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My Take on Thematic Army Compositions - Dark Elves

GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
It's time to delve into the Warhammer II races for the series! As always, remember that my lists are designed for single-player and while I aim to be thematic, I take inspiration from the game first and the lore second. The Dark Elves have six Legendary Lords, and I have tried to make their army compositions all operate a little differently, where possible.

1) Malekith

Malekith on Seraphon, melee focus
Khainite Assassin
Sorceress (Dark) on Dark Pegasus
Black Guard of Naggarond x6
Shades x5
Reaper Bolt Throwers x4
Black Dragon x2

Malekith buffs absolutely no units outside of upkeep reduction, unfortunately. He gets a Dark Sorceress to compensate for the melee focus in his skill tree, and she's on a Dark Pegasus because he and the other dragons can defend her in the sky. He starts with Black Guard and Bolt Throwers, so he gets those, and then also the dragons since he's the big daddy (or son, I guess) of the race at large. To be honest, his composition is mostly the leftovers from what the rest of the lords don't buff. Malekith's army presents a heavy infantry front supported by crossbows and artillery with strikes of opportunity carried out from the air.

2) Morathi

Morathi on Sulephet
Khainite Assassin
Sisters of the Singing Doom
Witch Elves x3
Shades (Dual Weapons) x3
Dark Riders (Shields) x2
Slaanesh's Harvesters
Doomfire Warlocks
Raven Heralds
Dark Riders (Repeater Crossbow) x2
The Crows of Khaine
Harpies
Chill on Sontar
War Hydra

Conversely to Malekith, Morathi buffs a bunch of units, and starts with Harpies and a War Hydra. She has a lot of variety within her army, but most of it is light or supportive to other units. Despite being buffed by Hellebron, Morathi has the Witch Elves because Hellebron has enough infantry as-is, and the Witch Elves have been in the game since launch. Morathi also buffs Dark Riders and Shades. Her infantry is mid-tier, supported by solid ranged units. Her cavalry is light/magical, supported by ranged cavalry and flying units. The Hydras can tie up enemy units while ranged and magical attacks get unleashed.

3) Crone Hellebron

Hellebron on Cauldron of Blood
Sorceress (Death) on Dark Pegasus
Death Hag on Caludron of Blood
Sisters of Slaughter x5
Blades of the Blood Queen
Har Ganeth Executioners x4
The Bolt-fiends
Darkshards (Shields) x4
Feral Manticore x2

Hellebron buffs Witch Elves, Sisters of Slaughter, and Har Ganeth Executioners, but I deemed the latter two sufficient for her army and gave the least valuable of the three to Morathi. Her heavy infantry focus leaves few weaknesses to attack, but the Manticores are mobile enough to defend the ranged infantry if necessary. I gave her a couple of Manticores because they are a mount option for her and she needed something besides infantry in her army. The lore of magic is Death because, you know, "Death Nights".

4) Lokhir Fellhart

Lokhir (unmounted)
Sorceress (Fire) on Dark Pegasus
Master on Dark Pegasus
Black Ark Corsairs x5
Black Ark Corsairs (Handbow) x5
Feral Manticore x3
Kharibdyss x2
Bloodwrack Shrine x2

Lokhir is unmounted because two lords mounted on Black Dragons is enough and this way, he's the only foot Lord in the list. I gave him the Fire caster for the admittedly loose reasoning of being able to burn ships at enemy ports, but I almost gave him the Dark caster and gave the fire one to Malekith on the grounds of him walking into the flame, so consider those allotments interchangeable. Both heroes have flying mounts to use in conjunction with or be supported by the Manticores, which Lokhir has because he starts with one. Obviously Corsairs make up the bulk of his army, and though they are mid-tier, the Bloodwrack Shrines will help them out some. Malus doesn't actually buff the shrines, and he has enough going on with his army to spare them, so I stole them for Lokhir. There's a definite sea vibe to their aesthetic, and I believe that the Kharibdyss has associations with the sea, even apart from coming in the same content drop as Lokhir.

5) Malus Darkblade

Malus on Spite
Sorceress (Shadows) on Cold One
Master on Cold One
Bleakswords x2
Dreadspears x2
Knights of the Ebon Claw
Cold One Dread Knights x3
Cold One Knights x2
Cold One Chariots x4
Siren of Red Ruin
Bloodwrack Medusae x2

While Morathi fields light cavalry, Malus brings the heavy cav into play. He gets the Shadows caster because there's a demon attempting to manipulate him. I could have given him Corsairs instead of T1 infantry, but he's got a lot of micro to do with all the cavalry and chariots, so something that can just pin down the enemy will suit his army just fine. I don't think that anything else with his composition requires clarification, as the rest is to be expected given his bonuses and DLC content. I address Scourgerunners below.

6) Beastlord Rakarth

Rakarth on Bracchus
Sorceress (Beasts) on Cold One
Master on Cold One Chariot
The Hellebronai
Dreadspears x2
Shades (Greatswords) x3
Feral Cold Ones
Feral Stegadon
Feral Carnosaur
Feral Mammoth
War Hydra
Kharibdyss
Black Dragon
Ravagers of Rakarth
Scourgerunner Chariot
Reaper Bolt Throwers x2

Rakarth's army doesn't need much justification, but what the heck. Lore of beasts (duh). He has some cheap anti-large infantry with their RoR, which very possibly is associated with Hellebron, but the unit card didn't explicitly say so, and it wouldn't be worth having just one unit of Dreadspears in her army anyway. Rakarth starts with one unit of Greatsword Shades, so I gave him a couple more. The RoR Scourgerunner has Rakarth's name in it, so he's just the Scourgerunner guy. His artillery, hydras, and kharbidysses all have special abilities, and the rest of the beasts are ones that he has unique access to. I excluded giant wolves because almost every race has dogs, and they're kinda boring. The explosive squigs are like bloated corpses: use them to fill gaps in the army if you lose a unit. Lorewise, Rakarth would likely prefer keeping the squigs on display rather than having his spoils kill themselves in battle.

Let me know what you think! This one took longer than any of the other posts so far to make, but I'm happy that I found a place for all of the lores of magic available to the Dark Elves, even if a couple of the justifications are tenuous. I have fun putting these together and am happy to see others enjoy the discussion. Thanks!

Previous Lists

Dwarfs https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288070/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-dwarfs
Vampires https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288074/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-vampire-counts
Empire https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/289912/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-the-empire
Greenskins https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288285/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-greenskins
Bretonnia https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290009/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-bretonnia
Wood Elves https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/288448/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-wood-elves
Norsca https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/290569/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-norsca
WoC https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/292243/my-take-on-thematic-army-compositions-warriors-of-chaos

Comments

  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 9,487
    I for one love themed/role play armies

    Thanks for a good post

    Ps:I'd wish Ca made the buffs for cold ones under Malus better, that's all i wanted to field as him but they are just so bad ☹
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
    Reeks said:

    I for one love themed/role play armies

    Thanks for a good post

    Ps:I'd wish Ca made the buffs for cold ones under Malus better, that's all i wanted to field as him but they are just so bad ☹

    Thank you! I share your desire for better cold ones, but we've all worked with worse before. In Vortex, I definitely relied on the ranged units from garrisons for those pesky Skaven siege defenses.
  • MrSir231MrSir231 Registered Users Posts: 63
    I love these types of posts. Could you do one for Lizardmen next?
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
    edited June 2021
    MrSir231 said:

    I love these types of posts. Could you do one for Lizardmen next?

    The Lizardmen would have been my first post for the Warhammer II races if it weren't for the upcoming DLC! I think that their themes are pretty neat, but it'd be best to see what exactly we get in the DLC package before committing to a list that I may otherwise be obligated to change shortly.

    I appreciate the enthusiasm, though! I will do my best to put out my Lizardmen lists ASAP after the DLC drops. Maybe even between the announcement and the release, but sometimes I like to look at the skill trees first.
  • PPerunPPerun Registered Users Posts: 320
    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
    PPerun said:

    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.

    I find this line of reasoning to be odd. Melee infantry and ranged infantry are two different buffs/categories just by themselves. Would you have such little variety in your army compositions?
  • SusaVileSusaVile Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,191

    PPerun said:

    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.

    I find this line of reasoning to be odd. Melee infantry and ranged infantry are two different buffs/categories just by themselves. Would you have such little variety in your army compositions?
    I agree. Often I find myself having to choose from either 2 to 3 lines of buffs from the red skill line, just to at least buff the three main types of units: infantry, flank, and ranged.

    I have come to love certain races precisely by their ability to buff more troop types with fewer skill points, like the orcs, for instance.
    Always learning, be polite, unless he's the enemy:P
    Cheers
    SusaVile
    Total war youtuber
  • DezpoDezpo Registered Users Posts: 39
    Since I also love DE, I have my one army themes too a bit different than you (I play on hard or very hard battle)

    Malekith
    1 Master
    1 Hag on cauldron
    1 Hydra RoR

    5 Black Guard
    4 dark shard
    1 medusae on cauldron
    2 Knight cold one
    2 black dragon
    2 reaper bolts

    1 Master as the "captain" of the Black guard, the hag for the little resist phy buff and the replenshiment same for the meadusae on cauldron She give nice buffs and debuff on melee.
    Its for make my line of black guard even stronger since they are the "elite" of Mlaekith army
    The Hydra RoR is a gift from Rakarth tho the master Malekith :d

    I put dark shards over Shades because they look more like "soldiers" and Malekith army need to be disciplined
    Black dragon and cold one for get archer / artillery enemy or defend flanks



    Morathi
    1 Shadow sorceress
    1 Assassin
    1 hag on cauldron
    1 RoR warlocks

    3 blacks guards
    4 Shadows
    1 warlock
    2 Hydra
    1 Medusa on cauldron
    2 Medusae
    2 black Dragon

    With Morathi I tried to focus on her magic mastery, there an item that debuff -22% the resistance magic of all enemys around, I try to put it on all my heroes.
    Then most sunits got magic Attacks, Medusae, warlocks, Morathi and my heroes are equipped of magics weapons
    And for the black guard I buff them with the shadow sorceress buffs thats give + WS andf magic attack in an area
    I did give her shades because shes a bit Manipulative and work in the shadow

    Black dragon because they are strong and need some good supports


    Hellebron
    1 hag on cauldron
    2 hags on feet
    1 sorceress of beast
    1 RoR furies

    4 sisters of massacres
    1 furies
    3 Kharybdyss/ carnosaures with Rakarth
    1 C medusae
    2 Medusae
    2 warlocks
    1 black dragon

    I tried to make an only melee army (except for medusae) ala Vampires, because Hellebron need to feel the blood! obvioulsy sisters and furies, also I tried the only women in her army. Btw my sisters and furies beast choosen in melee with all thoses buffs and debuffs, they arent even armor piercing its impressive.

    The kharibdyss are here for the anti large need, Medusae and hag on cauldron give good supports for the sisters.
    With all the offensives buffs Hellebrne give in area (blood something) I decided to give her a beast sorceresse for more defensif buffs, with the resist physic and speed bonus, and also the big area debuff of accuracy and melee attack, so my sisters can come close in melee without being annoyed by enemies archers

    The warlorck are also here for get archers in melee and give some supports with the debuff spell
    I had to put warlocks in this army because I had too much trouble with enemy archers and countering them.....



    Malus

    1 Master on cold one
    1 hag on cauldron
    1 sorceress of shadows (for the speed when casting) or dark
    1 RoR Knight on cold one

    4 blacks guard
    3 Knight on cold one
    1 cold one on chariot
    1 cauldron Medusae
    4 Shades
    2 black dragon

    Obivoulsy focus on Cold one, black guards are buffed with the hag and Medusae cauldron so they hold better
    The chariot can also supports them
    My shades are behind the black guard or on flank depending the enmy army, and if they are in trouble, the master and some cold one can help them
    2 black dragon because... its strong


    Here it is, i got also one for Lokhir and Rakhart but im a bit lazy to make it now
    Also sorry if my texts are a bit hard to read, English is not my first language
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
    SusaVile said:

    PPerun said:

    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.

    I find this line of reasoning to be odd. Melee infantry and ranged infantry are two different buffs/categories just by themselves. Would you have such little variety in your army compositions?
    I agree. Often I find myself having to choose from either 2 to 3 lines of buffs from the red skill line, just to at least buff the three main types of units: infantry, flank, and ranged.

    I have come to love certain races precisely by their ability to buff more troop types with fewer skill points, like the orcs, for instance.
    Some of the VC Bloodline Lords have that kind of skill, too. It is quite nice, you are right.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
    Dezpo said:

    Since I also love DE, I have my one army themes too a bit different than you (I play on hard or very hard battle)

    Malekith
    1 Master
    1 Hag on cauldron
    1 Hydra RoR

    5 Black Guard
    4 dark shard
    1 medusae on cauldron
    2 Knight cold one
    2 black dragon
    2 reaper bolts

    1 Master as the "captain" of the Black guard, the hag for the little resist phy buff and the replenshiment same for the meadusae on cauldron She give nice buffs and debuff on melee.
    Its for make my line of black guard even stronger since they are the "elite" of Mlaekith army
    The Hydra RoR is a gift from Rakarth tho the master Malekith :d

    I put dark shards over Shades because they look more like "soldiers" and Malekith army need to be disciplined
    Black dragon and cold one for get archer / artillery enemy or defend flanks



    Morathi
    1 Shadow sorceress
    1 Assassin
    1 hag on cauldron
    1 RoR warlocks

    3 blacks guards
    4 Shadows
    1 warlock
    2 Hydra
    1 Medusa on cauldron
    2 Medusae
    2 black Dragon

    With Morathi I tried to focus on her magic mastery, there an item that debuff -22% the resistance magic of all enemys around, I try to put it on all my heroes.
    Then most sunits got magic Attacks, Medusae, warlocks, Morathi and my heroes are equipped of magics weapons
    And for the black guard I buff them with the shadow sorceress buffs thats give + WS andf magic attack in an area
    I did give her shades because shes a bit Manipulative and work in the shadow

    Black dragon because they are strong and need some good supports


    Hellebron
    1 hag on cauldron
    2 hags on feet
    1 sorceress of beast
    1 RoR furies

    4 sisters of massacres
    1 furies
    3 Kharybdyss/ carnosaures with Rakarth
    1 C medusae
    2 Medusae
    2 warlocks
    1 black dragon

    I tried to make an only melee army (except for medusae) ala Vampires, because Hellebron need to feel the blood! obvioulsy sisters and furies, also I tried the only women in her army. Btw my sisters and furies beast choosen in melee with all thoses buffs and debuffs, they arent even armor piercing its impressive.

    The kharibdyss are here for the anti large need, Medusae and hag on cauldron give good supports for the sisters.
    With all the offensives buffs Hellebrne give in area (blood something) I decided to give her a beast sorceresse for more defensif buffs, with the resist physic and speed bonus, and also the big area debuff of accuracy and melee attack, so my sisters can come close in melee without being annoyed by enemies archers

    The warlorck are also here for get archers in melee and give some supports with the debuff spell
    I had to put warlocks in this army because I had too much trouble with enemy archers and countering them.....



    Malus

    1 Master on cold one
    1 hag on cauldron
    1 sorceress of shadows (for the speed when casting) or dark
    1 RoR Knight on cold one

    4 blacks guard
    3 Knight on cold one
    1 cold one on chariot
    1 cauldron Medusae
    4 Shades
    2 black dragon

    Obivoulsy focus on Cold one, black guards are buffed with the hag and Medusae cauldron so they hold better
    The chariot can also supports them
    My shades are behind the black guard or on flank depending the enmy army, and if they are in trouble, the master and some cold one can help them
    2 black dragon because... its strong


    Here it is, i got also one for Lokhir and Rakhart but im a bit lazy to make it now
    Also sorry if my texts are a bit hard to read, English is not my first language

    Thank you for sharing! I can see that you've also put thought into your builds. What's great about this game is that it's a sandbox and that we are all free to build, expand, and allocate troops as we each wish. I probably couldn't get away with Dreadspears in my main army on Very Hard, but with my thematic builds, I don't min/max, as useful as that approach can be.

    Also, you wrote pretty well for English not being your native language. I took about five years of Spanish, but haven't used it for longer than that...so I probably couldn't write something like this up.
  • Kouran_DarkhandKouran_Darkhand Registered Users Posts: 698
    edited June 2021
    Well, some of your choices are strange or not as lorefriendly as one could imagine when using themes for armies.

    -Malekith would prefer:
    1 Master on foot (recalled to Kouran Darkhand).
    6 Black Guards.
    5 Darkshards (shields).
    3 Repeater Bolt Throwers.
    4 Dreadknights with Dreadbanner.
    I tend to respect the TT harmony between basic, special and rare units, so I rarely give Black Guards to normal lords, and when I do it, never more than 1-2. Malekith, however, is always deployed with BG spam.
    You could change 2 Dreadknights for 2 Black Dragons too. I don’t do it because I can’t bear the imagen of dragons with no riders on them, but Black Dragons are one of the things of Malekith.
    You should always recruit the masters with Spiteful trait, because it’s the best trait for them (+5% Weapon Strength for the entire army).

    -Morathi, comes with:
    1 Khainite Assassin called Shadowblade.
    2 Masters-lovers on Pegasus (to aid her in combat).
    3 Dreadspears.
    1 Icebleads (RoR).
    4 Shades dual weapons.
    2 Hydras/Bloodwrack Shrines.
    2 Dreadknights.
    2 Doomfire Warlocks.
    2 Black Guards.
    Morathi likes to use his toy Shadowblade, so he can stay with her. I use all the skills on combat abilities, both melee and range. No waste on campaign skills. Apart of him, no khainite units in her army. However, as the Supreme Hag, she could have them in theory. I just prefer to differentiate her from the Temple of Khaine.
    The Black Guards are a present from Malekith... and how he ensures the loyalty of her mother, apart of knowing what is he doing always. Doomfire Warlocks, as “Slaanesh” units and doomed by Malekith, are perfect for Morathi.

    -Hellebron despises Ghrond, Morathi and her sorceresses, so no magic for Helly.
    1 master on foot to represent Tullaris Dreadbringer.
    3 Death Hags on Blood Cauldrons. Strider is always their best trait, so they can cross through forests with no penalties.
    6 Witch Elves.
    5 Har Ganeth Executioners.
    2 Manticores.
    2 Dreadknights.
    No Sisters of Slaughter in Helly’s army because they don’t worship Khaine, so they would end beheaded before the Temple despite how CA decided to bring them along with Hellebron.
    Manticores are sacred for Khainites so it makes perfect sense in her army.
    Dreadknights are a placeholder to diverse the army until the Statues of Khaine come with the awaited last DLC for the Druchii.

    -Malus, comes with:
    1 sorceress (knowledgeable is always the superior trait).
    1 master on chariot.
    4 Dreadspears.
    4 Darkshards with shields.
    3 Dreadknights with Banners of Hag Graef.
    2 Executioners.
    2 Repeater Bolt Throwers.
    2 Black Guards.
    Malus is always leading “low profile” soldiers in his suicidal missions, so he needs to come with that number of basics. Malekith sends the Black Guard to “protect” Malus, while the Executioners follow Malus as the Scourge of Khaine.
    The Dreadknights, as the Black Guards and executioners, are premium units which need to be given to certain characters. Malus, however, is the drachau of Hag Graef, so he can have them.

    Regular armies:

    Supreme Sorceress/Dreadlord:
    1 Master/Sorceress.
    1 Khainite Assassin.
    5 Dreadspears.
    4 Darkshards with shields.
    2 Cold One Knights.
    2 Hydras/Manticores.
    3 Repeater Bolt Throwers.
    1 Black Guard/Black Dragon/Death Hag on Blood Cauldron, or Bloodwrack Shrine instead of the Hag if the general is a Supreme Sorceress.

    Black Ark Admirals / Fleetmasters:
    1 Sorceress.
    1 Black Ark Reaver (hero from SFO)/Khainite Assassin if playing without mods.
    5 Black Ark Corsairs.
    8 Black Ark Corsairs with handbows.
    2 Harpies/Manticores.
    2 Kharibdyss.
    With the name of power Krakenlord and the talent of Lokhir that is factionwide, black ark corsairs are really dangerous, specially the handbow version.
    If they get a different name of power you can take units according to this name of power.

    Power names:

    -Khainescourge on Black Dragon.
    1 sorceress.
    2 Masters on Pegasus.
    2 Death Hags on Blood Cauldrons.
    6 Witch Elves.
    4 Executioners.
    2 Cold One Knights.
    2 Black Guards renamed to Khainescourge’s Blood Guard. Give them the Blood Banner.
    Post edited by Kouran_Darkhand on
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • BayesBayes Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,134
    PPerun said:

    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.

    I am also a stickler for those hero points and I do not like spending 9 points just for the first part of the red tree.

    Thankfully for some races including dark elves the second point is the best point in a red skill. The one that buffs elite infantry for example give +6 ma and md at 2 points and +8 ma and md at 3 points. So if I want more than 2 categories(which I do with dark elves) I just put 2 points instead of 3.
    If you see this lost little fellow please help him find his way home.
  • PPerunPPerun Registered Users Posts: 320

    PPerun said:

    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.

    I find this line of reasoning to be odd. Melee infantry and ranged infantry are two different buffs/categories just by themselves. Would you have such little variety in your army compositions?
    Well, if its supposed to be thematic then yeah
    I mean, there are usually, like at least three units in each category so you can choose from 6 units.
    You have that little variety and are forced to perform the best with what you have. I see bringing more units to compensate weaknesses of a build a bit lazy.
    And if you really want variety just have a reinforcing lord nearby with completely different units and specialisation.
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,685
    I only played Ratkarth and Lokhir extensively:

    Rakarth: Full on menagerie. No real organised troops, just monsters, characters and a couple of relevant units (Scourgerunner charriots). I try to get at least one of each, except the squigs because I really have other things to do. I also try to use the free harpies:

    Characters
    Rakarh on Black Dragon
    Sorceress Beasts on Dark Pegasus - She summons a Manticore early in the battle as a sacrificial tool for the monsters to rush the ennemy.
    Master on Cold One

    Main Monsters
    2 War Hydras
    2 Kharybdiss
    1 Carnosaur
    1 Mammoth
    1 Stegadon
    1 Black Dragon

    Back line, archers and artillery harassing units
    4 Harpies including RoR
    1 Giant Wolves
    1 Cold Ones

    Range and Artillery, can also be used to slow down targetted troops
    1 Ravagers of Rakarth
    1 Bloodwrack Medusae (or alternatively the RoR)
    1 Repeater Bolt Thrower (the one you start with, I justify it as an harpoon).

    -> This is really fun. Basically the summoned Manticore engage the ennemy army, This leaves a small window to send the Monsters with breath attacks (Hydras, Kharibdyss, Dragons including Rakarth) to soften the targets before charging with the other monsters. The Harpies and fast unit then go in the back and deal with Archers/Artillery. And then the ranged unit focus the units already engaged with the Monsters, with a priority on any anti-large the ennemy might have. The Ravagers are also used to kite such units if I can (with Rakarth skill it's really easy).

    Lokhir: Play it like a full on pirate - Corsairs, Sea themed monsters and range artillery
    1 Lohkir on foot
    1 Master on foot
    1 Sorceress Death has my preference over Fire

    4 Black Ark Corsairs
    6 Black Ark Corsairs - Crossbow
    2 Harpies - Harpies are known to always be close to the sea and around ships
    2 Kharybdiss
    3 Reaper Bolt Throwers
  • DezpoDezpo Registered Users Posts: 39
    @Kouran_Darkhand

    My army are maybe not lore friendly but im not an expert of lore, I just like the license and like Goldfishlord said, its a sandbox so you can invent your own thematic and have ur own reasons to put this or that in an army

    Also it need to be competitive when you play in harder difficulty, for exemple black ark corsairs and furies can't be viable in end game, so i switch them with executionner or sisters of masacre.


    Lokhir feet
    1 hag on feet
    1 sorceress of death
    1 master on feet
    1 Ror medusae


    3 Executionner
    3 corsairs black ark with crossbow
    4 Kharybdyss
    2 black dragon
    2 repaer bolt

    I give them banner that speed up them, so they can rush the enemy easier

    I tried a build for debuff moral here
    Lokhir and Karybdiss got passif that debuff the enemy morale
    The sorceress of death got also buffs for negatif moral
    The master can have a name of power where his attack debuff the leader ship so it spretty fun

    They are all on foot, because they follow Lokhir (except sorceress on pegase)

    The executionner are in my vision elite black ark corsairs, because the normal one cant hold the line enough
    Kharybdiss for the anti large need and sea monsters, I also pretend that the meadusae RoR is a sea monster.

    And black dragon as always for the mobility they give for get enemy archer/ artillery and support where I need



    Rakhart

    1 Master on Manticore (Yeah I have a mod for that...)
    1 sorceress of beast
    1 RoR scourge runner

    4 Shades
    3 scourge runners
    2 Hydras
    2 Kharybdiss
    2 Carno
    2 Drake
    1 Mamoth

    all with banner that give charge bonus

    I try to play hit and run with them, with lot of charges (its sometimes diffcult for your monster to get out)
    The sorceress of beast can give them pretty nice buffs (the resist and speed bonus) and the big area debuff for enemy so your monster hold easier
    Too bad there no sorceress of life....

    The shades and scourgerunner are the beast tamer, and cover my monsters



    DreadLord with crossbow with horse
    1 sorceress of shades pegase
    1 assassin he can have an item that buff ambush chance and piercing projectiles for x times
    1 Hag on feet
    1 master on Manticore
    1 RoR pegases archers


    6 shades with speed banner
    4 darkridder crossbow
    2 warlocks
    2 sisters of massacre



    This is my special ambush army
    Shades are here for hit and run with the banner speed, and the sorceress every time she cast give speed too

    The hag on feet with sisters of massacre are like "assassins" they try to block enemy cavalery who try to get my shades
    same for the master
    Warlock are great support with spell abilty and try to get the isolate archer (since its an army ambush and my shades and darkrider run every where the enemy split his army easy
    The assassin and the Dreadlord got the item that give buff to piercing armor projectiles for buff the shades and crowwbow riders

    I could use a fire sorceress for buff the archers projectiles too



    For Lokhir and the dreadLord crossbow, hero can hold pretty well with the right item and health potion so its fun

    Here it is



    Now im waiting for Tullaris to come !

    Il give him executionners, fire sorceress for burn the heretics ! and then lets see.... hope he will get Khainites statues, because for the anti large I dont really wanna give him black guard or khardybyss.
    Maybe carnosaures if I play with rakarth, they fit well khaine in my opinion
  • Kouran_DarkhandKouran_Darkhand Registered Users Posts: 698
    I play in legendary always, and I have no problem with thematic armies. This game is too easy when you’ve played thousands of hours like me haha.

    I always try to do it lorefriendly and thematic to roleplay and enjoy it more, but if you enjoy it more in your way, then do it your way!
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • DezpoDezpo Registered Users Posts: 39
    Yeah agree
    But that don't change the fact that black ark corsairs perfom very bad compared to executionner for exemple

    experiences and skill don't change the stats of units. Its for avoid recruiting / remplishement and keep pushing enemy lines.
  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 1,685
    Hum @Dezpo I wouldn't say that. Under Lokhir Black Ark corsairs have stalk right?

    So of course they won't perform well as a frontline, but if you use them to go behind the lines and thrash archers and artillery while your monsters & characters anchor the ennemy frontline and your range units destroy them, then this is how I am using them.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,519
    My Dark Elf lore knowledge isn't that great, but:
    As basically the head Dreadlord Malekith is probably well suited for the more conventional units, not being specifically associated with any particular subfaction/theme. In the end everyone bows to him though. But yeah, the black guard is his and are ideal whilst he's also the guy with the most black dragons iirc. The issue with the more conventional stuff is, that it's mostly low tier.
    I guess with Malus it's a similar deal, just without dragons and black guard.

    Morathi on the other hand is the supreme sorceress so maybe another one of them might be thematic (if somewhat redundant for gameplay). But them again she'll always have a couple of masters and dreadlords wrapped around her finger. Interestingly though, Medusae are actually sorceresses cursed by her. Thus they technically fall under her command even if probably holding a major grudge against her (so also cool for Hellebron?). Doomfire Warlocks seem to be a good idea too.

    Hellebron's status as high priestess of Khaine probably means all types of Khainite units and heroes: Assassins (!!!), Death Hags (kinda redundant), Cauldrons, witch elves and Executioners.

    Can't say much about Rakarth and Lokhir besides them being the best beast master or Corsair respectively. Maybe avoid the Kharibdis und Lokhir though. IIRC as aquatic animals they become uncontrolable in the water and thus need to be kept as far away from the ocean as possible. Also as the bombardements of the arks are powered by sacrificed slaves, contingents of Witch Elves and Death Hags appear to be vital parts of their crews.
  • Kouran_DarkhandKouran_Darkhand Registered Users Posts: 698
    Dezpo said:

    Yeah agree
    But that don't change the fact that black ark corsairs perfom very bad compared to executionner for exemple

    experiences and skill don't change the stats of units. Its for avoid recruiting / remplishement and keep pushing enemy lines.

    Confederate Lokhir, then use the skill point to get +50% AP and Ranged AP for all Corsairs factionwide. Get the Krakenlord and all skills to buff Corsairs with your Black Ark Admirals and you will have one of the most powerful units in DE roster. They are still a little Glass Cannon, but they can destroy even Chaos Warriors and Chosen with the absurd high AP for basic units.

    @LennoxPoodle your knowledge of the DE lore is better than many users around here. You’re completely right, Morathi doomed the Medusaes. I tend to bring them with Morathi and the Supreme Sorceresses. I forgot to put them in the list because I’ve been too busy lastly and I haven’t been able to play. Thanks for remind me! I will edit my list to put them.
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Registered Users Posts: 1,519
    @Kouran_Darkhand Thinking about it, isn't the Medusa on the Bloodwrack shrine a prisoner/bound? So maybe that fits Morathi even better than the one on "foot", parading her victim around.
  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 2,029



    -Morathi, comes with:
    1 Khainite Assassin called Shadowblade.
    2 Masters-lovers on Pegasus (to aid her in combat).
    3 Dreadspears.
    1 Icebleads (RoR).
    4 Shades dual weapons.
    2 Hydras/Bloodwrack Shrines.
    2 Dreadknights.
    2 Doomfire Warlocks.
    2 Black Guards.
    Morathi likes to use his toy Shadowblade, so he can stay with her. I use all the skills on combat abilities, both melee and range. No waste on campaign skills. Apart of him, no khainite units in her army. However, as the Supreme Hag, she could have them in theory. I just prefer to differentiate her from the Temple of Khaine.
    The Black Guards are a present from Malekith... and how he ensures the loyalty of her mother, apart of knowing what is he doing always. Doomfire Warlocks, as “Slaanesh” units and doomed by Malekith, are perfect for Morathi.

    Well, that's a pretty big mistake. Shadowblade isn't subject to Morathi. Shadowblade is Hellebrons most trusted lieutenant, and so, would probably never work for Morathi.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • Kouran_DarkhandKouran_Darkhand Registered Users Posts: 698
    Yannir said:



    -Morathi, comes with:
    1 Khainite Assassin called Shadowblade.
    2 Masters-lovers on Pegasus (to aid her in combat).
    3 Dreadspears.
    1 Icebleads (RoR).
    4 Shades dual weapons.
    2 Hydras/Bloodwrack Shrines.
    2 Dreadknights.
    2 Doomfire Warlocks.
    2 Black Guards.
    Morathi likes to use his toy Shadowblade, so he can stay with her. I use all the skills on combat abilities, both melee and range. No waste on campaign skills. Apart of him, no khainite units in her army. However, as the Supreme Hag, she could have them in theory. I just prefer to differentiate her from the Temple of Khaine.
    The Black Guards are a present from Malekith... and how he ensures the loyalty of her mother, apart of knowing what is he doing always. Doomfire Warlocks, as “Slaanesh” units and doomed by Malekith, are perfect for Morathi.

    Well, that's a pretty big mistake. Shadowblade isn't subject to Morathi. Shadowblade is Hellebrons most trusted lieutenant, and so, would probably never work for Morathi.
    Wrong. It has been hinted for decades now that Shadowblade could be a double agent for Morathi. This is in theory one of Morathi’s grudges.

    Shadowblade reports only to Hellebron; it is rumoured that she has used him to eliminate a great many of her political opponents. If this is the case, it would seem that only Morathi has so far been left untouched, but it remains to be seen if this is because the Hag Sorceress is a mark even beyond Shadowblade's ability, because the kill order has not yet been given, or because the master Assassin has other loyalties hidden even from Hellebron.

    @LennoxPoodle yeah, and they are also the superior option, buffing/debuffing around them.
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • YannirYannir Registered Users Posts: 2,029

    Yannir said:



    -Morathi, comes with:
    1 Khainite Assassin called Shadowblade.
    2 Masters-lovers on Pegasus (to aid her in combat).
    3 Dreadspears.
    1 Icebleads (RoR).
    4 Shades dual weapons.
    2 Hydras/Bloodwrack Shrines.
    2 Dreadknights.
    2 Doomfire Warlocks.
    2 Black Guards.
    Morathi likes to use his toy Shadowblade, so he can stay with her. I use all the skills on combat abilities, both melee and range. No waste on campaign skills. Apart of him, no khainite units in her army. However, as the Supreme Hag, she could have them in theory. I just prefer to differentiate her from the Temple of Khaine.
    The Black Guards are a present from Malekith... and how he ensures the loyalty of her mother, apart of knowing what is he doing always. Doomfire Warlocks, as “Slaanesh” units and doomed by Malekith, are perfect for Morathi.

    Well, that's a pretty big mistake. Shadowblade isn't subject to Morathi. Shadowblade is Hellebrons most trusted lieutenant, and so, would probably never work for Morathi.
    Wrong. It has been hinted for decades now that Shadowblade could be a double agent for Morathi. This is in theory one of Morathi’s grudges.

    Shadowblade reports only to Hellebron; it is rumoured that she has used him to eliminate a great many of her political opponents. If this is the case, it would seem that only Morathi has so far been left untouched, but it remains to be seen if this is because the Hag Sorceress is a mark even beyond Shadowblade's ability, because the kill order has not yet been given, or because the master Assassin has other loyalties hidden even from Hellebron.

    @LennoxPoodle yeah, and they are also the superior option, buffing/debuffing around them.
    I'm pretty sure it's just because Morathi is beyond Shadowblades ability. She's ancient so there must have been others more gifted than Shadowblade that thought they could take her out but failed. Any word to the contrary can be interpreted as DE power games, trying to sow distrust between Shadowblade and Hellebron.
    Ugh, I have spoken.
  • Kouran_DarkhandKouran_Darkhand Registered Users Posts: 698
    Yannir said:

    Yannir said:



    -Morathi, comes with:
    1 Khainite Assassin called Shadowblade.
    2 Masters-lovers on Pegasus (to aid her in combat).
    3 Dreadspears.
    1 Icebleads (RoR).
    4 Shades dual weapons.
    2 Hydras/Bloodwrack Shrines.
    2 Dreadknights.
    2 Doomfire Warlocks.
    2 Black Guards.
    Morathi likes to use his toy Shadowblade, so he can stay with her. I use all the skills on combat abilities, both melee and range. No waste on campaign skills. Apart of him, no khainite units in her army. However, as the Supreme Hag, she could have them in theory. I just prefer to differentiate her from the Temple of Khaine.
    The Black Guards are a present from Malekith... and how he ensures the loyalty of her mother, apart of knowing what is he doing always. Doomfire Warlocks, as “Slaanesh” units and doomed by Malekith, are perfect for Morathi.

    Well, that's a pretty big mistake. Shadowblade isn't subject to Morathi. Shadowblade is Hellebrons most trusted lieutenant, and so, would probably never work for Morathi.
    Wrong. It has been hinted for decades now that Shadowblade could be a double agent for Morathi. This is in theory one of Morathi’s grudges.

    Shadowblade reports only to Hellebron; it is rumoured that she has used him to eliminate a great many of her political opponents. If this is the case, it would seem that only Morathi has so far been left untouched, but it remains to be seen if this is because the Hag Sorceress is a mark even beyond Shadowblade's ability, because the kill order has not yet been given, or because the master Assassin has other loyalties hidden even from Hellebron.

    @LennoxPoodle yeah, and they are also the superior option, buffing/debuffing around them.
    I'm pretty sure it's just because Morathi is beyond Shadowblades ability. She's ancient so there must have been others more gifted than Shadowblade that thought they could take her out but failed. Any word to the contrary can be interpreted as DE power games, trying to sow distrust between Shadowblade and Hellebron.
    Being pretty sure about ambiguity intentionally put by GW since decades now lol
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429

    Well, some of your choices are strange or not as lorefriendly as one could imagine when using themes for armies.

    -Malekith would prefer:
    1 Master on foot (recalled to Kouran Darkhand).
    6 Black Guards.
    5 Darkshards (shields).
    3 Repeater Bolt Throwers.
    4 Dreadknights with Dreadbanner.
    I tend to respect the TT harmony between basic, special and rare units, so I rarely give Black Guards to normal lords, and when I do it, never more than 1-2. Malekith, however, is always deployed with BG spam.
    You could change 2 Dreadknights for 2 Black Dragons too. I don’t do it because I can’t bear the imagen of dragons with no riders on them, but Black Dragons are one of the things of Malekith.
    You should always recruit the masters with Spiteful trait, because it’s the best trait for them (+5% Weapon Strength for the entire army).

    -Morathi, comes with:
    1 Khainite Assassin called Shadowblade.
    2 Masters-lovers on Pegasus (to aid her in combat).
    3 Dreadspears.
    1 Icebleads (RoR).
    4 Shades dual weapons.
    2 Hydras/Bloodwrack Shrines.
    2 Dreadknights.
    2 Doomfire Warlocks.
    2 Black Guards.
    Morathi likes to use his toy Shadowblade, so he can stay with her. I use all the skills on combat abilities, both melee and range. No waste on campaign skills. Apart of him, no khainite units in her army. However, as the Supreme Hag, she could have them in theory. I just prefer to differentiate her from the Temple of Khaine.
    The Black Guards are a present from Malekith... and how he ensures the loyalty of her mother, apart of knowing what is he doing always. Doomfire Warlocks, as “Slaanesh” units and doomed by Malekith, are perfect for Morathi.

    -Hellebron despises Ghrond, Morathi and her sorceresses, so no magic for Helly.
    1 master on foot to represent Tullaris Dreadbringer.
    3 Death Hags on Blood Cauldrons. Strider is always their best trait, so they can cross through forests with no penalties.
    6 Witch Elves.
    5 Har Ganeth Executioners.
    2 Manticores.
    2 Dreadknights.
    No Sisters of Slaughter in Helly’s army because they don’t worship Khaine, so they would end beheaded before the Temple despite how CA decided to bring them along with Hellebron.
    Manticores are sacred for Khainites so it makes perfect sense in her army.
    Dreadknights are a placeholder to diverse the army until the Statues of Khaine come with the awaited last DLC for the Druchii.

    -Malus, comes with:
    1 sorceress (knowledgeable is always the superior trait).
    1 master on chariot.
    4 Dreadspears.
    4 Darkshards with shields.
    3 Dreadknights with Banners of Hag Graef.
    2 Executioners.
    2 Repeater Bolt Throwers.
    2 Black Guards.
    Malus is always leading “low profile” soldiers in his suicidal missions, so he needs to come with that number of basics. Malekith sends the Black Guard to “protect” Malus, while the Executioners follow Malus as the Scourge of Khaine.
    The Dreadknights, as the Black Guards and executioners, are premium units which need to be given to certain characters. Malus, however, is the drachau of Hag Graef, so he can have them.

    Regular armies:

    Supreme Sorceress/Dreadlord:
    1 Master/Sorceress.
    1 Khainite Assassin.
    5 Dreadspears.
    4 Darkshards with shields.
    2 Cold One Knights.
    2 Hydras/Manticores.
    3 Repeater Bolt Throwers.
    1 Black Guard/Black Dragon/Death Hag on Blood Cauldron, or Bloodwrack Shrine instead of the Hag if the general is a Supreme Sorceress.

    Black Ark Admirals / Fleetmasters:
    1 Sorceress.
    1 Black Ark Reaver (hero from SFO)/Khainite Assassin if playing without mods.
    5 Black Ark Corsairs.
    8 Black Ark Corsairs with handbows.
    2 Harpies/Manticores.
    2 Kharibdyss.
    With the name of power Krakenlord and the talent of Lokhir that is factionwide, black ark corsairs are really dangerous, specially the handbow version.
    If they get a different name of power you can take units according to this name of power.

    Power names:

    -Khainescourge on Black Dragon.
    1 sorceress.
    2 Masters on Pegasus.
    2 Death Hags on Blood Cauldrons.
    6 Witch Elves.
    4 Executioners.
    2 Cold One Knights.
    2 Black Guards renamed to Khainescourge’s Blood Guard. Give them the Blood Banner.

    Hey, thanks for the post. My compositions pull from gameplay elements first and other established lore second, but I definitely respect the more loreful aspect. I always try to use as much of the roster as possible while also making each LL's army feel operationally unique to the others. I am lacking in the deeper lore knowledge, I admit.

    In another thread, I had a guy say that a particular lord wouldn't be running with a 20-stack. For gameplay purposes, there's no good reason to ever NOT have a 20-stack, especially for your faction leader. Varied gameplay is certainly my primary objective with my builds, but as I have said and continue to say, I don't believe that there is any "rule" or one correct way to go about it.
  • GoldfishLordGoldfishLord Registered Users Posts: 429
    PPerun said:

    PPerun said:

    How do you justify units from three different categories in Lords' red skills?
    Two categories are required to unlock the high tier buffs and two categories is enough to build a reliable army from.
    Adding more units takes away from the theme of an army, making that build less pronounced.

    I find this line of reasoning to be odd. Melee infantry and ranged infantry are two different buffs/categories just by themselves. Would you have such little variety in your army compositions?
    Well, if its supposed to be thematic then yeah
    I mean, there are usually, like at least three units in each category so you can choose from 6 units.
    You have that little variety and are forced to perform the best with what you have. I see bringing more units to compensate weaknesses of a build a bit lazy.
    And if you really want variety just have a reinforcing lord nearby with completely different units and specialisation.
    We may have differing ideas about the term "thematic". It is a rather general word, to be fair. I don't just want to pull units that are specifically buffed by a LL, or tied to them mechanically, or from a specific part of their lore. That's some of it, but not all.

    For example, my process for Grombrindal went something like this: He starts with Irondrakes, a Gyrocopter (Brimstone Gun), and Miners (Blasting Charges). There's a clear fire theme going there with just the units that CA decided to give him, without it being stated anywhere. So, boom, you have Irondrakes, Gryocopters (Brimstone Gun), and Flame Cannons that fit into his army. That's specialist ranged infantry, war machines, and artillery just right there. What about melee infantry? The Dwarfs have enough options that end-game Miners would be dull and ineffective, so I could have gone with Ironbreakers to keep with the fire theme, but I decided on Longbeards (Great Weapons) for his melee infantry because Grombrindal is old, and the Longbeards are canonically the "oldest" infantry option in the roster. [Belegar has actual ties to Ironbreakers in the lore, I believe]. The Great Weapon variety was because Grombrindal himself uses a greataxe. Apart from that, I filled in what gaps I thought the army had, but kept those same units of out of the other LL builds for the Dwarfs. It made them all play battles a bit differently.

    Every "thematic" army will always have units with varying lore-friendly association to the Legendary Lord; none will be 100% verified by CA/GW, and I think that is intentional. I don't want to keep casting stones, but to me, seeing 1-2 units that you believe a LL identifies strongly with and then clicking "recruit" 10x each seems like the less thoughtful approach.

    I agree that not every army should have all unit types represented, but limiting yourself to two units types isn't even really a "build". You have a chassis and an engine, but no wheels, no steering wheel, etc.
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