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Lybaras, Khalida, and a rough campaign start

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  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,486

    Itharus said:

    Khalida and Kroqgar both are the red-headed stepchildren of their factions.

    That whole corner of the map needs a little touch up.

    It's spread out af, hard to defend, and the race mix is strange (room for more settlements, but not likely lore for them, sadly). That other LM faction really gets in the way of Kroq'gar for instance. They should have a higher chance to confederate, maybe. With half the map cut off there's also no convenient way for Kroq'gar to get to the desert or make contact with Tiktaq'to. He's also under attack from all sides and it takes 2-3 turns to reach any settlement from the others, and has a poorly defensible coast that Malus ravages (instead of going north to fight Eshin and Caledor like he should). I have not seen Kroq'gar AI survive past about turn 50 in a long time, other than a few scenarios where he has like 1 settlement for longer because Queek or Snikch got distracted for a minute. Usually Malus keeps him battered down until Queek comes along, but Malus rarely wins because of the distance involved and AI being bad at amphibious play.

    Then we have those island ports -- which INCORRECTLY do NOT connect to any other ports. This could be fixed by some simple tagging and I don't know why they don't... it's especially egregious for Imrik as it prevents him from trading until mid-game, which is crap for a high elf.

    But back to Khalida... yeah she's screwed. Under attack from ALL sides by Vampires, Lizardmen, Skaven, Greenskins, High Elves, and Dark Elves... all as Tomb Kings whose first 30-50 turns is something of a vulnerable nightmare (their early game needs a boost now that everyone else's is way stronger). She's also (let's not mince words) the most boring of the TK, the least "Tomb-Kingy" of the whole lot (weird goals, stands alone, has pretty body coverings, and has a strange origin). She could be so much more -- but if she were, that would detract of Neferata's uniqueness because let's be honest they are two sides of the same coin. Which is also our best hope of Khalida getting love -- when they inevitably add Neferata, they will almost have to improve Khalida because that right there is a truly ancient rivalry worthy of legend. They simply must destroy each other. Period. Unfortunately, that leaves her in limbo... until Neferata is announced as the PDLC, lol.

    But yeah... Khalida is... not fun. I have 0 interest in playing her at all because she's just not in a good place and is boring (Alarielle is also boring af but I digress). Her position also offers nothing unique, really. She's got nothing. You could have effectively the same campaign as Settra but without any of the headache or blandness.

    #MakeKhalidaGreatAgain

    How's Arkhan, btw? I have not played him because he is a loathsome traitorous bastard that serves a loathsome traitorous bastard. Him I have 3% interest in playing though, which is more than I can say for Khalida. So how is he? Khatep in ME is presently one of the hardest starts, and is fun, unless Taurox notices you before you have at least 2, preferably 3 armies... if he does, you die. You have nothing that can stop his stack. Period. Early TK desperately needs work now... their design philosophy is out dated. The research needs to be sped up and access to heroes and lords made better. Given that BM already share many of their mechanics, maybe some concepts could backflow into TK to improve their lot (early on at the very least).

    sounds like a fun and challenging campaign. leave tk alone, casuals. you have your mods for making everything op.
    Remember who you are talking to before you call me a casual, whelp.
  • DulahanDulahan Registered Users Posts: 331
    Mods are not the solution. Some of us prefer not to use them.

    And I totally agree Khalida's start is super rough, one of the hardest ones of the races I like to play.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,486
    See I don't think it's so much rough as just boring. I mean, it can be rough - but it brings nothing to the table. She's... bland. Khatep is equally or even more rough but far more interesting.

    I'm not asking for Khalida to be made easier, I'm asking for her to be made livelier. Poor choice of words for a tomb king, probably, but there it is. Just because she's (un)dead doesn't mean her campaign should make you wish you were out of blandness and boredom.
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 942
    Itharus said:

    See I don't think it's so much rough as just boring. I mean, it can be rough - but it brings nothing to the table. She's... bland. Khatep is equally or even more rough but far more interesting.

    I'm not asking for Khalida to be made easier, I'm asking for her to be made livelier. Poor choice of words for a tomb king, probably, but there it is. Just because she's (un)dead doesn't mean her campaign should make you wish you were out of blandness and boredom.

    Disagree, the most fun campaign, which you can lose in twenty turns pretty dynamic and tough. I think Khatep have easier start, because of Colosus and DE instead of hordes of zaurus.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,486
    You're looking at the wrong thing though. You're just looking at TK with a start that's less than ideal.

    Look at K H A L I D A herself. She's boring af with nothing really going on. It doesn't even matter how her campaign plays -- she's an incredibly uninspired character that needs something, ANYTHING to make her worth choosing. Doesn't have to be something powerful but it should at least be something interesting.

    As for Khatep -- if you get on the wrong side of the Sisters, Taurox, or Malekith (early on M) then it's going to be rough. If you just hide for 50 turns... yeah, easy, same as any TK.
  • roekkumroekkum Registered Users Posts: 422
    The fact that her legendary starting city in lore is just a minor settlement without a landmark actually puts me off playing her automatically. Her start could be challenging enough, if her province was more fleshed out and she was beset by vampires, but had a strong base of operations with some flavor to it, like walls, an unique look and some loreful bonus of some way or another. How it feels now is underdeveloped and forgotten, and then there's no fun to struggle, you know you only do it out of spite.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 5,594
    Khalida needs to get a ranged atttack. Currently, she is nonsensical: a melee only lord that buffs ranged units.

    Make her staff and magical missiles part of an actual ranged attack, so that she can harass the enemy while still buffing herself and the archers.



    Regarding campaign, i don't know what to say because i have never played lybaras.
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 942
    Itharus said:

    Look at K H A L I D A herself. She's boring af with nothing really going on. It doesn't even matter how her campaign plays -- she's an incredibly uninspired character that needs something, ANYTHING to make her worth choosing. Doesn't have to be something powerful but it should at least be something interesting.

    As for Khatep -- if you get on the wrong side of the Sisters, Taurox, or Malekith (early on M) then it's going to be rough. If you just hide for 50 turns... yeah, easy, same as any TK.

    Try to fight against HE tide or hordes of zaurus, its not so easy without SE units. Her campaign pretty dynamic in first 130 turns, the HE alliance of the coasts is pretty difficult to deal with. And if you dont end them until 100 turn, they could ask help from Tyrion or Teclis(but I prefer to kill him on 50-60 turns otherwise he 100% will confederate with brother and you will get forces of Ulthuan on back door of your empire). And Im not even talking about LM and their big chumpy monster stacks and Ripperdactyls, who can easely snipe your Caskets of Souls and survive a lot of range power. After when you deal with all of that you can start your crusade to Khemri. Unlike Khatep, for Khalida its pretty achievable to expand your empire to Black Pyramide. So I dont think her campaign is boring. Played on her many times and much more lost.

    Im talking about Legendary Vortex, didnt tried her in ME.

    For Khatep you can earn Casket of Souls on first 10 turns and campaign becomes much more easier, because DE dont have strong airforce early in game. So your Colosus can tank blobs, while Casket of Souls winning the game.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,486
    Ah I do not play Vortex, I got bored very quickly. I googled the story videos though, they were pretty cool for the most part.
  • MurmurlockMurmurlock Registered Users Posts: 942
    Itharus said:

    Ah I do not play Vortex, I got bored very quickly. I googled the story videos though, they were pretty cool for the most part.

    You could try it, its pretty fast. You can lost on turn three, because on that turn you have to face with stack of zaurus. and if you didnt taked the first city. It will lock you in your capital for 20 turns. And if you still will be weak, there is a high chance that on turn 30-40 Tehenuin and even Teclis will declare war on you.
    So it's like a race, you need to take your first city before turn 3, then gover all forces there and build 2 chariots. Along with garrison you will be able to deafeat stack of zaurus, but it would be pretty tough fight, try to maximize impact from your chariots, because you dont have enough range fire power to pierce their armor.
    After that you need to press on, because after few turns you will face another stack of zaurus with reinforcement. So you rush to next city and capture it, but dont stay long there. You cant stand vs stack zaurus, with beated up army and small garisson from new city.
    Retreat, after that gover your second army and first one on approaches of the second city. You need to be quick because, if you hesitate for a few turns, you will be crushed by two stacks of zaurus. Your 2 army + garisson is weaker than 2 armies of zaurus. So you need to rush third city with two armies and capture region. After that you need to stand your ground there and take the capital of enemy LM.

    After defeating your first enemy you can expand to east and kill Tehenuin. After that I advice to take Teclis from the game, he will be real pain in the ass in later stages, because he cant support you, because he sitting in the corner of the map, he will probably will take rich mountain regions, and there is significant chance that he willl betray you, when you will be fighting with HE of the coasts.

    Anyway it could be pretty fast campaign because you can lose in 20 turns. I suggest you to try it. Ofcourse Im talking about legendary difficulty, on others levels it wouldnt be so dynamic.
    From Kislev with Poorgrammar. :)
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