken in'.
    That sounds like something straight out of a disney movie.

    I mean, they could have just made it ritualistic with living out in the wild with the bears or some BS.

    But now with sentient bears....
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 19,253
    TeNoSkill said:

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
    Because its implying they have a level of sentience that allows them to cooperate with humans without being 'broken in'.
    That sounds like something straight out of a disney movie.

    I mean, they could have just made it ritualistic with living out in the wild with the bears or some BS.

    But now with sentient bears....
    The Elven Dragons would like a word.

    Also, in real life UK law recognises most animals as sentient, so it's not as fantastical as you think. A bear merely needs to know it exists with a past present and future to be sentient.
  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 9,954
    TeNoSkill said:

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
    Because its implying they have a level of sentience that allows them to cooperate with humans without being 'broken in'.
    That sounds like something straight out of a disney movie.

    I mean, they could have just made it ritualistic with living out in the wild with the bears or some BS.

    But now with sentient bears....
    Elf Dragons would like a word.

  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 4,965

    TeNoSkill said:

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
    Because its implying they have a level of sentience that allows them to cooperate with humans without being 'broken in'.
    That sounds like something straight out of a disney movie.

    I mean, they could have just made it ritualistic with living out in the wild with the bears or some BS.

    But now with sentient bears....
    The Elven Dragons would like a word.

    Also, in real life UK law recognises most animals as sentient, so it's not as fantastical as you think. A bear merely needs to know it exists with a past present and future to be sentient.
    Dragons are fantastical beasts, bears are not.

  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,677
    TeNoSkill said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Amonkhet said:

    TeNoSkill said:

    Xenos7777 said:

    There was never a discussion about realistic bear cavalry, there was complaint about too many bear units and bad design choices for the sleds.

    uhm, I remember a lot of people talking about the inherent issues of breeding and feeding large numbers of domesticated big predators.
    Which is not resolved by this answer. If the bears aren t domesticated, how tf can you integrate them into an organized army???
    Because its implying they have a level of sentience that allows them to cooperate with humans without being 'broken in'.
    That sounds like something straight out of a disney movie.

    I mean, they could have just made it ritualistic with living out in the wild with the bears or some BS.

    But now with sentient bears....
    The Elven Dragons would like a word.

    Also, in real life UK law recognises most animals as sentient, so it's not as fantastical as you think. A bear merely needs to know it exists with a past present and future to be sentient.
    Dragons are fantastical beasts, bears are not.

    all beasts in warhammer are somewhat fantastical. They are tied with deities or magic or spirits of the lands like Athel Loren.
This discussion has been closed.