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Implementing Nippon

VikingHuscal1066VikingHuscal1066 Registered Users Posts: 3,795
Now, I'm not talking about whether or not CA will make Nippon, but rather, how they might and maybe should go about building their roster and so on.


Now, I want to make one thing perfectly clear.


I can understand a lot of people wanting Nippon to have all sorts of Yokai and such Japanese mythologically inspired units in their roster.

But the worry I have is with the idea of Nippon becoming another Norsca. As in having so many monsters and so on units that all their human units will be completely overshadowed.

That's not to say I just want them to be nothing but human nits, I just simply don't want the cool human things like Nippon's samurai and ninja to be just some basic throw away units compared to their monstrous units, that's all.


I think that the ratio for humans to monstrous units for Nippon should be something lik 65-70% human and 30-35% monsters.

Now, that may not seem like a lot of monsters, but try to keep in mind a race like the Empire, which only has like two actually monstrous units in the forms of Demigyphs and Griffons. The same for Bretonnia and Hippogriffs.

Suddenly that 30% is starting to look a lot bigger huh?


Now, I'm just going to list a few "yokai" units and what they could be within Nippon's roster.


Monstrous Infantry

Oni: They should be akin to more muscular Ogres, looking more like Akuma from the Street Fighter games. They should come in two variants, those being dual spiked kanabo clubs or great two handed kanabo clubs.

Oni Samurai: More elite oni who wear armor somewhat similar to that of samurai, giving them considerably more protection.

They should come in 3 variants. One that wield no dachi swords as dual weapons, one who wield large swords that somewhat like katanas, and even wielding large guan dao or naginata style polearms.

These guys should have similar stats to the Ogre Maneaters, but higher leadership.


Kappa: Basically, they should be the "love child" of Zoats and Fimir, basically being big turtle men who have very high natural armor rating who wield large metal clubs and shields. Very tanky.


Monsters and War Beasts

Kitsune: Packs of quite large multitailed foxes that have flaming magical attacks. They should function somewhat like Flesh Hounds or White Lions. They could also have an ability that allows them to cause an explosion around themselves that does fairly decent damage.

Revered Kitsune: A much older and far more powerful Kitsune, that has nine tails and is wreathed in fire and lightning.

Their explosion ability would not only be bigger, but it would be really good again both armored and unarmored enemies.


Kirin: These dragon horse hybrid creatures would act as mounts for Nippon's heroes and lords, and their most elite warriors.

Serpentine Dragons: Eastern style dragons that are not only powerful monsters in their own right, but also have the ability to use some magic.


But those are just some creatures I could think of without making Nippon's whole roster monstrous units.

What do you guys think?
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Comments

  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 11,642
    edited July 2021
    Kislev was distilled down to Ursun, Ice and Bears.
    Cathay will likely be distilled down to Imperialism, Glory and Mythology Elements

    Nippon I think would do well to focus on undead Yokai, since theres a very large proportion of them.

    Nippon could likely be Samurai, Honour and Yokai.

    So undead samurai front line backed up by more elite human samurai; supported by skirmishing Ninja and human archer fire support, augmented by Oni as monstrous troops, with skirmishing horse archers, Gaki chaff backing the front line with a Gashadokuro as centerpiece unit. Army lead by either a Human Daimyo or a Kitsune Wizard.

  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,784
    To be honest, the one thing I would replace is the Eastern Dragon for Nippon.

    I would prefer if that is only a Cathay only thing.

    Instead, why not add Tengu as an elite melee flying infantry?

    They would be crow style fighters who could outduel harpies, but they wouldn't win prolonged engagements against more solid melee infantry.

    Making them able to quickly pick off ranged units or to flank infantry.



    They could look something like that which would make them pretty visually distinct.

  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 11,642
    edited July 2021
    SaintCorn said:

    To be honest, the one thing I would replace is the Eastern Dragon for Nippon.

    I would prefer if that is only a Cathay only thing.

    Instead, why not add Tengu as an elite melee flying infantry?

    They would be crow style fighters who could outduel harpies, but they wouldn't win prolonged engagements against more solid melee infantry.

    Making them able to quickly pick off ranged units or to flank infantry.



    They could look something like that which would make them pretty visually distinct.

    Instead of an Eastern Dragon could do the Gashadokuro:



    Tengu'd be good elite shock troops.

  • VikingHuscal1066VikingHuscal1066 Registered Users Posts: 3,795
    Amonkhet said:

    Kislev was distilled down to Ursun, Ice and Bears.
    Cathay will likely be distilled down to Imperialism, Glory and Mythology Elements

    Nippon I think would do well to focus on undead Yokai, since theres a very large proportion of them.

    Nippon could likely be Samurai, Honour and Yokai.

    So undead samurai front line backed up by more elite human samurai; supported by skirmishing Ninja and human archer fire support, augmented by Oni as monstrous troops, with skirmishing horse archers, Gaki chaff backing the front line with a Gashadokuro as centerpiece unit. Army lead by either a Human Daimyo or a Kitsune Wizard.

    I honestly don't think that trying to mix in 3 or 4 different types of races would be a very good idea.

    I think that it should just be mostly human samurai and such, with some Yokai in their roster as well.
  • SaintCornSaintCorn Registered Users Posts: 2,784
    Amonkhet said:

    SaintCorn said:

    To be honest, the one thing I would replace is the Eastern Dragon for Nippon.

    I would prefer if that is only a Cathay only thing.

    Instead, why not add Tengu as an elite melee flying infantry?

    They would be crow style fighters who could outduel harpies, but they wouldn't win prolonged engagements against more solid melee infantry.

    Making them able to quickly pick off ranged units or to flank infantry.



    They could look something like that which would make them pretty visually distinct.

    Instead of an Eastern Dragon could do the Gashadokuro:



    Tengu'd be good elite shock troops.
    A giant skeleton sounds fun, but I don't know if I would prefer if Nippon went into an undead direction.

  • DjauDjau Registered Users Posts: 11,642
    SaintCorn said:

    Amonkhet said:

    SaintCorn said:

    To be honest, the one thing I would replace is the Eastern Dragon for Nippon.

    I would prefer if that is only a Cathay only thing.

    Instead, why not add Tengu as an elite melee flying infantry?

    They would be crow style fighters who could outduel harpies, but they wouldn't win prolonged engagements against more solid melee infantry.

    Making them able to quickly pick off ranged units or to flank infantry.



    They could look something like that which would make them pretty visually distinct.

    Instead of an Eastern Dragon could do the Gashadokuro:



    Tengu'd be good elite shock troops.
    A giant skeleton sounds fun, but I don't know if I would prefer if Nippon went into an undead direction.
    Yokai generally lean pretty dark, so they'd either be evil, undead or chaotic if yokai are used.

  • VikingHuscal1066VikingHuscal1066 Registered Users Posts: 3,795
    SaintCorn said:

    To be honest, the one thing I would replace is the Eastern Dragon for Nippon.

    I would prefer if that is only a Cathay only thing.

    Instead, why not add Tengu as an elite melee flying infantry?

    They would be crow style fighters who could outduel harpies, but they wouldn't win prolonged engagements against more solid melee infantry.

    Making them able to quickly pick off ranged units or to flank infantry.

    That doesn't sound like such a bad idea, but I would like Nippon to have a nice big giant monster, without it being an undead unit.

    But maybe they could just make Tengu a type of flying infantry that is actually pretty decent. Able to see off minor things like Harpies and Bats pretty easily, but struggling against proper big bad flying creatures.

    Though I could see the Tengu having both sword and naginata variants, so that could be not as one sided as you might think.
  • VikingHuscal1066VikingHuscal1066 Registered Users Posts: 3,795
    edited July 2021
    SaintCorn said:


    A giant skeleton sounds fun, but I don't know if I would prefer if Nippon went into an undead direction.

    I have to heavily disagree with you on that dude.

    We don't need Nippon, which is known to be a living human nation to be turned into an undead race.

    I'd much rather see the Vampire Bloodlines be reworked into their own unique sub factions than ever see a race get turned into an undead one.
  • VikingHuscal1066VikingHuscal1066 Registered Users Posts: 3,795
    Amonkhet said:


    Yokai generally lean pretty dark, so they'd either be evil, undead or chaotic if yokai are used.

    Maybe, but I honest think that what Yokai they might give Nippon should be much like what Nippon could be like.

    Mostly neutral.


    Because I could see Nippon as a nation that has fought with Cathay before, but they've also worked together with them for the greater good, repelling a massive chaos invasion or two.

    But they did such things because they knew that if Cathay fell, they'd be next on the list.

    So Nippon is more about what is best for Nippon at the end of the day.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    edited July 2021
    Not really a fan of your interpretation of kitsune. They are largely more mystical and illusive creatures known for their transformative abilities (usually turning into beautiful women) Making them into a pack unit that would rip things apart with their teeth doesn’t really seem like it would do them justice. They are more mischievous then violent. Also foxes don’t work in packs.

    They would work better as a caster hero. Preferably one that can transform between fox and human form.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 1,386
    edited July 2021
    And can people stop trying to turn nippon into a undead race. We have races that do that, nippon has plenty to work with and undead is hardly a new exciting theme in warhammer. We literally already have a giant skeleton in-game.
  • SteelRoninSteelRonin Junior Member ChileRegistered Users Posts: 1,488
    I insist, I would love to see Nippon as a lawful evil faction, tradition, loyalty, order, but evil in the end. I don't want to see the obvious "good" samurais from shogun 2 total war...
  • Jote191Jote191 Registered Users Posts: 2,144
    Pretty cool stuff
  • SteelRoninSteelRonin Junior Member ChileRegistered Users Posts: 1,488
    Everytime we speak about Nippon, I remember the game Battle Realms, they have a lot of good concepts :D


  • Jon_SlowJon_Slow Registered Users Posts: 12
  • Jon_SlowJon_Slow Registered Users Posts: 12
  • Jon_SlowJon_Slow Registered Users Posts: 12
    Some entities from the japanese culture that could be adapted into the Warhammer universe

    Amaterasu, kinda of a caster lord/hero



    These below could be translated into some kind of skirmish units or light cav

    Bakeneko



    Baku



    Inugami














  • DarthEnderXDarthEnderX Registered Users Posts: 3,887
    edited July 2021
    Personally, I don't have any interest in any more human kingdoms in the east.

    I'd rather see Clan Eshin get it's own faction instead, using all the units Nippon would have had. Lorewise, the Nipponese WERE a thing, but the Skaven wiped them out, just like in Skavenblight. Afterwards they scavenged the remains of their civilization and appropriated parts of their culture.

    Give them their soldiers, samurai and ninjas, only like...corrupted(see enemies in Sekiro for some good examples of that). Throw in some Rat Oni(Rat Ogres with horns and eastern weapons), and yeah, some Tengu allies, and you've got an awesome new Warhammer faction that's not just more humans.

  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,339

    Personally, I don't have any interest in any more human kingdoms in the east.

    I'd rather see Clan Eshin get it's own faction instead, using all the units Nippon would have had. Lorewise, the Nipponese WERE a thing, but the Skaven wiped them out, just like in Skavenblight. Afterwards they scavenged the remains of their civilization and appropriated parts of their culture.

    Give them their soldiers, samurai and ninjas, only like...corrupted(see enemies in Sekiro for some good examples of that). Throw in some Rat Oni(Rat Ogres with horns and eastern weapons), and yeah, some Tengu allies, and you've got an awesome new Warhammer faction that's not just more humans.

    I really want Nippon, but that’s a pretty cool take, and if it were to be well executed I wouldn’t necessarily be upset at Nippon being replaced.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,339
    Jon_Slow said:

    Some entities from the japanese culture that could be adapted into the Warhammer universe

    Amaterasu, kinda of a caster lord/hero



    These below could be translated into some kind of skirmish units or light cav

    Bakeneko



    Baku



    Inugami







    Isn’t Amaterasu the supreme deity in Shinto? She’s the Imperial family’s link to claims of divinity subsequent legitimacy. Making her a playable character would be a huge disservice as it would be

    A. Copy pasting a real world divinity whole sale into Warhammer, which isn’t how things work in the setting

    B. Not representative of her power and importance. You couldn’t have the head of a pantheon as a playable character. The closest we should get should be Ariel, Kholek and Nagash.






  • AbmongAbmong Registered Users Posts: 3,793

    Personally, I don't have any interest in any more human kingdoms in the east.

    I'd rather see Clan Eshin get it's own faction instead, using all the units Nippon would have had. Lorewise, the Nipponese WERE a thing, but the Skaven wiped them out, just like in Skavenblight. Afterwards they scavenged the remains of their civilization and appropriated parts of their culture.

    Give them their soldiers, samurai and ninjas, only like...corrupted(see enemies in Sekiro for some good examples of that). Throw in some Rat Oni(Rat Ogres with horns and eastern weapons), and yeah, some Tengu allies, and you've got an awesome new Warhammer faction that's not just more humans.

    That's not how it went down, if I'm not mistaken, Nippon wasn't wiped out until late in the End Times, and the story of them getting wiped out wasn't even official, it was from the Josh Reynolds Ask FM Q&A. Official End Times didn't mention Nippon, just presumed dead, blew up like everyone else at the end.
    Something tells me this comment will get a Disagree
  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 6,527
    I want unrionically a sem that represent godzilla.


  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 3,148

    Personally, I don't have any interest in any more human kingdoms in the east.

    I'd rather see Clan Eshin get it's own faction instead, using all the units Nippon would have had. Lorewise, the Nipponese WERE a thing, but the Skaven wiped them out, just like in Skavenblight. Afterwards they scavenged the remains of their civilization and appropriated parts of their culture.

    Give them their soldiers, samurai and ninjas, only like...corrupted(see enemies in Sekiro for some good examples of that). Throw in some Rat Oni(Rat Ogres with horns and eastern weapons), and yeah, some Tengu allies, and you've got an awesome new Warhammer faction that's not just more humans.

    I would much prefer a cool samurai race than a 5th (including Thanquol) Skaven DLC. Though the reactions to 5 Skaven LPs would be hilarious.
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind, Khuresh & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • SpearmenSpearmen Registered Users Posts: 169
    Lol Kitsune.
    Nippon if even released should be done that very carefully to not look like a **** world of warcraft. Anyway Kingdom of Ind and Chaos tribes are much more interesting than Japan.

    Ready for war.
  • Beef545Beef545 Registered Users Posts: 764
    Nippon will come as LP pack for Cathay, nothing else is acceptable.
    The age of Men is over. The time of the Troll has come.
  • DeadpoolSWDeadpoolSW Registered Users Posts: 3,148
    edited July 2021
    Beef545 said:

    Nippon should only come as its own race, nothing else is acceptable.

    FTFY
    Nagash will rule again!

    Justice for Chaos Dwarfs, Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings, Nippon, Ind, Khuresh & the Hobgoblin Khanate!
  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 6,527
    Beef545 said:

    Nippon will come as LP pack for Cathay, nothing else is acceptable.

    A campagne pack is much better.


  • KrocodileKrew212KrocodileKrew212 Registered Users Posts: 312
    Personally it just won't be complete to me without at least something drawn from Japanese Kaiju movies. A Godzilla, a Mothra, even an Ororchi taking cues from King Ghidorah in a pinch.
    Team Ogre Kingdoms

    "We threatened to grind their bones up to make bread if they didn't pay. Course that's just a threat - it takes too long to grind 'em and most of this lot are just as 'appy to eat'em raw." -- Olag Skullcracker, Ogre Tyrant
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 20,476
    The faction could be split into 2 distinctive styles, the regular samurai style army with magical and limited monstrous aspects and an Ainu style people who are aligned to ancient gods and work with monsters and even Daemons.
    Beef545 said:

    Nippon will come as LP pack for Cathay, nothing else is acceptable.

    No.

  • LunaticprinceLunaticprince Registered Users Posts: 6,527

    Personally it just won't be complete to me without at least something drawn from Japanese Kaiju movies. A Godzilla, a Mothra, even an Ororchi taking cues from King Ghidorah in a pinch.

    I mean imagine they go the extra mile and it have a kaiju synce animation with the dreadsaurus.

    Of course nippon not need a kaiju, but they so recognizable, when you think of kaiju you think of japan.


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