Anyone want to take a final guess as to the BM vs LM DLC?

XxXScorpionXxX#2310 · June 2021

Most of it has been leaked/hinted here and there so I'm going to make an attempt at a final roster.

LM

Legendary Lord
Oxyotl

Lords
Cham Skink Lord

Heroes
Skink Oracle

Units
Cham Skink Stalkers
Coatl
Troglodon

RoR's
Coatl, Cham Skink Stalkers, Cold One Riders

BM

Legendary Lord
Taurox

Lords
Doombull

Heroes
Wargor

Units
Tuskgor Chariot
Tuskgor Heard
Ghorgon
Jabber

RoR's
Centigors, Ghorgon, Jabber

FLC Lord
Ghorros Warhoof

Access FLC
Great Bray Shaman

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434 · June 2021

I agree with everything you listed being the most likely except the FLC lord.

I am calling it the FLC lord will be a Dwarf and Thorek Ironbrow specifically.

They want to get as many people as possible playing Warhammer 2 leading up to the release data of WH3, so having new lords for the most races that will attract the most players is the best strategic thing for them to do.

Rob18446 · June 2021

Yeah pretty much exactly the list I was thinking of too, hopefully we also get a TW access gift of the Great Bray Shaman as well

SnakeMajin#4018 · June 2021

That's a safe bet. Less units but quite a load of centerpieces to make up for it.

I imagine a SEM with bound spells is what will fit best in these games for the Coatl. I don't see it being a hero due to them be supposed to also work as agents. And Coatl for Lord, I don't know, I feel the Chameleon Lord would fill a bigger gap as a ranged Lord as well as ring thematic for Oxyotl.

Ghorros is likely as FLC, should the unit cards leak be proven true. And yeah, as said above, Great Bray Shaman is a perfect fit for FLC (Total War Access or whatever) as they don't really fit Taurox but would fill an important gap in BM armies. But the question is what could we expect with Ghorros as a "big bonus" for Call of the Beastmen owners ? Drycha came with quite a unique roster.

I really don't know if Legendary Heroes should also be expected. We'll have to wait and see because with that many centerpieces it would be quite a surprise.

FLC Dwarf is unlikely. After Drycha, odds are they will offer a FLC Lord for the Beastmen with stuff for Call of the Beastmen owners. From a marketing point of view, it would work as an incentive (for people that don't have them) to buy both WH1 and Call of the Beastmen. While a Dwarf would "just" require WH1.

Draxynnic#3149 · June 2021

SnakeMajin said:
I imagine a SEM with bound spells is what will fit best in these games for the Coatl. I don't see it being a hero due to them be supposed to also work as agents. And Coatl for Lord, I don't know, I feel the Chameleon Lord would fill a bigger gap as a ranged Lord as well as ring thematic for Oxyotl.

Why wouldn't Coatls work as agents?

According to the fluff, they're able to move sections of the jungle around (or at least make it seem like they can) and generally confuse the frell out of invaders in their domain and get them lost. Sounds like a Block Army action to me. That combined with the fluff that they have a tendency to bring storms along with them also sounds like a solid justification for a Damage Walls or Damage Buildings action against settlements. As protectors of the sacred places, they'd likely be a source of Untainted. They're not assassins, so they'd probably have Wound against other agents rather than Assassinate.

Need anything else?

Jam#4399 · June 2021

TheTrueLordAndy said:
I agree with everything you listed being the most likely except the FLC lord.

I am calling it the FLC lord will be a Dwarf and Thorek Ironbrow specifically.

They want to get as many people as possible playing Warhammer 2 leading up to the release data of WH3, so having new lords for the most races that will attract the most players is the best strategic thing for them to do.

Dwarf for free?

Why would CA make them free in Mortal Empire if they can improve them in W3?

MiniaAr#5798 · June 2021

Ok final predictions:

LM
Oxyotl
Chameleon skin hero: range only and unmounted while skink chief is more hybrid and has mounts. Same dynamic as Glade Captain/waystalker.

Coatl
Troglodon
Stalkers

BM
Taurox
Doombull lord
Wargor hero

Jabberslythe
Tuskgor Charriot
Ghorgon

TWA character for BM: Great Bray Shaman
FLC "no strings attached" (skaven chieftain equivalent): Chakax legendary hero or equivalent Temple guard guardian hero (unmounted melee hero). Should have been the ancient Krox role but temple guard could do.

Call of the Beastmen update
Ghorros Warhoof
Ghorros faction characters (Malevolent tree spirits equivalents)
Centigor chieftain lord
Centigor Gorehoof hero
"Armoured Centigor" or equivalent unit.

CaesarSahlertz · June 2021

Is there ANY indication that CA is departing from the usual 3 new units for each side?

Draxynnic#3149 · June 2021

CaesarSahlertz said:
Is there ANY indication that CA is departing from the usual 3 new units for each side?

No, but there's also no indication that they're not doing so. It's not like it would be unprecedented, after all.

TheTrue_LordAndy#1434 · June 2021

CaesarSahlertz said:
Is there ANY indication that CA is departing from the usual 3 new units for each side?

Probably not Coatl, Jabberslythe, Ghorgon and to a slightly lesser extent the troglodon will all need new animations so don't think there would be much room in the budget for more than 3.

TheWattman#7460 · June 2021

CaesarSahlertz said:
Is there ANY indication that CA is departing from the usual 3 new units for each side?

Its never been a "usual" 3 units per race. That was just Twisted & Twilight with its heavy focus on legendary heroes.

Warden & Paunch was Lord + 5 units + Mistwalkers + ROR for HE, Hero + 6 units + ROR for Greenskins

Hunter & Beast was Lord + 4 units + ROR for Empire, Lord + 4 units + ROR for LM

Prophet & Warlock was Lord + 3 units + MANY ROR for Skaven, Lord + 6 units + ROR for LM

Horus89#9789 · June 2021

LM:
Oxyotl
Skink Oracle

Coatl
Troglodon
Stalkers

BM:
Taurox
Doombull
Wargor
Ghorgon
Jabberslythe
Tuskgor Charriot

FLC:
Kroxigor Hero (TWA.)
+
Ghorros Warhoof
Great Bray-Shaman
Khorngors
Tzaangors
Pestigors
Slaangors
Bestigor Herd weapons variants

SnakeMajin#4018 · June 2021

Draxynnic said:

SnakeMajin said:
I imagine a SEM with bound spells is what will fit best in these games for the Coatl. I don't see it being a hero due to them be supposed to also work as agents. And Coatl for Lord, I don't know, I feel the Chameleon Lord would fill a bigger gap as a ranged Lord as well as ring thematic for Oxyotl.
Why wouldn't Coatls work as agents?

According to the fluff, they're able to move sections of the jungle around (or at least make it seem like they can) and generally confuse the frell out of invaders in their domain and get them lost. Sounds like a Block Army action to me. That combined with the fluff that they have a tendency to bring storms along with them also sounds like a solid justification for a Damage Walls or Damage Buildings action against settlements. As protectors of the sacred places, they'd likely be a source of Untainted. They're not assassins, so they'd probably have Wound against other agents rather than Assassinate.

Need anything else?

Pretty convincing, fair enough !

I guess I have an issue with Coatls not being Humanoid to some extent, as they'd not fit what I'm used to see as the regular Hero/Lord mould.

CaesarSahlertz · June 2021

TheWattman said:

CaesarSahlertz said:
Is there ANY indication that CA is departing from the usual 3 new units for each side?
Its never been a "usual" 3 units per race. That was just Twisted & Twilight with its heavy focus on legendary heroes.

Warden & Paunch was Lord + 5 units + Mistwalkers + ROR for HE, Hero + 6 units + ROR for Greenskins

Hunter & Beast was Lord + 4 units + ROR for Empire, Lord + 4 units + ROR for LM

Prophet & Warlock was Lord + 3 units + MANY ROR for Skaven, Lord + 6 units + ROR for LM

RoRs are literally recolours... The VAST majority of LPs have had a total of 3 new units for each side. THe only time that more has been included, has been when the units in question weren't all that expensive to include..

If we are indeed getting Jabber, Ghorgon, and Coatl, then there isn't much budget left for the rest of the units.

A pessimistic/minimalist list would be:

Taurox
Jabberslythe
Ghorgon
Tuskgor Chariot

Oxyotl
Coatl (either as a Hero choice or just a unit)
Stalkers
Troglodon

Doombull Lord choice as FLC

Optimistically, the Doombull will be added through the DLC and a Wargor hero choice will be added as the FLC.

Bonutz#3949 · June 2021

LM

Oxyotl
Chameleon Stalker (L)
Tetto’eko (LH)
Skink Oracle with Troglodon mount (H)
Chameleon Stalkers
Troglodon
Coatl

BM

Taurox
Doombull (L)
Wargor (H)
Gors with halberds
Tuskgor Chariots
Ghorgon
Jabberslythe

TW Access

Great Bray Shaman

FLC Lord

Boris Todbringer with Middenland Units

Aethelstan · June 2021

I think this list is spot on. The only thing I would add is halberd Bestigors. They appear next to Taurox in the steam screenshot and seem to have lost their ROR colouration, meaning they could be a standard variant.

This change would help BM out a little vs armoured SEMs, plus it would cost CA literally nothing except the price of a new unit card.

steam_164513114285QqDwIYf · June 2021

I'll throw my predictions into the pile:

Lizardmen:

LL - Oxyotl

Lord - Chameleon Skink Chief

Hero - Kroxigor Hero

Units - Chameleon Stalkers, Coatl, Troglodon

Beastmen:

LL - Taurox

Lord - Doombull

Hero - Wargor

Units - Tuskgor Chariot, Jabberslythe, Ghorgon

TW Access - Great Bray Shaman

FLC - Honestly no idea; toss up between Boris, Ghorros, or Josef Bugman.

TheWattman#7460 · June 2021

CaesarSahlertz said:
RoRs are literally recolours... The VAST majority of LPs have had a total of 3 new units for each side. THe only time that more has been included, has been when the units in question weren't all that expensive to include..

If we are indeed getting Jabber, Ghorgon, and Coatl, then there isn't much budget left for the rest of the units.

A pessimistic/minimalist list would be:

Taurox
Jabberslythe
Ghorgon
Tuskgor Chariot

Oxyotl
Coatl (either as a Hero choice or just a unit)
Stalkers
Troglodon

Doombull Lord choice as FLC

Optimistically, the Doombull will be added through the DLC and a Wargor hero choice will be added as the FLC.

Lets consider the costs here though. Much on the Lizardmen side are redesigns, recoloured Chameleons and a somewhat modified Carnosaur. Only new stuff is the Coatl. Should be more room there for either Skink Bows or Culchans, otherwise it would be a very shallow one.

Tuskgors are remodeled Razorgors and the Ghorgon has the basic rigging from the Cygor. Doombull is one of the cheapest things possible to make. Wargor is also very cheap being just a hero beastlord. Only the Jabberslythe requires really thorough work here. I say 4 units and Lord+Hero (Chameleon and either Kroxigor or Skink Oracle hero) and atleast 3 units + Lord+Hero is perfectly reasonable here.

FLC update would be: Ghorros, Centigor Lord + Hero, Preytons, Ramhorn Siege Beast, Brays, Bovigors

LM FLC: Chakax

BM Access FLC: Great Bray Shaman.

MiniaAr#5798 · June 2021

No indication we'll get more than 3 units per side. If we indeed get Coatl, Troglodon, Ghorgon and Jabberslythe, I think that's already on the very high end of new additions via lord Pack.

Rob18446 · June 2021

TheWattman said:

CaesarSahlertz said:
RoRs are literally recolours... The VAST majority of LPs have had a total of 3 new units for each side. THe only time that more has been included, has been when the units in question weren't all that expensive to include..

If we are indeed getting Jabber, Ghorgon, and Coatl, then there isn't much budget left for the rest of the units.

A pessimistic/minimalist list would be:

Taurox
Jabberslythe
Ghorgon
Tuskgor Chariot

Oxyotl
Coatl (either as a Hero choice or just a unit)
Stalkers
Troglodon

Doombull Lord choice as FLC

Optimistically, the Doombull will be added through the DLC and a Wargor hero choice will be added as the FLC.
Lets consider the costs here though. Much on the Lizardmen side are redesigns, recoloured Chameleons and a somewhat modified Carnosaur. Only new stuff is the Coatl. Should be more room there for either Skink Bows or Culchans, otherwise it would be a very shallow one.

Tuskgors are remodeled Razorgors and the Ghorgon has the basic rigging from the Cygor. Doombull is one of the cheapest things possible to make. Wargor is also very cheap being just a hero beastlord. Only the Jabberslythe requires really thorough work here. I say 4 units and Lord+Hero (Chameleon and either Kroxigor or Skink Oracle hero) and atleast 3 units + Lord+Hero is perfectly reasonable here.

FLC update would be: Ghorros, Centigor Lord + Hero, Preytons, Ramhorn Siege Beast, Brays, Bovigors

LM FLC: Chakax

BM Access FLC: Great Bray Shaman.

Think you're massively overestimating the scope of the FLC content, Drychas "new" units were all existing models in the game, just recoloured and having any riders removed, no were near the scale of even the Preyton

MiniaAr#5798 · June 2021

Yeah we're not getting Preytons and Ramhorns as an FLC updated unit. The only unit added in the RotWE update wre the melee Glade Riders, so at most we'll get an equivalent. I thought about the Tuskgor charriot here, but "some sources" point to the fact that it will be a DLC unit.

For the FLC Lord, I agree that the most likely candidate is Ghorros and that he could have special Centigor characters not that hard to add, same as Drycha who got special Forest spirits characters. But new units I'm not counting on them at all.

TheWattman#7460 · June 2021

Rob18446 said:
Think you're massively overestimating the scope of the FLC content, Drychas "new" units were all existing models in the game, just recoloured and having any riders removed, no were near the scale of even the Preyton

Well lets keep in mind there wasn't that much more that could be done with Wood Elf content that would fit Drycha's theme now would it? Remaining 8th edition content was only the Shadowdancer and many of the monsters from 4th edition wouldn't have been that thematic and it just so happens that some of them were already in in different forms. Besides, CA tends to shy away from certain swarm units.

Beastmen have much more to build on along the lines I mentioned. Centigor upgrades, Brays being Ungors without horns, Preyton a reskinned Terrorgeist. Not that much work really. Ramhorn is the one new thing here.

Rob18446 · June 2021

TheWattman said:

Rob18446 said:
Think you're massively overestimating the scope of the FLC content, Drychas "new" units were all existing models in the game, just recoloured and having any riders removed, no were near the scale of even the Preyton
Well lets keep in mind there wasn't that much more that could be done with Wood Elf content that would fit Drycha's theme now would it? Remaining 8th edition content was only the Shadowdancer and many of the monsters from 4th edition wouldn't have been that thematic and it just so happens that some of them were already in in different forms. Besides, CA tends to shy away from certain swarm units.

Beastmen have much more to build on along the lines I mentioned. Centigor upgrades, Brays being Ungors without horns, Preyton a reskinned Terrorgeist. Not that much work really. Ramhorn is the one new thing here.

It's less about the potential though and more to with the actual workload, they're already putting out a full DLC, the largest faction rework yet and at least a FLC LL, the likelihood of them having the resources left to even make a bunch of large scale reskins is unlikely.

Also unlike Drycha who needed an altered roster to fit with her character there's zero need for Ghorros to have any different units compared to a regular BM lord

Fossoway · June 2021

I have my fingers crossed for the Great Bray-Shaman. I'm really worried they won't include him. They've never released a FLC generic lord via TW access, right?

Djau#5149 · June 2021

Lizardmen:
---------------
Legendary Lord: Oxyotl
Lord: Coatl
Hero: Skink Oracle
Legendary Hero: Tetto'eko
Mount: Troglodon
Units: Chameleon Stalkers, Feral Troglodon, Culchan Riders
RoR: Chameleon Stalkers, Feral Troglodon, Culchan Riders

Beastmen:
--------------
Legendary Lord: Taurox
Lord: Doombull
Hero: Wargor
Legendary Hero: Ghorros Warhoof
Units: Jabberslythe, Ghorgon, Tuskgor Chariot
RoR: Centigors, Jabberslythe, Ghorgon

FLC Lord: Moonclaw
Total War Access FLC: Great Bray Shaman

Rob18446 · June 2021

Amonkhet said:
Lizardmen:
---------------
Legendary Lord: Oxyotl
Lord: Coatl
Hero: Skink Oracle
Legendary Hero: Tetto'eko
Mount: Troglodon
Units: Chameleon Stalkers, Feral Troglodon, Culchan Riders
RoR: Chameleon Stalkers, Feral Troglodon, Culchan Riders

Beastmen:
--------------
Legendary Lord: Taurox
Lord: Doombull
Hero: Wargor
Legendary Hero: Ghorros Warhoof
Units: Jabberslythe, Ghorgon, Tuskgor Chariot
RoR: Centigors, Jabberslythe, Ghorgon

FLC Lord: Moonclaw
Total War Access FLC: Great Bray Shaman

There's unlikely to be any LH this time round tbh, in the last pack it made sense because both LH had a strong connection with their respective LLs, I doubt they're just going to randomly tack a pair on for the sake of it.

RikRiorik#9890 · June 2021

I don't know how much I've missed from apparently leaked stuff but if both the Troglodon and the Coatl are on the Lizardmen side of things I'd start fearing for the Single Entity Monster count on the Beastmen side. My enormous disbelief at the inclusion of the Ghorgon and Jabberslythe in the face of those other two being included would however not come close to matching my ginormous enthusiasm.

AxiosXiphos#9040 · June 2021

Draxynnic said:

SnakeMajin said:
I imagine a SEM with bound spells is what will fit best in these games for the Coatl. I don't see it being a hero due to them be supposed to also work as agents. And Coatl for Lord, I don't know, I feel the Chameleon Lord would fill a bigger gap as a ranged Lord as well as ring thematic for Oxyotl.
Why wouldn't Coatls work as agents?

According to the fluff, they're able to move sections of the jungle around (or at least make it seem like they can) and generally confuse the frell out of invaders in their domain and get them lost. Sounds like a Block Army action to me. That combined with the fluff that they have a tendency to bring storms along with them also sounds like a solid justification for a Damage Walls or Damage Buildings action against settlements. As protectors of the sacred places, they'd likely be a source of Untainted. They're not assassins, so they'd probably have Wound against other agents rather than Assassinate.

Need anything else?

Lorefully they would; thematically the wouldn't. Agents gain weapons, items and traits as they progress - none of these really make sense for the Coatl. It will be something like the Zoats more likely.

Fossoway · June 2021

AxiosXiphos said:

Draxynnic said:

SnakeMajin said:
I imagine a SEM with bound spells is what will fit best in these games for the Coatl. I don't see it being a hero due to them be supposed to also work as agents. And Coatl for Lord, I don't know, I feel the Chameleon Lord would fill a bigger gap as a ranged Lord as well as ring thematic for Oxyotl.
Why wouldn't Coatls work as agents?

According to the fluff, they're able to move sections of the jungle around (or at least make it seem like they can) and generally confuse the frell out of invaders in their domain and get them lost. Sounds like a Block Army action to me. That combined with the fluff that they have a tendency to bring storms along with them also sounds like a solid justification for a Damage Walls or Damage Buildings action against settlements. As protectors of the sacred places, they'd likely be a source of Untainted. They're not assassins, so they'd probably have Wound against other agents rather than Assassinate.

Need anything else?
Lorefully they would; thematically the wouldn't. Agents gain weapons, items and traits as they progress - none of these really make sense for the Coatl. It will be something like the Zoats more likely.

Single-entity flying monsters with bound spells, more like. The one we caught a glimpse in the trailer was pretty big and alone.

MiniaAr#5798 · June 2021

Fossoway said:
I have my fingers crossed for the Great Bray-Shaman. I'm really worried they won't include him. They've never released a FLC generic lord via TW access, right?

No generic lord via TW Access, but generic Heroes yes: Skaven Chieftan and Wood Elves glade Captain in the last update.

Thus I would say it's plausible, based on the fact that the Great Bray Shaman would be a promoted Bray Shaman while the Glade Captain and Skaven Chieftain were demoted Glade Lady and Skaven Warlord respectively.

Alternatively, Wargor could be a TWA hero and not be a part of the DLC, with only the Doombull as the generic DLC character for BM. This would leave out the Great Bray Shaman, which is not great but a real possibility sadly.

SnakeMajin#4018 · June 2021

I don't necessarily expect LH. But when you come to think of it, wouldn't that be now or never for Tetto'eko ? Obviously as LH ?

Because, due to Troglodons coming now, it's now or never for Oracles. And if they do bring Oracles, he fits the theme. I also could see him as the one that could predict where Chaos forces will spawn for Oxyotl to tacle them.

Besides, I don't see CA just giving him a Palanquin mount with the Troglodon around. But as FLC LH or LL in game 3, I'm not sure he'd be able to have a Troglodon mount.

It's hard to tell the workload needed for him and Chakax.

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Anyone want to take a final guess as to the BM vs LM DLC?

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