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Warhammer's gunpowder is the worst thing ever. inexusable lazyness/incompetence by CA

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  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 939
    Cyresdog said:

    There is grittiness that used to exist in TW games that seems to be lost in the more modern games. I'd agree there is room to improve the sound design of cannons, gunfire and even cavalry and large monsters should be more earth shattering than they are.

    As far as music, I don't think I've really liked the soundtrack of a game since Rome 1. Med 2 was okay, just not as memorable as Rome 1.

    The thing is they showed us that they are capable of designing really cool music. I mean... again Mandalore sums it up perfectly with the vampire coast soundtrack
    True, I feel like too much of their music is designed to blend into the background, rather than try to take centerstage. For sure a matter of direction rather than a matter of skill.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,818
    Incidentally, has anyone else noticed a tendency for gunpowder units to fire over the heads of their targets when they have clear LOS?

    It doesn't happen all of the time, but when it does it's really REALLY noticeable. Particularly with the Grudge Raker and the uh... whatever that Vampire Coast Shotgun unit is. The name had some combination of Zombie, Pirate, Gunner, Hand, and... ??? I think it was Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Hand Cannons).

    When I tested the former in a custom battle I could see them firing volley after volley over the heads of the target, lowering their morale but not their HP.

    Just now I decided to try out the Grudge Raker in a Thorgrim campaign, and he had similar issues.

    I'm guessing it has to do with slight inclines/hills or something? I can only pray this gets fixed...
  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,292
    Sephlock said:

    Incidentally, has anyone else noticed a tendency for gunpowder units to fire over the heads of their targets when they have clear LOS?

    It doesn't happen all of the time, but when it does it's really REALLY noticeable. Particularly with the Grudge Raker and the uh... whatever that Vampire Coast Shotgun unit is. The name had some combination of Zombie, Pirate, Gunner, Hand, and... ??? I think it was Zombie Pirate Gunnery Mob (Hand Cannons).

    When I tested the former in a custom battle I could see them firing volley after volley over the heads of the target, lowering their morale but not their HP.

    Just now I decided to try out the Grudge Raker in a Thorgrim campaign, and he had similar issues.

    I'm guessing it has to do with slight inclines/hills or something? I can only pray this gets fixed...

    Put it in bug section.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • Data5Data5 Registered Users Posts: 39
    My biggest problem is mechanics. Why do archer reload in 9 sec and crossbow/handgunner in 11 sec? Why don't handgunners pierce sheilds?
  • EldrickEldrick Registered Users Posts: 615
    Zealotry (and alcohol) undermines every point you have made OP. Your subsequent comments damage it even further.

    I agree with some of your opinions but cannot support them in their current form. I also cannot agree with the extremity of the realism you want in the game. It is a totally unreasonable expectation.

    I enjoyed Troy personally and wonder why you needed to inject this game into your argument?

    Have another go at articulating your arguments and you should receive a better discourse. That is the best advice I can give you if you want to see changes made in the direction you wish for.



  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,475
    Agree that sounds in general should be better, smoke too. I understand not having a dozen different reloading animations though
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKRegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 39,820
    Quite a few comments removed. Please at least try to discuss the topic without personal commentary.

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  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,912
    edited July 24
    Maelas said:

    My only complain with ranged is that everybody fire in weird arcs, even crossbows ! What happened to just shooting straigh at your ennemies ?

    Yeah the F is this for a crossbow? Kinda like a mobile game in this regard tbh. And WH3 seems to be continuing with this arcadey, auto-adjusting trajectories.




  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 4,912
    Cyresdog said:

    Sound Design in general is pretty meh.
    Most things can be fixed with mods, sounds are sadly not one of them.

    Mandalore Gaming's review on Warhammer 2 summed it up nicely with the Music of different races. They are all extremely forgettable.
    Especially a game like TWW would benefit from an orchestra.

    With a game in this scale, music will quickly get repetitive though. Personally i'd rather rock my own music in background and let them divert their resources elsewhere.

    But sure, be a nice flavour if all races had some unique music.
  • Vova1408Vova1408 Registered Users Posts: 11
    Monsters will NOT be balanced, but nerfed to oblivion in Game 3! These idiotic "wounds" will put a big cross on the factions playing from monsters. Because 90% of the monsters after this really stupid innovation will become neutered and useless, which means they will never appear in multiplayer, and many of them are even in the company. It is not necessary to substitute concepts, and call the decision to nerf monsters to the level of an ancient salamander balancing!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 28,918
    Vova1408 said:

    Monsters will NOT be balanced, but nerfed to oblivion in Game 3! These idiotic "wounds" will put a big cross on the factions playing from monsters. Because 90% of the monsters after this really stupid innovation will become neutered and useless, which means they will never appear in multiplayer, and many of them are even in the company. It is not necessary to substitute concepts, and call the decision to nerf monsters to the level of an ancient salamander balancing!

    I love how confident you are without actually knowing anything, including whether or not it's a nerf. In concept it absolutely works and can absolutely be balanced.

    I struggle to see how this is on topic though.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

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  • PatriksevePatrikseve Member Registered Users Posts: 2,058
    edited July 24
    Reloading and smoke could also be due to taxing hardware. It might not be "lazy" just that they opted for best look to performance animations cost resources aswell and if you have many well. In Napoleon and older games more smoke put a strain on the computer. Same if you add weather, fog and else with mods in battles in Warhammer 2. Maybe they have amped some of this up with Warhammer 3. :)

  • Ulthuan_VolcanoUlthuan_Volcano Registered Users Posts: 299
    reject gunpowder; embrace bows and crossbows

    the elves and Bretonnia probably
    http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/ Ulthuan, Home of the Asur. If any high elf player is in the hobby too I would suggest you to check this forum.
  • mewade44mewade44 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,312
    INEXCUSABLE!
    LAZINESS!!
    INCOMPETENCE!!!

    Lol these posts are ridiculous.
  • ChoraChora Registered Users Posts: 392

    The issue here is the historical games were a single model that could. E replicated across the board in terms of animation. Not the case for WH.

    The do a specialised loading animation for more notable units like Jezzails. There’s probably more animation cycles (a lot more) in WH than any other game.

    For sure. It is just impossible and inconceivable that they could cut into their millions of dollars of profit to deliver a better product. It just couldn’t be done.

    We need to stop using the excuse, “well it’s work to do that” to justify half baked features.

    These aren’t little kids running a lemonade stand. I think it’s not too high a bar to suggest they could do more work to improve their game

    When a series releases a new game, new features are expected but you’d kind of hope they could at least include features which make sense from previous titles.
  • RockNRolla92RockNRolla92 Registered Users Posts: 2,063
    OP got banned so I dunno why they bothered keeping this thread open lol
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 28,918

    OP got banned so I dunno why they bothered keeping this thread open lol

    The thread topic is valid. It was doing to die off, but you just bumped it up.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

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  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 6,888

    OP got banned so I dunno why they bothered keeping this thread open lol

    The thread topic is valid. It was doing to die off, but you just bumped it up.
    No u


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  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 2,672

    OP got banned so I dunno why they bothered keeping this thread open lol

    The OP's point is perfectly valid for discussion...

    ...the OP's manners were not.


    Someone made a general point about the sounds in this series not being amazing... I hadn't considered it too much but I have to agree with that. No massive criticism, but I hope it's something they can work on for future titles.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,930
    Chora said:


    The issue here is the historical games were a single model that could. E replicated across the board in terms of animation. Not the case for WH.

    The do a specialised loading animation for more notable units like Jezzails. There’s probably more animation cycles (a lot more) in WH than any other game.

    For sure. It is just impossible and inconceivable that they could cut into their millions of dollars of profit to deliver a better product. It just couldn’t be done.

    We need to stop using the excuse, “well it’s work to do that” to justify half baked features.

    These aren’t little kids running a lemonade stand. I think it’s not too high a bar to suggest they could do more work to improve their game

    When a series releases a new game, new features are expected but you’d kind of hope they could at least include features which make sense from previous titles.
    Yeah, they could also fit in every complaint and add every little extra every other dweeb wants in here, then it would start cutting into profits.

    Have a look at the reviews and see how many you see crying about reload animations. I’d rather CA bother with important issues than minor aesthetic ones.
  • panda_express12panda_express12 Member Registered Users Posts: 313
    Some of these criticisms are valid. Older Total Wars have had reload animations and it would be nice if Warhammer had them too.
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  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,930
    Vova1408 said:

    Vova1408 said:

    Monsters will NOT be balanced, but nerfed to oblivion in Game 3! These idiotic "wounds" will put a big cross on the factions playing from monsters. Because 90% of the monsters after this really stupid innovation will become neutered and useless, which means they will never appear in multiplayer, and many of them are even in the company. It is not necessary to substitute concepts, and call the decision to nerf monsters to the level of an ancient salamander balancing!

    I love how confident you are without actually knowing anything, including whether or not it's a nerf. In concept it absolutely works and can absolutely be balanced.

    I struggle to see how this is on topic though.
    in order to understand that this is a nerf, it is enough just to be not stupid. "Wounds" castrate monsters, reducing their melee performance to oblivion (you should remember the detailed characteristics of the nerf in the videos). As we can see on almost all nerfed units (carnosaurs are especially indicative), after their weakening, the CA is not going to reduce the price for them (I don't need to talk about the ancient salamander, which after 10 years finally got a price reduction), which means there is a 99% probability that all monsters will remain at the same price in the third part, but with this idiotic innovation, which will completely cripple monsters from multiplayer, since no one will need castrates, especially for such money. Therefore, there is nothing to shut my mouth, anger is fully justified.
    Let’s wait and see before we lose our mind. A lot of people complain about single entities being too powerful and dominating the game - CA listened.

    It will either be better or not, however, it’s pointless assessing something before we even see it in action.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 28,918
    Vova1408 said:

    Vova1408 said:

    Monsters will NOT be balanced, but nerfed to oblivion in Game 3! These idiotic "wounds" will put a big cross on the factions playing from monsters. Because 90% of the monsters after this really stupid innovation will become neutered and useless, which means they will never appear in multiplayer, and many of them are even in the company. It is not necessary to substitute concepts, and call the decision to nerf monsters to the level of an ancient salamander balancing!

    I love how confident you are without actually knowing anything, including whether or not it's a nerf. In concept it absolutely works and can absolutely be balanced.

    I struggle to see how this is on topic though.
    in order to understand that this is a nerf, it is enough just to be not stupid. "
    I have no idea why you'd expect me to read anything beyond this.

    If you want me to read and respond to you you'll be civil. I've no interest in lowering myself to hurling insults.
    "There's no fun in picking on the weak. If you must, go for the mountain high, the language most foreign, target the strong." - Kenny Florian

    "Under construction" - Becky, daughter of Guanyin.

    "I like small words" - Winsy C

    Forum Terms & Conditions

    I am The Beast, Son of Guanyin, The one who beasts 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, The Vanilla Gorilla, Conqueror of Mountains, purveyor of wisdom, Official forum historian, Master Tamer of energy, the one they fear to name

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 14,292
    edited July 27
    Chora said:


    The issue here is the historical games were a single model that could. E replicated across the board in terms of animation. Not the case for WH.

    The do a specialised loading animation for more notable units like Jezzails. There’s probably more animation cycles (a lot more) in WH than any other game.

    For sure. It is just impossible and inconceivable that they could cut into their millions of dollars of profit to deliver a better product. It just couldn’t be done.

    We need to stop using the excuse, “well it’s work to do that” to justify half baked features.

    These aren’t little kids running a lemonade stand. I think it’s not too high a bar to suggest they could do more work to improve their game

    When a series releases a new game, new features are expected but you’d kind of hope they could at least include features which make sense from previous titles.
    its nice asthetic but there are lot more urgent areas CA need to spend time on but i do hope they do it eventually
    Vova1408 said:

    Vova1408 said:

    Monsters will NOT be balanced, but nerfed to oblivion in Game 3! These idiotic "wounds" will put a big cross on the factions playing from monsters. Because 90% of the monsters after this really stupid innovation will become neutered and useless, which means they will never appear in multiplayer, and many of them are even in the company. It is not necessary to substitute concepts, and call the decision to nerf monsters to the level of an ancient salamander balancing!

    I love how confident you are without actually knowing anything, including whether or not it's a nerf. In concept it absolutely works and can absolutely be balanced.

    I struggle to see how this is on topic though.
    in order to understand that this is a nerf, it is enough just to be not stupid. "Wounds" castrate monsters, reducing their melee performance to oblivion (you should remember the detailed characteristics of the nerf in the videos). As we can see on almost all nerfed units (carnosaurs are especially indicative), after their weakening, the CA is not going to reduce the price for them (I don't need to talk about the ancient salamander, which after 10 years finally got a price reduction), which means there is a 99% probability that all monsters will remain at the same price in the third part, but with this idiotic innovation, which will completely cripple monsters from multiplayer, since no one will need castrates, especially for such money. Therefore, there is nothing to shut my mouth, anger is fully justified.
    wound mechanic was proposed before the infantry knock down change as they could dominate the battle too much , the current system thats is coming to wh 3 is toned down version of that which will favour certain units and races over others , thats bad design but some thing that need to be discussed separately as to how to improve the system
    and also other finer balance changes needs to happen also.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,645
    I do really miss reload animations.

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  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 4,906
    The criticisms regarding the aesthetics of the gunpowder weaponry is sound. The closer it looks/sounds to the real thing, as they managed to nail in all of their historical titles, the better quality the game would be, full stop. So long as there were appropriate graphical options to minimize smoke and weather effects for players with lower end computers, there is no issue with doing so. Cutting costs for the sake of cutting costs itself is never beneficial to a game.

    That said my biggest gripe with firearm units is how wimpy they are. Don't get me wrong now, ranged units in general are overtuned that's true and armor, AP and shield block needs a major rework to make heavy infantry worth taking in both MP and in higher difficulties (campaign battle difficulties are just borked completely), but handgunners and thunderers are extremely underwhelming compared to their counterparts in all other TW titles. Arquebusiers/matchlocks destroy even the most fearsome infantry/cavalry in a single volley from medium to close range. Now I'm not advocating that Handgunners delete Chaos Warriors, Temple Guard, Black Orcs and Dawi face to face, some measure of the fantasy has to be kept alive with how ludicrously tough they are, but as it stands now fire arms have no functional difference from crossbows except that they accumulate slightly more damage over time. Gun units should have low rates of fire, but truely devastating impacts.
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  • Naygir_KillazNaygir_Killaz Registered Users Posts: 1,217
    Gunpowder units should have a fear or terror trait. Causing enemy units to prematurely rout after a few volleys was what differentiated gunpowder weapons from bows and crossbows in previous TW titles.
  • Shameless ImperialistShameless Imperialist Registered Users Posts: 65

    I do really miss reload animations.

    i could reccomed
    CBE mod pack and reloading mod to make gunpowder look a little better

    nothing for spound tho. does anyone know any sound mods?
  • Vova1408Vova1408 Registered Users Posts: 11

    Vova1408 said:

    Vova1408 said:

    Monsters will NOT be balanced, but nerfed to oblivion in Game 3! These idiotic "wounds" will put a big cross on the factions playing from monsters. Because 90% of the monsters after this really stupid innovation will become neutered and useless, which means they will never appear in multiplayer, and many of them are even in the company. It is not necessary to substitute concepts, and call the decision to nerf monsters to the level of an ancient salamander balancing!

    I love how confident you are without actually knowing anything, including whether or not it's a nerf. In concept it absolutely works and can absolutely be balanced.

    I struggle to see how this is on topic though.
    in order to understand that this is a nerf, it is enough just to be not stupid. "
    I have no idea why you'd expect me to read anything beyond this.

    If you want me to read and respond to you you'll be civil. I've no interest in lowering myself to hurling insults.
    Listen, I don't care deeply whether you will answer me or not ( nevertheless, you do it), everything that I wrote, I wrote not personally for you, and not meaning you, but for others, all those who, due to their shortsightedness, think that Wounds will balance something there (which is complete nonsense). And I didn't seem to stoop to insulting you, you don't need this slander to make yourself so holy against the background of it.
  • JadawinKhanidiJadawinKhanidi Registered Users Posts: 1,530
    Sound is overall terrible in this game. Literally every voiceover is cringe and the battle sound effects are at best unremarkable, while most of them are plain annoying. Game gets maybe a 20% rating in sound, by far its worst part quality-wise.
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