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Elemental of beasts or venom dragon: what wood elves need more?

lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 6,786
edited July 27 in General Discussion
Wood elves lack SEM, they only have 2.

Of these 2 options, which one would benefit their roster more?
Ariel only, no fads allowed.

Post edited by lucibuis on
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Comments

  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,991
    They don't need either. They want but they don't need it.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,153
    Christ alive, 2 SEMs is not a bad number, they don't "need" any.

    Honestly if WEs need anything, and they are definitely not screaming for anything as they are in a good spot and have no particular need of a DLC (as demonstrated by your one of ideas of a new SEM being just another dragon), it is some baseline tree spirits probably.
  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,197
    Treemen with briar-wood Javelins would have been cool.

    Otherwise no WE don't need either of these.
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,205
    Bloat is not a good look for a roster. Zoats are already pushing the envelope and the Wood Elves are probably one of the better made races in terms of roster and campaign.
  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,205
    Goatforce said:

    Christ alive, 2 SEMs is not a bad number, they don't "need" any.

    Honestly if WEs need anything, and they are definitely not screaming for anything as they are in a good spot and have no particular need of a DLC (as demonstrated by your one of ideas of a new SEM being just another dragon), it is some baseline tree spirits probably.

    Some more variants of dryads and ranged tree ancients and the like, but that's as far as that concept could stretch and it wouldn't be enough for any kind of DLC.
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 6,786

    Goatforce said:

    Christ alive, 2 SEMs is not a bad number, they don't "need" any.

    Honestly if WEs need anything, and they are definitely not screaming for anything as they are in a good spot and have no particular need of a DLC (as demonstrated by your one of ideas of a new SEM being just another dragon), it is some baseline tree spirits probably.

    Some more variants of dryads and ranged tree ancients and the like, but that's as far as that concept could stretch and it wouldn't be enough for any kind of DLC.
    Considering they also have meadow chariot, shadow dancer, characters, etc they would require a DLC at least
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • NemoTheElf101NemoTheElf101 Registered Users Posts: 2,205
    lucibuis said:

    Goatforce said:

    Christ alive, 2 SEMs is not a bad number, they don't "need" any.

    Honestly if WEs need anything, and they are definitely not screaming for anything as they are in a good spot and have no particular need of a DLC (as demonstrated by your one of ideas of a new SEM being just another dragon), it is some baseline tree spirits probably.

    Some more variants of dryads and ranged tree ancients and the like, but that's as far as that concept could stretch and it wouldn't be enough for any kind of DLC.
    Considering they also have meadow chariot, shadow dancer, characters, etc they would require a DLC at least
    That's dipping way into older editions and wouldn't really add anything that's already present in the roster.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,873
    It’s hard for me to think of anything that would actually enhance their gameplay/playstyle.

    I mean sure, I could think of stuff. Like the Tree Version of a Bone Giant. But then the Wood Elves start becoming more and more like the Skaven, where all their originally intended gaps and weaknesses start getting plugged by DLC…so asymmetry and theming gets thrown away just for the sake of adding ‘what’s missing’.

    So yeah, for the Wood Elves, there’s stuff they could add. But they truly don’t NEED anything. The Wood Elves were designed! to not have artillery in this game.

    *As a slight amendment to that point, as some Races have gotten triple DLC, they’ve accumulated quite a few RoR… way more RoR than their ‘single DLC’ counterparts. To this end, I would be okay if some of the ‘single DLC or less’ Races got a FLC RoR Pack. I’d be okay if the Wood Elves got a couple RoR in said Pack.

    Like an RoR Treeman or something with a BvL. But not a whole new ‘from scratch’ monster.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,153
    lucibuis said:

    Goatforce said:

    Christ alive, 2 SEMs is not a bad number, they don't "need" any.

    Honestly if WEs need anything, and they are definitely not screaming for anything as they are in a good spot and have no particular need of a DLC (as demonstrated by your one of ideas of a new SEM being just another dragon), it is some baseline tree spirits probably.

    Some more variants of dryads and ranged tree ancients and the like, but that's as far as that concept could stretch and it wouldn't be enough for any kind of DLC.
    Considering they also have meadow chariot, shadow dancer, characters, etc they would require a DLC at least
    Meadow chariot is pretty dumb, honestly it is not a big loss, if it was remotely important it would have been added in the last DLC instead of one of the non-Armybook units, but it isn't, so it wasn't.

    As to Shadowdancer it can be added as a FLC alongside Araloth if CA wants to add it, but I believe that the Glade Captain has some skills suggesting stands in for that role, but we will see.

    WEs really don't need a DLC at all, FLC would do them fine.
  • mecanojavi99mecanojavi99 EspañaRegistered Users Posts: 5,330
    No Fairy Dragons? Now this is weird.
  • DragonbroodlingsDragonbroodlings Registered Users Posts: 206
    lucibuis said:

    Wood elves lack SEM, they only have 2.

    Of these 2 options, which one would benefit their roster more?

    I think venom dragons would fit better thematically. I wouldn't say that they really need it though. I would like to see all of the bigger dragons in the game eventually.
  • Beef545Beef545 Registered Users Posts: 764
    edited July 27
    Venom dragon should be RoR, I really don't want another unit that is simply a direct upgrade.

    Elemental of beasts is ok, but I don't know if it belongs to WE roster.

    What I hope WEs receive in their next DLC(partially confirmed) are meadow chariots, ranged treants, shadow dancer + some low budget unit. That would do them just fine.
    The age of Men is over. The time of the Troll has come.
  • DragonbroodlingsDragonbroodlings Registered Users Posts: 206
    Beef545 said:

    Venom dragon should be RoR, I really don't want another unit that is simply a direct upgrade.

    Elemental of beasts is ok, but I don't know if it belongs to WE roster.

    What I hope WEs receive in their next DLC(partially confirmed) are meadow chariots, ranged treants, shadow dancer + some low budget unit. That would do them just fine.

    That's a good way of doing it. I would like it to be a quest unlocked RoR too. The instant recruited, nearly unearned aspect of the current RoR system is crap to me. I want cooler quests to do!
  • manpersalmanpersal Registered Users Posts: 2,239
  • Pico0Pico0 Registered Users Posts: 198
    Beef545 said:

    Venom dragon should be RoR, I really don't want another unit that is simply a direct upgrade.

    Elemental of beasts is ok, but I don't know if it belongs to WE roster.

    What I hope WEs receive in their next DLC(partially confirmed) are meadow chariots, ranged treants, shadow dancer + some low budget unit. That would do them just fine.

    Agreed but I think Elementals of beast is more aligned with disorder if I remember correctly, so maybe it would fit better with beastmen.

    Overall I think if we get something for WE it will probably be at the end of game 3 lifecycle, as there will probably be some new content for Bretonnia, Norsca, and Vampire counts before they get back to the recently updated races.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,991
    Beef545 said:

    Venom dragon should be RoR, I really don't want another unit that is simply a direct upgrade.

    Elemental of beasts is ok, but I don't know if it belongs to WE roster.

    What I hope WEs receive in their next DLC(partially confirmed) are meadow chariots, ranged treants, shadow dancer + some low budget unit. That would do them just fine.

    I feel the Venom Dragon fits better with Imrik. Given Imrik is the Dragon guy and the Wood Elves and Dank Elfs don't need more. And if anyone should get Emperor Dragons it would be the High Elves and Imriks Dragon Pokémon seems better fitting for Emperor Dragons.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 7,396

    They don't need either. They want but they don't need it.

    Yap that's truth right there.


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  • brahimivksbrahimivks Registered Users Posts: 133
    Here we go again
  • MrDragonMrDragon Registered Users Posts: 2,426
    Would Elves already had a good roster prior to their update, it's just that their campaign was atrocious.
    Now they have both and excellent campaign and one of the most fun rosters in the game.
    They do not need extra monsters, especially not ones that won't compliment their playstyle or compete with ones they have.

    However, like previously, feel free to mod them in. I'll gladly try your Beast Elemental or Life Elemental mods when they come out.
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 6,786
    MrDragon said:

    Would Elves already had a good roster prior to their update, it's just that their campaign was atrocious.
    Now they have both and excellent campaign and one of the most fun rosters in the game.
    They do not need extra monsters, especially not ones that won't compliment their playstyle or compete with ones they have.

    However, like previously, feel free to mod them in. I'll gladly try your Beast Elemental or Life Elemental mods when they come out.

    They still have one of the smallest rosters and several missing units from new and older army books
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 7,153
    lucibuis said:

    MrDragon said:

    Would Elves already had a good roster prior to their update, it's just that their campaign was atrocious.
    Now they have both and excellent campaign and one of the most fun rosters in the game.
    They do not need extra monsters, especially not ones that won't compliment their playstyle or compete with ones they have.

    However, like previously, feel free to mod them in. I'll gladly try your Beast Elemental or Life Elemental mods when they come out.

    They still have one of the smallest rosters and several missing units from new and older army books
    An example of which is the Meadow Chariot for gods sake, which is hardly a good fit for their modern interpretation. The WEs have not got a massive roster, but that doesn't make it bad. They have very little missing, have some suplementary stuff now, and what is missing and is vaguely relevant can be added in as FLC. The WEs are in better condition in terms of roster completeness and campagn experience than the majority of races in the game tbh.

    Adding stuff in for the sake of adding stuff in is just bloat, and other races have stuff they are actually missing. WEs are not supposed to be a monster mash race, whacking in a load of SEs for the sake of it would not give them anything meaningful, especially when it is what is essentially just a bigger dragon (or on a different note a pretty stupid unit like the Meadow Chariot which I believe was phased out of the line, probably because it didn't fit with the race very well).
  • Kouran_DarkhandKouran_Darkhand Registered Users Posts: 698
    edited July 28
    Extinction.

    And burning the Oak along Loren.
    You are the true king of the elves, Malekith. You are the son of Aenarion, champion of the Daemon War, heir to the Phoenix Crown. It is your right by deed, merit and birth and I would give my life to see that ancient wrong reversed and your rightful position restored. As an elf I can think of no higher calling.



  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 6,786
    Goatforce said:

    lucibuis said:

    MrDragon said:

    Would Elves already had a good roster prior to their update, it's just that their campaign was atrocious.
    Now they have both and excellent campaign and one of the most fun rosters in the game.
    They do not need extra monsters, especially not ones that won't compliment their playstyle or compete with ones they have.

    However, like previously, feel free to mod them in. I'll gladly try your Beast Elemental or Life Elemental mods when they come out.

    They still have one of the smallest rosters and several missing units from new and older army books
    An example of which is the Meadow Chariot for gods sake, which is hardly a good fit for their modern interpretation. The WEs have not got a massive roster, but that doesn't make it bad. They have very little missing, have some suplementary stuff now, and what is missing and is vaguely relevant can be added in as FLC. The WEs are in better condition in terms of roster completeness and campagn experience than the majority of races in the game tbh.

    Adding stuff in for the sake of adding stuff in is just bloat, and other races have stuff they are actually missing. WEs are not supposed to be a monster mash race, whacking in a load of SEs for the sake of it would not give them anything meaningful, especially when it is what is essentially just a bigger dragon (or on a different note a pretty stupid unit like the Meadow Chariot which I believe was phased out of the line, probably because it didn't fit with the race very well).
    Can you stop with the content denial? Wood elves are the most played game 1 race, and are on par with vampire coast for games completed in game 2.

    That’s a massive incredible success, and they will get a t least a DLC + FLC in game 3 whether you like it or not. So let’s discuss what of these 2 units would be a better centrepiece.
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • TheWintersDragonTheWintersDragon Registered Users Posts: 21
    I feel like CA are gunning for at least 5-6 LL per faction, you can go ether two ways for a second dlc ether animals/shifters or spirtes mind you could have a mixture of both for example

    LL - Amadri dawnspear/Ironbark chosing this since hes got a story beef with slannish so there your rivialy in WH3
    FLC - Naieth the prophetess/Arealoth the bold/Wychwethyl the wild

    Hero: beastmaster/shadowdancer

    Unit 1 - Naiads/spites
    Unit 2 - Shapechangers/Wild animals (think of this unit as the tiger unit from 3k)
    Unit 3 - White Hart (centre piece unit, SEM with bound spells)

    you could have saber tooth tigers but thats more of a ogre thing now, and if they just want to re use assets then they could add wildwood wardens instead of those 3, as for the arugment that they have everything and there nothing else or they should not get any more dlc, I would stop that train of thought the moment zoats were made a thing the float gates were opened, besides it's been proven wrong time and time agian.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 29,913
    edited July 28
    I wouldn't say they need anything, and I don't think they need a DLC. They're done.

    That said elemental of Beasts would be the better choice.
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  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 4,955

    I wouldn't say they need anything, and I don't think they need a DLC. They're done.

    That said elemental of Beasts would be the better choice.

    This. While I do hope to see Araloth one day (I just want a regular dude as a choice in a race of demigods and sentient plants), he could be done as a FLC pretty well. WE likely won't see another LP unless theres something new in store for them via The Old World, which is hopefully the case for Bretonnia.
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  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,706
    Oh god he’s back. I was enjoying how relatively quiet and things have been around here.
  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 6,786

    I feel like CA are gunning for at least 5-6 LL per faction, you can go ether two ways for a second dlc ether animals/shifters or spirtes mind you could have a mixture of both for example

    LL - Amadri dawnspear/Ironbark chosing this since hes got a story beef with slannish so there your rivialy in WH3
    FLC - Naieth the prophetess/Arealoth the bold/Wychwethyl the wild

    Hero: beastmaster/shadowdancer

    Unit 1 - Naiads/spites
    Unit 2 - Shapechangers/Wild animals (think of this unit as the tiger unit from 3k)
    Unit 3 - White Hart (centre piece unit, SEM with bound spells)

    you could have saber tooth tigers but thats more of a ogre thing now, and if they just want to re use assets then they could add wildwood wardens instead of those 3, as for the arugment that they have everything and there nothing else or they should not get any more dlc, I would stop that train of thought the moment zoats were made a thing the float gates were opened, besides it's been proven wrong time and time agian.

    Nice suggestions, however I think:

    - I would love Amadri but I think Araloth and Maieth have preference, both lore wise and army book wise.

    - white hart is a great stag, they are already in game.

    I envision:

    DLC: The prophetess and the demon (Valkia or Nkari or some nurgle demon)

    Naieth: gameplay around prophecies, she can see the future or there is a prophecy that needs to become reality. She’s a mage of course, with lore of athel loren.

    Lore of athel loren: important addition. Especially tree singing would be a showy and powerful ability for CA to show, finally able to change terrain in battle. Game changer.

    Shadow dancer hero: similar to glade captain but melee only, no mount and dances, duellist (wood elves still don’t have a duellist hero)

    Elemental of beasts
    Venom dragon
    Naiads (incorporeal) or spites
    Beastmaster hero with wildcats, bears and boars

    FLC: Araloth

    This would still leave out meadow chariot, kinsmen (melee glade guards) and arrow variants
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 33,891
    lucibuis said:

    Wood elves lack SEM, they only have 2.

    Of these 2 options, which one would benefit their roster more?

    Empire has only one and then only as mount choice and Dwarfs have no SEMs at all.

    So, no, WE don't need any more monsters. They only need a bar of soap and a bath.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,005
    The former methinks.

    The Wood Elves could use one more DLC, they still don't have a pure caster LL, and Araloth is Araloth, he would make a fine vanilla Elf LL. Also, I want to hear Lileath.
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